Sledgeweb's Lost ... Stuff Forum

Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 6 => Episode 6x14 => Topic started by: trodge on May 12, 2010, 12:22:32 AM

Title: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: trodge on May 12, 2010, 12:22:32 AM
For the longest time we thought Ben had all the answers, turns out he was a nobody in the grand scheme of the story.

Then we thought Richard had the answers since he'd been around foooorever...nope, just a guy that was granted a wish by a magical genie.

SO, then we learn of Jacob and he must have all the answers, well ah crap if he doesn't go and get himself killed.

So tonight we then meet Jacob's "mother" and before we can get what we need out of her, boom, she gets killed...

We've only got 3.5 hours left here and I'm starting to worry and each week I start to think that while this is one my favorite shows of all time.  The first four seasons were a waste of my time as it relates to the main plot.  I love lost, but Dharma and the others where a HUGE part of this show for the longest time.  And now, they really mean nothing.

I posted on my Facebook, do you remember when Lost was a show about a plane crash and it's victims...LOL

I've started to really get ready to not get what I really want out of the final, but I'm really starting to get worried.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: jugdish on May 12, 2010, 12:25:31 AM
I agree with you 100%. You stated this all very well.
This episode needed to give us clairity and direction towards the final. Now it is more confusing then ever.
I am very concerned that we are going to be left with a very inconclusive finish with way more questions than answers.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: ozman776 on May 12, 2010, 12:29:45 AM
seems like the only people cheering for the show are the ones whove looked at spoliers and told us NOT TO WORRY all will work out.... guess ill go find the spoilers now cause i cant see how you answer the ALT timeline and explain MIB's need to be kept prisoner in 2 episodes...

Lost has jumped the darhma shark tonight
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: jugdish on May 12, 2010, 12:32:19 AM
I am holding out some hope that they pull it all off!!
If they don't the shark was jumped at the frozen donkey wheel. That is when it got weird.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: ozman776 on May 12, 2010, 12:34:47 AM
im thinking along the same lines as the author of the thread.... i jumped on this show when it was about a plane crash.... did we really need time travelling and split universes and RULES???? why lost why???
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: Creflo on May 12, 2010, 12:35:58 AM
You have another episode AND a 2.5 hour movie to fill us in.  I feel like Jacob got his own episode which took him from birth until the time he was alone with The Island and the Game is afoot.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: jugdish on May 12, 2010, 12:36:14 AM
I really want the whole Dharma involvement explained. Dharma was a focus for a long time. How do the fit into the overall story.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: trodge on May 12, 2010, 12:36:42 AM
I think what's really making me nervous is, the questions that got brought up before tonights episode you could kinda see how they would be brought up again to be answered.

After tonight's episode I just don't see how some of tonights questions could be answered.  Knowing where we are in the Lostie timeline, I just don't see how some of these conversations would come up.

How did the mother get there.
Was the mother making up the rules as she went?
If she didn't make them up, who told her the rules.
Was she the island's first inhabitant.
How'd she get there.
What is the light.
How did the light turn the body of a man into a mechincal sounding, soul scanning cloud of smoke?

I know we won't get all the answers, but what the island is, is kind of a big one.  They tried telling us in Ab Aterno it is was the cork to keep MIB in place.  But after tonight, I just don't see how that makes sense.  The island was special before Jacob's brother became MIB.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: jugdish on May 12, 2010, 12:38:36 AM
I think what's really making me nervous is, the questions that got brought up before tonights episode you could kinda see how they would be brought up again to be answered.

After tonight's episode I just don't see how some of tonights questions could be answered.  Knowing where we are in the Lostie timeline, I just don't see how some of these conversations would come up.

How did the mother get there.
Was the mother making up the rules as she went?
If she didn't make them up, who told her the rules.
Was she the island's first inhabitant.
How'd she get there.
What is the light.
How did the light turn the body of a man into a mechincal sounding, soul scanning cloud of smoke?

I know we won't get all the answers, but what the island is, is kind of a big one.  They tried telling us in Ab Aterno it is was the cork to keep MIB in place.  But after tonight, I just don't see how that makes sense.  The island was special before Jacob's brother became MIB.
You guys a writing my thoughts way better than I am, but I agree 100% again here. Great post.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: ozman776 on May 12, 2010, 12:40:04 AM
dharma was what made the show seem believable... i was always under the assumption that they made smokey... jacob was a figment of bens imagination and that the island was in an underwater world accessible by sub or a minuscule window 35000 feet in the air....
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: trodge on May 12, 2010, 12:41:46 AM
I really want the whole Dharma involvement explained. Dharma was a focus for a long time. How do the fit into the overall story.

I was really hoping for that tonight...

I was thinking that we'd meet the crazy mother, see the start of the game, see how MIB was born, the temple being built, the foot statue being built...I thought we'd see Alvar Hanso or The Degroots showing up to the isand and meeting Jacob and working out some sort of agreement...I want to see the time from when Richard was "recruited" by Jacob to when other people started to arrive and "the others" came together...

But after reading this all back, does it really matter to the main story of this island is a game between two brothers?  Not really and that kinda annoys me.

I still love Lost, I think it's one of the most complex, clever shows ever.  But there better be some serious extra's on the season 6 dvd's...LOL!
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: Maxor127 on May 12, 2010, 01:16:55 AM
I'm not bothered by it.  In the end, it was interesting while it lasted.  Sometimes you need to just accept things without knowing every single detail.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: CastawayCayley on May 12, 2010, 01:19:54 AM
Ha! Jimmy Kimmel just said that he thought it was odd Lost would devote the 3rd from the last episode ever to two characters we barely know. He pointed out it was the equivalent of Seinfeld devoting a whole episode at the end of their run to the Soup Nazi.


ETA: If you can, find a clip of this. He also had a fake ad featuring Jacob and "Brother" made just for Kimmel's show.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: trodge on May 12, 2010, 01:30:34 AM
I'm not bothered by it.  In the end, it was interesting while it lasted.  Sometimes you need to just accept things without knowing every single detail.

And I hear what you're saying and I just read the questions yet to be answered post in the Season 6 main page.  For most of them in there, they're really not important, there nice to knows imo.  But if you can't explain to me how Dharma started and how it got there after it was the main part of this show for 3 seasons.  That's no small detail.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: norville on May 12, 2010, 01:36:12 AM
I'll just point out something you probably all noticed watching the show... Jacob's "Mom" summed up the entire LOST experience very aptly when she said (to Jacob's real mom), in effect, "Answering any question you could possibly ask will only raise more questions.  You should rest."  I think the writers were summing up the show in that one line.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: Point Place WI on May 12, 2010, 01:36:27 AM
I'm not bothered by it.  In the end, it was interesting while it lasted.  Sometimes you need to just accept things without knowing every single detail.

My thoughts:

"You can polish a turd but it's still a piece of crap!"

An old quote from  the movie "Stand by Me"
GORDIE: Wagon Train's a really cool show. But did you ever notice that they never get anywhere? They just keep wagon training.

You could insert Lost in place of Wagon Train

I also wanted to say that my all time shark jumping moment is still "Flashes before your Eyes".  If any of you ever go back to Season 1 & 2 it was just an amazing show.  Great Cliff hangers with a double homicide. Then Season 3 ruined it all followed by a 4th and 5th compilation of mediocre television.  Now Season six just a whole bunch of hopping around the jungle and 3.5 hours left to say goodbye and good luck.  

I can except the fact that writers strikes = poor directing, decision making, and credibility

Laughing all the way to the bank and a Season 6 DVD with Extras and Answers which actually were just a ploy to buy a real neat 3D super special version of Sawyer Specs!  
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: ozman776 on May 12, 2010, 01:39:14 AM
dont forget the "movie deal".... they wont have to split the BUCKS with abc either
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: Maxor127 on May 12, 2010, 01:44:38 AM
I'm not bothered by it.  In the end, it was interesting while it lasted.  Sometimes you need to just accept things without knowing every single detail.

And I hear what you're saying and I just read the questions yet to be answered post in the Season 6 main page.  For most of them in there, they're really not important, there nice to knows imo.  But if you can't explain to me how Dharma started and how it got there after it was the main part of this show for 3 seasons.  That's no small detail.
I think the Dharma stuff can be inferred adequately.  There's a huge amount of info about Dharma and the Hanso Foundation floating around including two ARGs, and at least 2 full seasons devoted to them.  It's not like they're inconsequential now.  They are tied into the story.  Just because you can probably read a book's beginning and skip to the end doesn't mean the middle part is worthless.  In fact, I'm glad Dharma and Hanso aren't the core of the story.  Mystical answers are more interesting the pseudo-science answers.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: louisianagirl76l on May 12, 2010, 01:45:50 AM
I'll just point out something you probably all noticed watching the show... Jacob's "Mom" summed up the entire LOST experience very aptly when she said (to Jacob's real mom), in effect, "Answering any question you could possibly ask will only raise more questions.  You should rest."  I think the writers were summing up the show in that one line.

Yeah I think it's there way of saying "look take what we give you and get over it. We're too freakin' lazy to try and tie up all the loose ends we created" Kinda like that rug ol crazy momma/Jacob were working on...It's just a big tangly mess.

Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: on the island on May 12, 2010, 02:15:14 AM
I'm not bothered by it.  In the end, it was interesting while it lasted.  Sometimes you need to just accept things without knowing every single detail.

And I hear what you're saying and I just read the questions yet to be answered post in the Season 6 main page.  For most of them in there, they're really not important, there nice to knows imo.  But if you can't explain to me how Dharma started and how it got there after it was the main part of this show for 3 seasons.  That's no small detail.
I think the Dharma stuff can be inferred adequately.  There's a huge amount of info about Dharma and the Hanso Foundation floating around including two ARGs, and at least 2 full seasons devoted to them.  It's not like they're inconsequential now.  They are tied into the story.  Just because you can probably read a book's beginning and skip to the end doesn't mean the middle part is worthless.  In fact, I'm glad Dharma and Hanso aren't the core of the story.  Mystical answers are more interesting the pseudo-science answers.

I guess the point is that if you showed someone new S1 to S6, but removed everything related to Dharma, I'm not sure the story would be any different.  Hard to imagine after it was a pivotal part of the show for so long.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: Sweet Old Lady on May 12, 2010, 03:19:10 AM
I said it in another thread, but I'll repeat it here.  Way back when, Darlton said that when we find out who Adam and Eve are it will prove that they knew where the story was going right from the start, but now that we know Adam is Brother and Eve is Mother it only proves that they had no idea how it would end.  The proof for this is that when Jack found the two skeletons in the cave they were wearng fairly modern clothing.  Mother and Brother were wearing very old home-spun clothes.  I don't expect much from the ending. 
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: WhatThe on May 12, 2010, 03:28:27 AM
I said it in another thread, but I'll repeat it here.  Way back when, Darlton said that when we find out who Adam and Eve are it will prove that they knew where the story was going right from the start, but now that we know Adam is Brother and Eve is Mother it only proves that they had no idea how it would end.  The proof for this is that when Jack found the two skeletons in the cave they were wearng fairly modern clothing.  Mother and Brother were wearing very old home-spun clothes.  I don't expect much from the ending. 

I thought of that, too...well, I thought about the fact that Jack said it would take "40 to 50 years for clothes to deteriorate to this level" (or words to that effect). I'm thinking that Adam and Eve died back in 1950 or something, maybe around the time Locke and the rest time traveled back to 1955, saw Richard and saw Jughead. But, noooo lol. I guess Jack's assessment of how long the clothing deteriorated was way off the mark. That's a weak explanation, though.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: Maxor127 on May 12, 2010, 03:30:00 AM
Once again, looking at the Lostpedia pic of Adam and Eve, I barely see any clothes on them except for maybe a few unidentifiable tatters.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: WhatThe on May 12, 2010, 03:32:43 AM
To be more specific:

[Shot of skeleton.]

KATE: Who is he. How'd he get here?

JACK: I can't exactly perform an autopsy but there doesn't seem to be any major trauma to the bones. There's another one over here. Someone laid them to rest here.

KATE: Who?

JACK: I don't know.

KATE: Where would they come from?

JACK: Didn't you guys shoot a polar bear last week?

KATE: Yeah.

JACK: Where'd that come from?

KATE: Any idea how long they've been here?

JACK: Long. It takes 40 or 50 years for clothing to degrade like this.



Uh lol. 40 to 50 years? Try 400 to 500. No, try 4,000 to 5,000, maybe. Who knows. But "40 to 50 years" was CLEARLY off the mark in a big way if "Adam and Eve" were really Jacob's mom and brother.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: CaseyMac on May 12, 2010, 03:41:27 AM
Man, if you guys are still thinking about Dharma at this point, the show has passed you by. We got all we are going to get about Dharma last season. We are so beyond some research group in the 1970's at this point in the show. I mean, you might as well be asking what the in-flight movie was for Oceanic 815. Dharma hasn't been mentioned once this season. They are not that important. They were just studying the Island.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: Maxor127 on May 12, 2010, 03:45:34 AM
To be more specific:
To be more specific:

[Shot of skeleton.]

KATE: Who is he. How'd he get here?

JACK: I can't exactly perform an autopsy but there doesn't seem to be any major trauma to the bones. There's another one over here. Someone laid them to rest here.

KATE: Who?

JACK: I don't know.

KATE: Where would they come from?

JACK: Didn't you guys shoot a polar bear last week?

KATE: Yeah.

JACK: Where'd that come from?

KATE: Any idea how long they've been here?

JACK: Long. It takes 40 or 50 years for clothing to degrade like this.



Uh lol. 40 to 50 years? Try 400 to 500. No, try 4,000 to 5,000, maybe. Who knows. But "40 to 50 years" was CLEARLY off the mark in a big way if "Adam and Eve" were really Jacob's mom and brother.
[Shot of skeleton.]

KATE: Who is he. How'd he get here?

JACK: I can't exactly perform an autopsy but there doesn't seem to be any major trauma to the bones. There's another one over here. Someone laid them to rest here.

KATE: Who?

JACK: I don't know.

KATE: Where would they come from?

JACK: Didn't you guys shoot a polar bear last week?

KATE: Yeah.

JACK: Where'd that come from?

KATE: Any idea how long they've been here?

JACK: Long. It takes 40 or 50 years for clothing to degrade like this.



Uh lol. 40 to 50 years? Try 400 to 500. No, try 4,000 to 5,000, maybe. Who knows. But "40 to 50 years" was CLEARLY off the mark in a big way if "Adam and Eve" were really Jacob's mom and brother.
You're applying the science and logic to a show about a smoke monster, ghosts, and people who don't die?
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: WhatThe on May 12, 2010, 03:59:47 AM
You're applying the science and logic to a show about a smoke monster, ghosts, and people who don't die?

No, the show's writers did when they included that line in the script for Jack to tell the audience.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: RM on May 12, 2010, 04:03:42 AM
It's not the age of Adam and Eve that bothers me.

What bothers me is that their "proof that we knew where we were going all along" is two characters, one of whom is introduced at the end of Season 5 and the other one at the end of Season 6.  That's certainly no proof.  "Bad Twin" is better proof than Adam and Eve.  That was a complete letdown.

------

I have always been afraid that they couldn't deliver an ending that was worthy of the build-up they've created for 6 years.  This reveal makes me feel my fears were warranted.

Look, give them credit for attempting (and mostly succeeding) at writing a show of this much complexity to stand up to the scrutiny of a cult Internet following.  But the "origin of Jacob and MIB" was just as lame as the "origin of Richard".

"How do you know these things?"
"Because I'm special."
That's about as much explanation as we're going to get, I fear.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: WhatThe on May 12, 2010, 04:05:58 AM
Man, if you guys are still thinking about Dharma at this point, the show has passed you by. We got all we are going to get about Dharma last season. We are so beyond some research group in the 1970's at this point in the show. I mean, you might as well be asking what the in-flight movie was for Oceanic 815. Dharma hasn't been mentioned once this season. They are not that important. They were just studying the Island.

That's the problem. The show spent several seasons making it seem as if Dharma WAS important. You can't get why it bothers people that the show seems to now be saying "Nevermind" like Emily Litella from Saturday Night Live? lol

(http://shessel.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/emily-litella11.jpg)
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: WhatThe on May 12, 2010, 04:11:43 AM
It's not the age of Adam and Eve that bothers me.

What bothers me is that their "proof that we knew where we were going all along" is two characters, one of whom is introduced at the end of Season 5 and the other one at the end of Season 6.  That's certainly no proof.  "Bad Twin" is better proof than Adam and Eve.  That was a complete letdown.

To me, the age of Adam and Eve kinda point to them NOT knowing "all along" where they were going, though. If they DID know all along that Adam and Eve would end up being Jacob's mother and brother that dies centuries ago, they wouldn't have had Jack say the line about the clothing taking "40 to 50 years to degrade". That makes it seem as if they had someone else in mind at the time, but changed it later on.

The ONLY way they can save themselves on this issue is by bringing up the ol' "Time works differently here on the island" stuff that Daniel said a few seasons ago lol...


Quote
I have always been afraid that they couldn't deliver an ending that was worthy of the build-up they've created for 6 years.  This reveal makes me feel my fears were warranted.

Look, give them credit for attempting (and mostly succeeding) at writing a show of this much complexity to stand up to the scrutiny of a cult Internet following.  But the "origin of Jacob and MIB" was just as lame as the "origin of Richard".

"How do you know these things?"
"Because I'm special."
That's about as much explanation as we're going to get, I fear.


Yeah, I agree, unfortunately. The whole "I'm special" stuff was an incredibly weak payoff.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: CaseyMac on May 12, 2010, 04:28:47 AM
Man, if you guys are still thinking about Dharma at this point, the show has passed you by. We got all we are going to get about Dharma last season. We are so beyond some research group in the 1970's at this point in the show. I mean, you might as well be asking what the in-flight movie was for Oceanic 815. Dharma hasn't been mentioned once this season. They are not that important. They were just studying the Island.

That's the problem. The show spent several seasons making it seem as if Dharma WAS important. You can't get why it bothers people that the show seems to now be saying "Nevermind" like Emily Litella from Saturday Night Live? lol


But they didn't say nevermind. Dharma was cool and all, but they weren't the biggest fish in the pond. It's more like, if you thought that Dharma was a big fish, well you ain't seen nothin yet. It's like the end of the movie The Abyss. When Ed Harris defuses the nuke and saves the day, thats a huge finale, but then, the alien ship rises out of the ocean and the movie raises the bar.

So Dharma was important, just not the most important.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: Maxor127 on May 12, 2010, 06:49:24 AM
You guys are being incredibly whiny.  Let's just agree that nothing would satisfy 90% of you.  They could've given MIB a name, and then people would complain "But what's the mom's name?"  And some of the complaints are so nitpicking.  Yeah Jack said the clothing looked only about 40-50 years.  Jack was apparently wrong, end of story.  It proves nothing except that you lack the imagination to accept the answers given to you.  If you think Adam and Eve were meant to be someone else and can tie it to some story about the black and white stones and 50-year-old degraded clothing, then I'd like to hear it.

People seem to be making the mistake of thinking this show is about Jacob/MIB and the mythology.  They've said all along that it's about the characters and their journey.  You might believe you could just see the beginning and end and skip the middle, but then you miss out on all of the symbolism and themes and connections.  And if you really hate the show that much and you're unsatisfied by the answers, then too bad.  You wasted six years of your life.  Move on.

I for one thought the acting was fine and the episode delivered what I expected, which was showing the relationship between Jacob and MIB and the origin of their feud.  All I expect is for the show to tell the story that they intended, and any mysteries they leave unanswered aren't important to understanding the story.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: jugdish on May 12, 2010, 07:15:59 AM
You guys are being incredibly whiny.  Let's just agree that nothing would satisfy 90% of you.  They could've given MIB a name, and then people would complain "But what's the mom's name?"  And some of the complaints are so nitpicking.  Yeah Jack said the clothing looked only about 40-50 years.  Jack was apparently wrong, end of story.  It proves nothing except that you lack the imagination to accept the answers given to you.  If you think Adam and Eve were meant to be someone else and can tie it to some story about the black and white stones and 50-year-old degraded clothing, then I'd like to hear it.

People seem to be making the mistake of thinking this show is about Jacob/MIB and the mythology.  They've said all along that it's about the characters and their journey.  You might believe you could just see the beginning and end and skip the middle, but then you miss out on all of the symbolism and themes and connections.  And if you really hate the show that much and you're unsatisfied by the answers, then too bad.  You wasted six years of your life.  Move on.

I for one thought the acting was fine and the episode delivered what I expected, which was showing the relationship between Jacob and MIB and the origin of their feud.  All I expect is for the show to tell the story that they intended, and any mysteries they leave unanswered aren't important to understanding the story.
You can always count on one post like this trying to talk down to the rest of us. If people don't like an episode of Lost then we are whiny and not smart enough to understand the big picture. This episode was poorly written and not very well acted. It skipped big parts of the over all mystery and produced more questions than answers. This is not acceptable with this the show ending in two eps.
After investing this much time and energy into this show, we deserve better than this ep. Is it the end of the world no. But it is a disappointment.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: Sweet Old Lady on May 12, 2010, 07:48:18 AM
THANK YOU JUGGY!  You took the words right out of my mouth. 
The point I was trying to make about the clothing is that it shows the writers were just making it up as they went along.  They really didn't have a plan from the beginning.  That's my view anyway.  And my fear.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: CastawayCayley on May 12, 2010, 08:15:39 AM
I agree with Juggy and SOL. My guess is that they are just making it up as they go along and when it came down to figuring out who were Adam and Eve they couldn't have it be Rose and Bernard, Jack and Kate, or anyone else we know because most of us had guessed them long ago. They pulled this story out of their butts so they could feel original.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: Maxor127 on May 12, 2010, 09:19:58 AM
You guys are being incredibly whiny.  Let's just agree that nothing would satisfy 90% of you.  They could've given MIB a name, and then people would complain "But what's the mom's name?"  And some of the complaints are so nitpicking.  Yeah Jack said the clothing looked only about 40-50 years.  Jack was apparently wrong, end of story.  It proves nothing except that you lack the imagination to accept the answers given to you.  If you think Adam and Eve were meant to be someone else and can tie it to some story about the black and white stones and 50-year-old degraded clothing, then I'd like to hear it.

People seem to be making the mistake of thinking this show is about Jacob/MIB and the mythology.  They've said all along that it's about the characters and their journey.  You might believe you could just see the beginning and end and skip the middle, but then you miss out on all of the symbolism and themes and connections.  And if you really hate the show that much and you're unsatisfied by the answers, then too bad.  You wasted six years of your life.  Move on.

I for one thought the acting was fine and the episode delivered what I expected, which was showing the relationship between Jacob and MIB and the origin of their feud.  All I expect is for the show to tell the story that they intended, and any mysteries they leave unanswered aren't important to understanding the story.
You can always count on one post like this trying to talk down to the rest of us. If people don't like an episode of Lost then we are whiny and not smart enough to understand the big picture. This episode was poorly written and not very well acted. It skipped big parts of the over all mystery and produced more questions than answers. This is not acceptable with this the show ending in two eps.
After investing this much time and energy into this show, we deserve better than this ep. Is it the end of the world no. But it is a disappointment.
I didn't think I was talking down.  Maybe I'm just naturally superior, and don't realize it and so it seems that I'm talking down.  I'm just calling it like I see it.  You guys are whining.  Stating opinions like they're facts is what really bugs me.  And criticizing the acting is the last straw for me with these complaints.  I thought the acting was fine.  People are just getting mad because the show isn't going how they wanted or expected.  I'm glad Adam and Eve weren't what people expected.  I'd probably be whining too if it turned out they were Jack and Kate or Rose and Bernard.  Just accept that your expectations were too high.  Seriously, what did you expect from this episode?  About the only complaint I agree with is the flashback to Jack and Kate was unnecessary.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: grizn0 on May 12, 2010, 10:42:46 AM
I tend to agree that Dharma was very important in telling the stories of our Losties. Dharma played a HUGE part in their story. And remember that this is the story of them not Jacob and MIB's game. Well, it is cause they are part of the game, but you know what I mean. But, I will agree with the fact that this episode did let me down. But only for the fact that Jacob's image has completely changed for me. Up until last night I really thought he was representing good. But last night just made him look like a d*ck and made me feel more for MIB. I'm almost inclined to side with Locke now. Kill 'em all.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: Suzanne4au2 on May 12, 2010, 10:51:30 AM
Jacob reminded me of Luke in A New Hope. He spent most of the episode whining. Different look for him.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: BobBX542 on May 12, 2010, 11:15:01 AM
Wow, people all sorts of fired up. Well, I personally thought that whoever that woman was did a terrible job acting like, anything. As for everyone else in the show, they were fine. I'm actually kind of interested in what all the people who want to know more about Dharma are looking for?? I mean, I thought everything we have been told kind of did a really good job at just wrapping them up. They were scientists that came to the island to study the strange effects of the island, they got in over their heads with the natives, and it all fell apart. I mean, aside from finding out how they even knew about the island in the first place, I don't see what else there is to be curious about regarding Dharma.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: Point Place WI on May 12, 2010, 11:26:33 AM
I just feel some people like to play the devils advocate.....
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: Suzanne4au2 on May 12, 2010, 11:28:03 AM
I just feel some people like to play the devils advocate.....
I gotta tell you! You made such a good comment last night in chat about the well. Why did they make it a well, why not just make some steps to go down there lol  ;D
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: lost4ever on May 12, 2010, 11:53:33 AM
Wow, people all sorts of fired up. Well, I personally thought that whoever that woman was did a terrible job acting like, anything. As for everyone else in the show, they were fine. I'm actually kind of interested in what all the people who want to know more about Dharma are looking for?? I mean, I thought everything we have been told kind of did a really good job at just wrapping them up. They were scientists that came to the island to study the strange effects of the island, they got in over their heads with the natives, and it all fell apart. I mean, aside from finding out how they even knew about the island in the first place, I don't see what else there is to be curious about regarding Dharma.


This is it exactly for me!! Also remember when Jacob said " you brought them here didnt you" it was several seasons finales ago. I think this could also be used to explain Dharma.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 12, 2010, 12:03:42 PM
I agree with Juggy and SOL. My guess is that they are just making it up as they go along and when it came down to figuring out who were Adam and Eve they couldn't have it be Rose and Bernard, Jack and Kate, or anyone else we know because most of us had guessed them long ago. They pulled this story out of their butts so they could feel original.

Here's where I disagree with this idea. The Stones they found there. I can't think of a single story arc that gives us Rose and Bernard lying in the cave with the stones holding significance. Jack and Kate I see a little better, but that story arc would make one of them the dark stone and that would have changed the whole story. The only way they could prove anything completely to 90% of the fans would be to show a NEW scene starring young Walt at this late a stage.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: BobBX542 on May 12, 2010, 12:04:19 PM
Wow, people all sorts of fired up. Well, I personally thought that whoever that woman was did a terrible job acting like, anything. As for everyone else in the show, they were fine. I'm actually kind of interested in what all the people who want to know more about Dharma are looking for?? I mean, I thought everything we have been told kind of did a really good job at just wrapping them up. They were scientists that came to the island to study the strange effects of the island, they got in over their heads with the natives, and it all fell apart. I mean, aside from finding out how they even knew about the island in the first place, I don't see what else there is to be curious about regarding Dharma.


This is it exactly for me!! Also remember when Jacob said " you brought them here didnt you" it was several seasons finales ago. I think this could also be used to explain Dharma.

MiB said it, but yeah, exactly. IT seems that no one gets there with out Jacob allowing it. As for why he let the army and what have you on the island, ummmm, maybe he got bored and wanted to watch an action movie or something. LOL
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: lostandfree on May 12, 2010, 12:27:30 PM
You guys are being incredibly whiny.  Let's just agree that nothing would satisfy 90% of you.  They could've given MIB a name, and then people would complain "But what's the mom's name?"  And some of the complaints are so nitpicking.  Yeah Jack said the clothing looked only about 40-50 years.  Jack was apparently wrong, end of story.  It proves nothing except that you lack the imagination to accept the answers given to you.  If you think Adam and Eve were meant to be someone else and can tie it to some story about the black and white stones and 50-year-old degraded clothing, then I'd like to hear it.

People seem to be making the mistake of thinking this show is about Jacob/MIB and the mythology.  They've said all along that it's about the characters and their journey.  You might believe you could just see the beginning and end and skip the middle, but then you miss out on all of the symbolism and themes and connections.  And if you really hate the show that much and you're unsatisfied by the answers, then too bad.  You wasted six years of your life.  Move on.

I for one thought the acting was fine and the episode delivered what I expected, which was showing the relationship between Jacob and MIB and the origin of their feud.  All I expect is for the show to tell the story that they intended, and any mysteries they leave unanswered aren't important to understanding the story.
You can always count on one post like this trying to talk down to the rest of us. If people don't like an episode of Lost then we are whiny and not smart enough to understand the big picture. This episode was poorly written and not very well acted. It skipped big parts of the over all mystery and produced more questions than answers. This is not acceptable with this the show ending in two eps.
After investing this much time and energy into this show, we deserve better than this ep. Is it the end of the world no. But it is a disappointment.
I didn't think I was talking down.  Maybe I'm just naturally superior, and don't realize it and so it seems that I'm talking down.  I'm just calling it like I see it.  You guys are whining.  Stating opinions like they're facts is what really bugs me.  And criticizing the acting is the last straw for me with these complaints.  I thought the acting was fine.  People are just getting mad because the show isn't going how they wanted or expected.  I'm glad Adam and Eve weren't what people expected.  I'd probably be whining too if it turned out they were Jack and Kate or Rose and Bernard.  Just accept that your expectations were too high.  Seriously, what did you expect from this episode?  About the only complaint I agree with is the flashback to Jack and Kate was unnecessary.

I think I'm going to agree with Maxor.  There has been a lot of whining this season.  We just have a difference of opinion here, no one is talking down.  Plenty of you are disappointed but a lot of you are not disappointed.  I'm guessing the disappointed ones are just being more vocal about it.  I though the episode was fine and I'm guessing that not all of my questions will be answered, but I will never view this as a waste of six years of my life.  LOST is and always will be the greatest tv show ever made no matter how it ends.  But that's my opinion.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: lovinlost on May 12, 2010, 12:30:29 PM
I'll just point out something you probably all noticed watching the show... Jacob's "Mom" summed up the entire LOST experience very aptly when she said (to Jacob's real mom), in effect, "Answering any question you could possibly ask will only raise more questions.  You should rest."  I think the writers were summing up the show in that one line.

I got the very same impression when I saw that clip on abc.com's sneak peeks.  It was like the were speaking directly to us, warning us that we are NOT going to get all the answers.  AND, they actually said this IRL. :)
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: MachThree on May 12, 2010, 12:37:34 PM
I'll just point out something you probably all noticed watching the show... Jacob's "Mom" summed up the entire LOST experience very aptly when she said (to Jacob's real mom), in effect, "Answering any question you could possibly ask will only raise more questions.  You should rest."  I think the writers were summing up the show in that one line.
I think you are right, that's exactly what Darlton is saying - and it sucks.  Its also horribly unfair of them.

Basically, they are saying "Don't ask too many questions", when the first several years of the show were designed, by them,  precisely to get us all to ask tons and tons of questions in anticipation that they'd be answered.  Bait and switch.  Its unbelievably two-faced of them, but worse than that, its like not only did they sucker us, but now they are arrogantly talking down to us after having suckered us.  The quote to me reads more like they're saying to us "Answering any question you could possibly ask will only raise more questions.  You should rest, you foolish idiots!"  

Hell, they did it in a podcast/interview a week or two ago when one of them said something like "When a child starts asking you questions, it only begets more questions from the child.  Eventually, you say 'Oh, look!  A Chuck E. Cheese!'"

Tell us not to ask to many questions at the beginning of the show, not at the end.  Don't treat us like we're morons because we reacted to the show exactly how you wanted us to react.      

Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: CastawayCayley on May 12, 2010, 12:55:51 PM
I agree with Juggy and SOL. My guess is that they are just making it up as they go along and when it came down to figuring out who were Adam and Eve they couldn't have it be Rose and Bernard, Jack and Kate, or anyone else we know because most of us had guessed them long ago. They pulled this story out of their butts so they could feel original.

Here's where I disagree with this idea. The Stones they found there. I can't think of a single story arc that gives us Rose and Bernard lying in the cave with the stones holding significance. Jack and Kate I see a little better, but that story arc would make one of them the dark stone and that would have changed the whole story. The only way they could prove anything completely to 90% of the fans would be to show a NEW scene starring young Walt at this late a stage.

They made this story up. If they wanted it to be Rose and Bernard they would have written an episode where they had those stones and it would make as much sense as anything else.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 12, 2010, 01:01:36 PM
Right but they showed the stones in one of the very first episodes BEFORE the skeletons. The Stones had significance before the skeletons did, they were not just an afterthought. By making the Skeletons Rose and Bernard would have devalued the significance of the Light and Dark symbolism which is being further played out in Jacob and MiB. Just having Rose and Bernard find the stones and hold them for whatever significance they found in them. Sorry, but if they just turned out to be two side players from the series I would have been greatly disappointed.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: Sweet Old Lady on May 12, 2010, 01:29:09 PM
The stones were in Desmond's possession in one of his flashbacks where he was painting Penny's apartment.  It could have been Des and Penny.  I don't remember seeing the stones before the skeletons were found.  I remember seeing the black and white badkgammon pieces, but those weren't the same stones. 
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 12, 2010, 01:33:33 PM
Wow, people all sorts of fired up. Well, I personally thought that whoever that woman was did a terrible job acting like, anything. As for everyone else in the show, they were fine. I'm actually kind of interested in what all the people who want to know more about Dharma are looking for?? I mean, I thought everything we have been told kind of did a really good job at just wrapping them up. They were scientists that came to the island to study the strange effects of the island, they got in over their heads with the natives, and it all fell apart. I mean, aside from finding out how they even knew about the island in the first place, I don't see what else there is to be curious about regarding Dharma.
The woman was played by Tony and Emmy winner several times Allison Janney who was a major cast member on The West Wing and of late has beee\n added to In Plain Sight. She did what she could with the role she was given.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 12, 2010, 01:36:25 PM
Once Ben appeared and was to only scheduled to be in 3 episodes, then became a major part of the story I knew then they were making it up as they went along. Their deal with Disney to spread it out for a few more years but only 16 epsiodes was another giant sign they had no ideawhere to go. The Sideways episodes were padding.  We have been suckered.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: BobBX542 on May 12, 2010, 01:38:10 PM
Wow, people all sorts of fired up. Well, I personally thought that whoever that woman was did a terrible job acting like, anything. As for everyone else in the show, they were fine. I'm actually kind of interested in what all the people who want to know more about Dharma are looking for?? I mean, I thought everything we have been told kind of did a really good job at just wrapping them up. They were scientists that came to the island to study the strange effects of the island, they got in over their heads with the natives, and it all fell apart. I mean, aside from finding out how they even knew about the island in the first place, I don't see what else there is to be curious about regarding Dharma.
The woman was played by Tony and Emmy winner several times Allison Janney who was a major cast member on The West Wing and of late has beee\n added to In Plain Sight. She did what she could with the role she was given.

And?? If that was the best she could do with the role, then her best is awful.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: MachThree on May 12, 2010, 01:40:15 PM
Once Ben appeared and was to only scheduled to be in 3 episodes, then became a major part of the story I knew then they were making it up as they went along. Their deal with Disney to spread it out for a few more years but only 16 epsiodes was another giant sign they had no ideawhere to go. The Sideways episodes were padding.  We have been suckered.
I'm not so sure about that.  Darlton has said (and I don't think its inconsistent with anything else we know) that there was going to be a leader of the others introduced eventually, and they thought it could be "Henry Gale" if the character worked.  When Emerson turned out to be so great, they decided it'd be him. 
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: zeekloveslost on May 12, 2010, 01:56:27 PM
The bad feelings about what the writers did to the audience makes me wonder: Will you completely rule out another series done by these creatives?  Will you look at their upcoming offerings and say "They're just going to jerk us around. I'd rather not get invested."? 
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: CastawayCayley on May 12, 2010, 01:56:45 PM
Right but they showed the stones in one of the very first episodes BEFORE the skeletons. The Stones had significance before the skeletons did, they were not just an afterthought. By making the Skeletons Rose and Bernard would have devalued the significance of the Light and Dark symbolism which is being further played out in Jacob and MiB. Just having Rose and Bernard find the stones and hold them for whatever significance they found in them. Sorry, but if they just turned out to be two side players from the series I would have been greatly disappointed.

For the record I'm not saying I think it should have been Rose and Bernard, I use them as an example of someone the fans were guessing at. But as an aside I'm sure as heck waaaay more invested in those characters than I am with Crazy Allison Janney....

Remember back in Seasons 2 and 3 when the plot lines were going in a thousand different directions, new cast members were being added willy nilly and we got bunches of story arcs? It was insane. Then they finally announced that they were going to have a finite number of episodes and end it on a specific date. Once they decided that the episodes tightened up, plot lines disappeared and one major story arc began to be developed more strongly. That tells me that because they had no idea in the early days how long the show would go on for,  they were trying to give themselves wiggle room. If the series went for 10 seasons they couldn't answer all the questions early, and they also couldn't keep people interested in one mystery for 10 years. So they introduced multiple mysteries.

They could have sent this story any way they wanted to at that turning point. When they started dabbling in time travel people started hypothesizing that the skeletons were Losties. ESPECIALLY since Jack said "40-50 years old." That's a lot closer to the 30 yrs back they time traveled than the 2,000* yrs ago Mother and Brother were placed there.

We're talking about 2 skeletons, a black stone and a white stone in a cave. That is so vague. The battle between good and evil is the most used story line ever. Black and white signifying good and evil is a given. If you gave 100 novelists this premise you would get 100 different stories from that. They purposely gave themselves something they could easily adapt to any ideas they would have down the line.

The black and white stones we saw before the skeletons were backgammon pieces (if I am following you on that). Again, Black and White are basic ideas: Symbology 101. Could have gone in a gazillion directions with that.

Finally, my tell tale clue that they didn't necessarily plan on going with the 2,000 yr old crazy mama story from the get go? Jack and the 40-50 yrs old assessment yet again. Why not have him say, "There's no way to tell" when asked how long they had been there if they already knew it would be two millennia. They wrote themselves into the corner the same way they did when they had dynamite on a ship older than dynamite.

Basically, all I'm saying is that I personally don't believe that they knew the end that we are seeing now was exactly as they envisioned it six yrs ago. If it is, and I don't know how they could prove it with out a sealed envelope dated in 2004 containing this script, then I feel they handled it awkwardly.




*I mentioned elsewhere that I was listening to Jorge Garcia's podcast. His script said specifically that 2,000 yrs had passed. Until TPTB say otherwise, I'm going with that.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: CaseyMac on May 12, 2010, 02:24:15 PM
The critics here seem to be squabbling about details. Nothing more. People are saying we arn't getting enough explaination, I keep thinking back to the Star Wars prequels where they talked about stupid midichlorians being the science behind the Force. It really took the whole magic away from the essence of the Force. It is a perfect example of how over explaining the details actually makes the story worse.

For example, if 'Mother' would have said "The cave is filled with this mineral called unobtainium which has such and such scientific properties." Would that make the story better or worse? It's like the Pulp Fiction brief case. Not saying exactly what it is puts it into the relm of our own imaginations which are infinitely more vast.

Also, anybody that is saying "the acting was bad" really needs to explain why you say that. What was bad about it? Because it really just sounds like sour grapes to me. For example, the scene with Mother and MIB in the well was a beautifully acted scene with really intense emotion, but not over the top. There was alot more going on than what was being said in the lines. You knew that 'Mother' was going to do something she didn't want to, but had to do, even though it would break her heart. That was done without a word. Not just good acting, but great acting.

Finally, the Adam & Eve reveal....if that disappointed you that much, well it sucks to be you. I'm glad it wasn't something easily predictable. When has LOST ever been predictable? Also, I don't think they are "making it up as they go". Obviously, they didn't have every detail worked out years ago, but the major plot movements have clearly been worked out....case in point, The Bad Twin.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: MachThree on May 12, 2010, 02:27:24 PM
The critics here seem to be squabbling about details. Nothing more. People are saying we arn't getting enough explaination, I keep thinking back to the Star Wars prequels where they talked about stupid midichlorians being the science behind the Force. It really took the whole magic away from the essence of the Force. It is a perfect example of how over explaining the details actually makes the story worse.
ements have clearly been worked out....case in point, The Bad Twin.

Yes, Starwars prequel is an example of overexplaining the details ruining the story.

Here, we are seeing the exact opposite.  Underexplaining the details is ruining the story.  I'd rather have no explanation than a poor, ambiguous one.  Maybe that's just me, I understand if other people feel differently.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: opgelost on May 12, 2010, 03:37:40 PM
MiB said it, but yeah, exactly. IT seems that no one gets there with out Jacob allowing it. As for why he let the army and what have you on the island, ummmm, maybe he got bored and wanted to watch an action movie or something. LOL

The army brought Jughead and Jughead did something. Even if I still don't know what.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: BobBX542 on May 12, 2010, 03:40:26 PM
The critics here seem to be squabbling about details. Nothing more. People are saying we arn't getting enough explaination, I keep thinking back to the Star Wars prequels where they talked about stupid midichlorians being the science behind the Force. It really took the whole magic away from the essence of the Force. It is a perfect example of how over explaining the details actually makes the story worse.

For example, if 'Mother' would have said "The cave is filled with this mineral called unobtainium which has such and such scientific properties." Would that make the story better or worse? It's like the Pulp Fiction brief case. Not saying exactly what it is puts it into the relm of our own imaginations which are infinitely more vast.

Also, anybody that is saying "the acting was bad" really needs to explain why you say that. What was bad about it? Because it really just sounds like sour grapes to me. For example, the scene with Mother and MIB in the well was a beautifully acted scene with really intense emotion, but not over the top. There was alot more going on than what was being said in the lines. You knew that 'Mother' was going to do something she didn't want to, but had to do, even though it would break her heart. That was done without a word. Not just good acting, but great acting.

Finally, the Adam & Eve reveal....if that disappointed you that much, well it sucks to be you. I'm glad it wasn't something easily predictable. When has LOST ever been predictable? Also, I don't think they are "making it up as they go". Obviously, they didn't have every detail worked out years ago, but the major plot movements have clearly been worked out....case in point, The Bad Twin.

First off left me say this, I'm not trying to stir an arguement, I just like the conversation. I think we have had the Star Wars/mitocrapian discussion before, and I'll say the same thing I've been saying about that for years. It's not that they over explained what The Force was, it was how they decided to over explain it. Just saying The Force is a magic felt through out the universe that runs through all living things is an AWESOME explanation. Now if Lucas would have told the back story about how some being with magic powers had turned into nothing but pure energy and was scattered through out the universe and shared the wisdom of the unknown with everything, that is over explaining it, but it's still awesome. Little microscopic creatures that live in your bloodstream or whatever (I on purpose forgot, because of how bad it was) is an overexplanation that blows donkeys.

I think knowing exactly what was in the cave could have helped the narrative a little more. I mean, when she says that it's warm, and life, and death, and bright, and it's inside all people, what is that?? Look at how much controversy it is bringing up with us. LOL I kind of want the answers just so we can have something definitive, and not have to start every sentence with "I am just guessing here", or "I assume". Don't misunderstand, I am totally happy with the episodes so far.

As for the acting, that is not me calling sour grapes, because I thought everyone else did a great job, even the kids. But that woman just did not pull it off. The way she spoke Latin sounded like the way I spoke German in high school. Poorly, and with no idea as to what I am saying. LOL It's the same problem I've had with Kate for 6 years, she's just terrible.

As for the Adam and Eve thing, I loved it.

MiB said it, but yeah, exactly. IT seems that no one gets there with out Jacob allowing it. As for why he let the army and what have you on the island, ummmm, maybe he got bored and wanted to watch an action movie or something. LOL

The army brought Jughead and Jughead did something. Even if I still don't know what.

Oh, I know that Opie, but I'm just curious as to why he would bring them there at all considering that he knows what could have happened.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on May 12, 2010, 03:43:06 PM
I'll just point out something you probably all noticed watching the show... Jacob's "Mom" summed up the entire LOST experience very aptly when she said (to Jacob's real mom), in effect, "Answering any question you could possibly ask will only raise more questions.  You should rest."  I think the writers were summing up the show in that one line.

I got the very same impression when I saw that clip on abc.com's sneak peeks.  It was like the were speaking directly to us, warning us that we are NOT going to get all the answers.  AND, they actually said this IRL. :)
On top of that, MIB talks about how because he is special he just knows how things work or how they are done.
I think this is a nudge from the writers for us as well.  We need to be more accepting of what is there.  Does it really matter HOW the Light ended up on the island?  Or is it more important to the characters and the show HOW the protection of the Light will work out?

Just to add- I thought them calling her "Mother" was a little to Psycho for my liking!
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: lostfan777 on May 12, 2010, 04:00:19 PM
I just want to add to the Adam and Eve mix that the producers recently stated that the story of Jacob and MIB came together after they introduced Ben and decided he would be taking orders from someone higher, Jacob and then that Jacob would have a nemesis, MIB.  All of this was discussed AFTER the first season, so there is no way that when they filmed the Adam and Eve scene they knew it was MIB and Mother.  Those characters hadn't even occurred to them yet.  With that said, I was satisfied with the reveal.  I wasn't too thrilled with the rest of this episode, though!

The only thing I can come up with then is the old theory (of mine and others) that the island is the Garden of Eden.  The light is the source of life (creation), death (punishment for sin) and rebirth (redemption).  MIB gave into his desire to use the power of the light (although the last push was ultimately Jacob's) just as Adam and Eve took the apple in the garden.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on May 12, 2010, 04:04:01 PM
Keep in mind that at the birth of the show they didn't have any idea how long it would air.  We all could have hated the end of season 2 and the network could have dropped the show.  At that point in the series they were really more concerned with the characters we saw on screen and keeping the story moving as well as they could.  It was only when the six season deadline was given that they were really able to embellish the story to what we have today.  When Tolkien wrote the Hobbit he wasn't planning on creating the Lord of the Rings books.  That doesn't make them any less enchanting than they are.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: CaseyMac on May 12, 2010, 04:06:35 PM
As for the acting, that is not me calling sour grapes, because I thought everyone else did a great job, even the kids. But that woman just did not pull it off. The way she spoke Latin sounded like the way I spoke German in high school. Poorly, and with no idea as to what I am saying. LOL It's the same problem I've had with Kate for 6 years, she's just terrible.

I'm the same way. I don't mean to be stirring arguements, I just like the conversation and debate. As for the acting, I thought she did an awesome job throughout the episode, especially in that scene with MIB in the well. As for her speaking Latin, I kinda see what you are saying, but what were you expecting? I mean what accent is she supposed to have? Italian? British? I get a little bothered by the trend that ancient Romans have a British accent. (i.e. the Starz series Sparticus) Her having 0 accent actually kind of worked for me. Like, Latin isn't really her first language. She is older than the language of Latin.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: vickilynn on May 12, 2010, 04:08:14 PM
The big story IS the island. In the history of the island there have been several groups of people whose stories have become part of the island myth...the Oceanic crash survivors were the group that we became involved with and it is through them that we're learning the mythology of the island. Will the history of the island end with our Losties? The world may never know...
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: CastawayCayley on May 12, 2010, 04:14:46 PM
Keep in mind that at the birth of the show they didn't have any idea how long it would air.  We all could have hated the end of season 2 and the network could have dropped the show.  At that point in the series they were really more concerned with the characters we saw on screen and keeping the story moving as well as they could.  It was only when the six season deadline was given that they were really able to embellish the story to what we have today.  When Tolkien wrote the Hobbit he wasn't planning on creating the Lord of the Rings books.  That doesn't make them any less enchanting than they are.

Yes! I agree completely! Well put!!

Just to clarify, because it seems like I was being hard on the writers: I love Lost like it was another child for me. I go along with it all gladly, and am willing to believe almost everything just so I can spend 18 or so hours a season with these amazing characters and their creators brilliant minds. I'm even more ok with the Adam and Eve resolution than I came across in my previous posts. But as someone who has a little experience as a writer I felt the need to point out what I felt was a lack of clothes on the Emperor there.

Also, LF, I didn't know that information, thank you for sharing that!
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: BobBX542 on May 12, 2010, 04:30:52 PM
As for the acting, that is not me calling sour grapes, because I thought everyone else did a great job, even the kids. But that woman just did not pull it off. The way she spoke Latin sounded like the way I spoke German in high school. Poorly, and with no idea as to what I am saying. LOL It's the same problem I've had with Kate for 6 years, she's just terrible.

I'm the same way. I don't mean to be stirring arguements, I just like the conversation and debate. As for the acting, I thought she did an awesome job throughout the episode, especially in that scene with MIB in the well. As for her speaking Latin, I kinda see what you are saying, but what were you expecting? I mean what accent is she supposed to have? Italian? British? I get a little bothered by the trend that ancient Romans have a British accent. (i.e. the Starz series Sparticus) Her having 0 accent actually kind of worked for me. Like, Latin isn't really her first language. She is older than the language of Latin.

In that respect, you are correct, even though I totally fell in love with the Spartacus series, the English accents are a touch much. ALTHOUGH, John Hannah knocked it out of the park I think. He was such a punk in the Mummy movies, but he rocks in this series, but I digress. I do think she should have had some kind of an accent while she was speaking latin. When they shifted to English, I was fine with her speaking voice, but she just didn't pull off the role very well I thought.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: jugdish on May 12, 2010, 07:47:46 PM
You guys are being incredibly whiny.  Let's just agree that nothing would satisfy 90% of you.  They could've given MIB a name, and then people would complain "But what's the mom's name?"  And some of the complaints are so nitpicking.  Yeah Jack said the clothing looked only about 40-50 years.  Jack was apparently wrong, end of story.  It proves nothing except that you lack the imagination to accept the answers given to you.  If you think Adam and Eve were meant to be someone else and can tie it to some story about the black and white stones and 50-year-old degraded clothing, then I'd like to hear it.

People seem to be making the mistake of thinking this show is about Jacob/MIB and the mythology.  They've said all along that it's about the characters and their journey.  You might believe you could just see the beginning and end and skip the middle, but then you miss out on all of the symbolism and themes and connections.  And if you really hate the show that much and you're unsatisfied by the answers, then too bad.  You wasted six years of your life.  Move on.

I for one thought the acting was fine and the episode delivered what I expected, which was showing the relationship between Jacob and MIB and the origin of their feud.  All I expect is for the show to tell the story that they intended, and any mysteries they leave unanswered aren't important to understanding the story.
You can always count on one post like this trying to talk down to the rest of us. If people don't like an episode of Lost then we are whiny and not smart enough to understand the big picture. This episode was poorly written and not very well acted. It skipped big parts of the over all mystery and produced more questions than answers. This is not acceptable with this the show ending in two eps.
After investing this much time and energy into this show, we deserve better than this ep. Is it the end of the world no. But it is a disappointment.
I didn't think I was talking down.  Maybe I'm just naturally superior, and don't realize it and so it seems that I'm talking down.  I'm just calling it like I see it.  You guys are whining.  Stating opinions like they're facts is what really bugs me.  And criticizing the acting is the last straw for me with these complaints.  I thought the acting was fine.  People are just getting mad because the show isn't going how they wanted or expected.  I'm glad Adam and Eve weren't what people expected.  I'd probably be whining too if it turned out they were Jack and Kate or Rose and Bernard.  Just accept that your expectations were too high.  Seriously, what did you expect from this episode?  About the only complaint I agree with is the flashback to Jack and Kate was unnecessary.

WOW, no lack of confidence in you huh? Being critical of the show is not whining. The mom and the kid actors were not very good in these roles. This is my opinion. All acting reviews are subjective. I felt the writing was sub par and the acting was also.I felt grown up Jacob and MIB felt disconnected with the material the were presenting, And they are usually very good in those roles.

I am fine with who Adam and eve turned out to be. did not see that coming at the beggining of the ep.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: CaseyMac on May 12, 2010, 09:25:55 PM
You guys are being incredibly whiny.  Let's just agree that nothing would satisfy 90% of you.  They could've given MIB a name, and then people would complain "But what's the mom's name?"  And some of the complaints are so nitpicking.  Yeah Jack said the clothing looked only about 40-50 years.  Jack was apparently wrong, end of story.  It proves nothing except that you lack the imagination to accept the answers given to you.  If you think Adam and Eve were meant to be someone else and can tie it to some story about the black and white stones and 50-year-old degraded clothing, then I'd like to hear it.

People seem to be making the mistake of thinking this show is about Jacob/MIB and the mythology.  They've said all along that it's about the characters and their journey.  You might believe you could just see the beginning and end and skip the middle, but then you miss out on all of the symbolism and themes and connections.  And if you really hate the show that much and you're unsatisfied by the answers, then too bad.  You wasted six years of your life.  Move on.

I for one thought the acting was fine and the episode delivered what I expected, which was showing the relationship between Jacob and MIB and the origin of their feud.  All I expect is for the show to tell the story that they intended, and any mysteries they leave unanswered aren't important to understanding the story.
You can always count on one post like this trying to talk down to the rest of us. If people don't like an episode of Lost then we are whiny and not smart enough to understand the big picture. This episode was poorly written and not very well acted. It skipped big parts of the over all mystery and produced more questions than answers. This is not acceptable with this the show ending in two eps.
After investing this much time and energy into this show, we deserve better than this ep. Is it the end of the world no. But it is a disappointment.
I didn't think I was talking down.  Maybe I'm just naturally superior, and don't realize it and so it seems that I'm talking down.  I'm just calling it like I see it.  You guys are whining.  Stating opinions like they're facts is what really bugs me.  And criticizing the acting is the last straw for me with these complaints.  I thought the acting was fine.  People are just getting mad because the show isn't going how they wanted or expected.  I'm glad Adam and Eve weren't what people expected.  I'd probably be whining too if it turned out they were Jack and Kate or Rose and Bernard.  Just accept that your expectations were too high.  Seriously, what did you expect from this episode?  About the only complaint I agree with is the flashback to Jack and Kate was unnecessary.

WOW, no lack of confidence in you huh? Being critical of the show is not whining. The mom and the kid actors were not very good in these roles. This is my opinion. All acting reviews are subjective. I felt the writing was sub par and the acting was also.I felt grown up Jacob and MIB felt disconnected with the material the were presenting, And they are usually very good in those roles.

I am fine with who Adam and eve turned out to be. did not see that coming at the beggining of the ep.

But why didn't you like the acting? Everybody is entitled to their own opinions obviously. But simply saying something was "not good" or "sub par" begs for more explaination. I personally thought the acting was excellent. Like the scene with the 2 kids first playing the game and MIb says, "One day you can have a game where you make the rules." It was great foreshadowing. I also like to point to that scene with MIB and Mother in the well as being so suspensful and emotional, but done with very few lines. So much of the intense emotion was carried through simple looks. We knew what Mother had to do before she did it, and she didn't have to say a word.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: nomteticus on May 12, 2010, 09:46:38 PM
I thought Titus Welliver's performance in this episode was stellar, he deserves an Emmy for making people care about a character they barely know. The good acting made the character's motives believable and we can identify with him (we want him to leave and find his home). I especially liked the rage he displayed after waking up and finding all the villagers dead which actually made killing his fake mother less evil.
The guy who plays Jacob was also great, we got to see another side of the character and he handled it well. I was not upset with the way The Mother was played. When you get a ambiguous fairytale lines about "the light" you can only do so much as an actor. Except for the light thing and for the fact that Mother failed to give enough answers, I thought it was a great episode, I just wish it was schedualed earlier, instead of the Temple cr@p.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: Sweet Old Lady on May 12, 2010, 10:24:40 PM
You guys are being incredibly whiny.  Let's just agree that nothing would satisfy 90% of you.  They could've given MIB a name, and then people would complain "But what's the mom's name?"  And some of the complaints are so nitpicking.  Yeah Jack said the clothing looked only about 40-50 years.  Jack was apparently wrong, end of story.  It proves nothing except that you lack the imagination to accept the answers given to you.  If you think Adam and Eve were meant to be someone else and can tie it to some story about the black and white stones and 50-year-old degraded clothing, then I'd like to hear it.

People seem to be making the mistake of thinking this show is about Jacob/MIB and the mythology.  They've said all along that it's about the characters and their journey.  You might believe you could just see the beginning and end and skip the middle, but then you miss out on all of the symbolism and themes and connections.  And if you really hate the show that much and you're unsatisfied by the answers, then too bad.  You wasted six years of your life.  Move on.
I for one thought the acting was fine and the episode delivered what I expected, which was showing the relationship between Jacob and MIB and the origin of their feud.  All I expect is for the show to tell the story that they intended, and any mysteries they leave unanswered aren't important to understanding the story.
You can always count on one post like this trying to talk down to the rest of us. If people don't like an episode of Lost then we are whiny and not smart enough to understand the big picture. This episode was poorly written and not very well acted. It skipped big parts of the over all mystery and produced more questions than answers. This is not acceptable with this the show ending in two eps.
After investing this much time and energy into this show, we deserve better than this ep. Is it the end of the wMaxor, orld no. But it is a disappointment.
I didn't think I was talking down.  Maybe I'm just naturally superior, and don't realize it and so it seems that I'm talking down.  I'm just calling it like I see it.  You guys are whining.  Stating opinions like they're facts is what really bugs me.  And criticizing the acting is the last straw for me with these complaints.  I thought the acting was fine.  People are just getting mad because the show isn't going how they wanted or expected.  I'm glad Adam and Eve weren't what people expected.  I'd probably be whining too if it turned out they were Jack and Kate or Rose and Bernard.  Just accept that your expectations were too high.  Seriously, what did you expect from this episode?  About the only complaint I agree with is the flashback to Jack and Kate was unnecessary.
It's one thing to criticize the show and the acting and quite another to attack and insult your fellow posters.    Insults don't come from people who are "naturally superior".  Maxor, You crossed the line.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: jugdish on May 13, 2010, 09:50:09 AM
Ken tucker on ew.com conveys my feelings of this episode beautifully. I will let him state my case. I guess he is whiny also....

There have been a lot of excellent episodes of Lost during this final season. Last night’s wasn’t one of them. The stilted speeches that the show deemed necessary to convey the gravity of the episode’s situations could not be rescued by the actors. The special effects looked quaintly cheesy. I just wasn’t buying it.

Don’t worry. Jeff Jensen is breaking down the episode with a complete analysis in all his infinite wisdom. I am popping in here with one of my non-mythology brief reviews.

Last night’s episode, “Across the Sea,” with Jacob and the Man in Black as lovin’-and-fightin’ brothers, reminded me of a Sunday-school play about Bad and Good, with Honor Thy (Step-)Mother as a bonus lesson.

Lost has a lot of explaining to do in its final hours. But last night, the info was unloaded in a form that was less an origin story of Jacob and MIB than a dark-and-light fantasy fable. The dialogue was so stiff, I expected to see that the actors’ tongues had turned into slivers of balsa wood.

Frankly, I’ve long had a bit of a problem with Mark Pellegrino’s performance as Jacob. Whether because of the way he’s been directed or by his natural inclination, Pellegrino has rendered Jacob as more of a pious simp than a sturdy conveyor of Lost wisdom.

But last night, even the usually terrific Titus Welliver and guest star Allison Janney could not sell the long speeches they had to deliver about secrecy, trust, hidden glowing sources of power, and fully revealed displays of evil. (I half-expected Martin Sheen’s President Bartlet to come staggering out of a cave to yell, “We’ll fight the good fight, C.J. — just comb your hair and get me back to D.C.!”)

The hour was written by Lost main men Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof — it’s not as though the producers decided to hand off an episode to a talented amateur to see what he or she could do — so you know the drama we got was exactly what the series intended. It’s just that, at this point in its proceedings, Lost must do more than talk about its themes (and boy, was this hour talky). It has to dramatize those themes in vivid, concise ways. This was the hour’s failure.

The hour ended with the perfect music: the Doors’ “The End,” one of the most portentous, bloated famous rock songs ever. It suited the episode, I’m sorry to say.

But maybe this was just an off week; certainly Lost has more than earned the trust that this was a momentary false step on the path to a glorious conclusion.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: BobBX542 on May 13, 2010, 11:23:43 AM
Ken tucker on ew.com conveys my feelings of this episode beautifully. I will let him state my case. I guess he is whiny also....

There have been a lot of excellent episodes of Lost during this final season. Last night’s wasn’t one of them. The stilted speeches that the show deemed necessary to convey the gravity of the episode’s situations could not be rescued by the actors. The special effects looked quaintly cheesy. I just wasn’t buying it.

Don’t worry. Jeff Jensen is breaking down the episode with a complete analysis in all his infinite wisdom. I am popping in here with one of my non-mythology brief reviews.

Last night’s episode, “Across the Sea,” with Jacob and the Man in Black as lovin’-and-fightin’ brothers, reminded me of a Sunday-school play about Bad and Good, with Honor Thy (Step-)Mother as a bonus lesson.

Lost has a lot of explaining to do in its final hours. But last night, the info was unloaded in a form that was less an origin story of Jacob and MIB than a dark-and-light fantasy fable. The dialogue was so stiff, I expected to see that the actors’ tongues had turned into slivers of balsa wood.

Frankly, I’ve long had a bit of a problem with Mark Pellegrino’s performance as Jacob. Whether because of the way he’s been directed or by his natural inclination, Pellegrino has rendered Jacob as more of a pious simp than a sturdy conveyor of Lost wisdom.

But last night, even the usually terrific Titus Welliver and guest star Allison Janney could not sell the long speeches they had to deliver about secrecy, trust, hidden glowing sources of power, and fully revealed displays of evil. (I half-expected Martin Sheen’s President Bartlet to come staggering out of a cave to yell, “We’ll fight the good fight, C.J. — just comb your hair and get me back to D.C.!”)

The hour was written by Lost main men Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof — it’s not as though the producers decided to hand off an episode to a talented amateur to see what he or she could do — so you know the drama we got was exactly what the series intended. It’s just that, at this point in its proceedings, Lost must do more than talk about its themes (and boy, was this hour talky). It has to dramatize those themes in vivid, concise ways. This was the hour’s failure.

The hour ended with the perfect music: the Doors’ “The End,” one of the most portentous, bloated famous rock songs ever. It suited the episode, I’m sorry to say.

But maybe this was just an off week; certainly Lost has more than earned the trust that this was a momentary false step on the path to a glorious conclusion.

Jug, you should never quote someone who talks trash on the doors. It just sullies your point.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: Suzanne4au2 on May 13, 2010, 11:51:34 AM
I agree with Juggy here on the acting. It was not very good for me. It didn't seem to flow like a regular episode. I had high hopes for the fake mom and was let down big time, because she has been great in other things(Juno). Titus Welliver-I did like, but all the others fell flat!
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: nomteticus on May 13, 2010, 12:09:44 PM
I said it before, I think the script is the problem more than the acting. Pellegrino was told to act as "momma's boy" and he did it, fake Mom actress was told to act as "mysterious/crazy ageless woman with ambiguous fairitale answers" and she did just that. Titus Welliver had a better role and he played it great, by my standards, and the children was alright. The problem is with the so called answers they gave us. They seemed a bit out of place.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: lostfan777 on May 13, 2010, 01:22:19 PM
Yeah, I'm blaming the script too.  I loved Allison Janney on the West Wing and was looking forward to her role.  She had her moments, Welliver also.  I hated the entire part of Jacob, though, way too whiny.  All the "I don't want to"s and the "I don't care"s, I was expecting him to stomp his foot and say "Aw, shucks, mom" and have her tell him to watch his tone!   :D
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on May 13, 2010, 01:31:16 PM
I actually quite like the way Jacob has been played and developed.  (DON'T SHOOT!)  I had always imagined Jacob would be a god-like brilliant being, with the best wishes of humanity at heart.  But ever since we saw him sitting on the beach last season we know that's now who he is.  He took the job reluctantly.  He felt, rightly so it seems, that he was never MEANT to take on that responsibility.  It ended up being thrown at him.  He loved his mother enough and had enough belief in what she said to take up the reigns. 

The difference between him and his brother was that Jacob was willing to remain, while his brother wanted to know more.  Is it really a sin or a crime to choose to do either? 

Jacob's actor has started to show him not as some high immortal, but as a child born on the island with only the direction of his mother to guide him.  He doesn't WANT this, but he feels he MUST do it.  He's just as much the reluctant "hero" as Jack.  He is flawed, that's what makes him a more interesting character.  Especially one that holds such a huge part of the mythology.

IMHO!
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: BobBX542 on May 13, 2010, 01:35:02 PM
I actually quite like the way Jacob has been played and developed.  (DON'T SHOOT!)  I had always imagined Jacob would be a god-like brilliant being, with the best wishes of humanity at heart.  But ever since we saw him sitting on the beach last season we know that's now who he is.  He took the job reluctantly.  He felt, rightly so it seems, that he was never MEANT to take on that responsibility.  It ended up being thrown at him.  He loved his mother enough and had enough belief in what she said to take up the reigns. 

The difference between him and his brother was that Jacob was willing to remain, while his brother wanted to know more.  Is it really a sin or a crime to choose to do either? 

Jacob's actor has started to show him not as some high immortal, but as a child born on the island with only the direction of his mother to guide him.  He doesn't WANT this, but he feels he MUST do it.  He's just as much the reluctant "hero" as Jack.  He is flawed, that's what makes him a more interesting character.  Especially one that holds such a huge part of the mythology.

IMHO!

This might actually be a big reason as to why Jacob has been doing this all this time. He sort of had the job thrust upon him, and doesn't want to do that to someone else, so he sets up this craziness so that the right person will come along and choose it.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: Creflo on May 13, 2010, 01:38:02 PM
You guys are being incredibly whiny.  Let's just agree that nothing would satisfy 90% of you.

Whiny is not a nice word to use.  However, I agree that you can't please all of the people all of the time.
There are people who watch the show for the mysteries.  There are those who like the sci-fi.  There are those (curse them) who watch for the friggin love triangles.  By whittling away certain aspects, they abandon some of their audience...so I tolerate the things I don't like.

I like this episode.

Quote
They could've given MIB a name, and then people would complain "But what's the mom's name?" 

Agreed.  There has to come a point where you stop explaining things, and the reason for this is as follows:
When you start writing a fantasy and include fantastic elements like super powers and miracles and things, you begin to paint yourself into a corner when it comes time to explain everything at the end.

Stephen King has a lot to say about this subject because he does this a lot.  The main point is that it's about the journey and not about the ending.  This is coming from a guy who has written some monumentally disappointing endings*.  I excuse this from him and from Lost because some fantastical elements cannot be satisfactorily explained and I would rather HAVE the elements and not have an explanation vs having those elements removed (or have the explanation be something stupid like "it was all a dream" or aliens or something).

The fact is there is no explanation for smoke monsters, time travel, magical islands or the eternal struggle for mankind's salvation that is gonna work for this crowd.  All the writers can do is explain the motivations of the characters we've all grown to love.

The fact that you people** are so demanding of answers about something that could never be satisfactorily explained is testimony to the success of the writers in creating a brilliant and engaging journey.



Quote
I for one thought the acting was fine and the episode delivered what I expected, which was showing the relationship between Jacob and MIB and the origin of their feud.  All I expect is for the show to tell the story that they intended, and any mysteries they leave unanswered aren't important to understanding the story.

The actors did a great job of portraying what they were: adult children who grew up in a place removed from the real world, naive to everything that wasn't Garden of Eden.  That woman is Jacob's whole world.  Give him a few centuries to become the kind of messiah figure who is coordinating Richard, DHARMA, and the Candidates.

* See Dark Tower, The Dome, etc.
** deliberate joshing
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: nomteticus on May 13, 2010, 01:49:28 PM
I'm not sure this question belongs here, but did we actually see Jacob's mother shaving her legs??? And if so, why? I'm not sure it was too popular at the time (23 AD) and it's not like she had a social group to worry about.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: Suzanne4au2 on May 13, 2010, 01:50:57 PM
I thought she was doing something with the thread for the weaving?
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on May 13, 2010, 01:54:45 PM
Good summary, creflo.

Remember that the finale will be the length of a full feature film.  And dang, they create, mount, and resolve plots in those things all the time!  On top of that we get one more regular episode.  I'm excited to see what they do with their remaining time.  Hopefully, balls-to-the-wall style.

nom- I KNOW, RIGHT?  I thought that was what she might be doing... not sure what they were trying to portray there.  Maybe her feminine side?  Maybe that she was a regular person at one point and is holding onto that in a small way?  Maybe that's what she weaves with?  

But check out this most likely irrelevant summary of "hair symbolism" in some book about the gods:
He comments upon the hair several times, and when asked what he would do to his prisoner, his immediate response is: "first I shall cut off your delicate locks," to which Dionysus responds, "my long hair is sacred; I am growing it for the god." This exchange proves a revelation, for while the Stranger could have been growing his hair as a promise to a god, as was common practice, his hair is long simply because he is the god himself.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: nomteticus on May 13, 2010, 01:59:40 PM
So basically she was shaving her legs because she was preparing to leave the godly state and step into the land of the dead???
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on May 13, 2010, 02:03:10 PM
So basically she was shaving her legs because she was preparing to leave the godly state and step into the land of the dead???
I have no idea! I'm not even sure if she WAS shaving her legs!  But I can't wait to watch that episode commentary when the season comes out!
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: BobBX542 on May 13, 2010, 02:21:14 PM
Stephen King has a lot to say about this subject because he does this a lot.  The main point is that it's about the journey and not about the ending.  This is coming from a guy who has written some monumentally disappointing endings*.  I excuse this from him and from Lost because some fantastical elements cannot be satisfactorily explained and I would rather HAVE the elements and not have an explanation vs having those elements removed (or have the explanation be something stupid like "it was all a dream" or aliens or something).

Oh, I have to totally disagree with you there. It is most certainly about the ending. Example, Sopranos. And to paint an even lovlier picture for you, what if, come this Tuesday, you go to turn on LOST, and TPTB come on and say, "We thought you would like the mystery of what happens more than what we were going to tell you, so LOST is now cancelled forever." You would be okay with that?? In fact, Stephen King saying this does explain alot of his books, because I'll tell you what, I couldn't give a half a crap about his journeys or his endings.

I'm not sure this question belongs here, but did we actually see Jacob's mother shaving her legs??? And if so, why? I'm not sure it was too popular at the time (23 AD) and it's not like she had a social group to worry about.

I deffinitely think you misinterpreted that scene. Looked to me like she was trying to loosen the thread or something to that effect to make it easier to weave it.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: CaseyMac on May 13, 2010, 02:46:20 PM

Frankly, I’ve long had a bit of a problem with Mark Pellegrino’s performance as Jacob. Whether because of the way he’s been directed or by his natural inclination, Pellegrino has rendered Jacob as more of a pious simp than a sturdy conveyor of Lost wisdom.

I think this is really a fundamental difference of opinion. If you think Pellegrino hasn't been great, then I can see how you would have a problem with nearly all the acting in Lost. I guess I'm just easier to please when it comes to acting. If the acting is not so bad that it takes you out of the moment, then I don't even notice it, and that is usually my criteria for acting. If the acting is invisible, and you can focus on what is happening, then the actors are doing a great job.

I mean, I've never had a problem with Kate's delivery, or Jack doing his "look down, look back up, look down, look back up", or any of the acting in the show. And this episode, it's hard for me to criticsize award winning actors using clichee critic lines.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: BobBX542 on May 13, 2010, 02:51:23 PM

Frankly, I’ve long had a bit of a problem with Mark Pellegrino’s performance as Jacob. Whether because of the way he’s been directed or by his natural inclination, Pellegrino has rendered Jacob as more of a pious simp than a sturdy conveyor of Lost wisdom.

I think this is really a fundamental difference of opinion. If you think Pellegrino hasn't been great, then I can see how you would have a problem with nearly all the acting in Lost. I guess I'm just easier to please when it comes to acting. If the acting is not so bad that it takes you out of the moment, then I don't even notice it, and that is usually my criteria for acting. If the acting is invisible, and you can focus on what is happening, then the actors are doing a great job.

I mean, I've never had a problem with Kate's delivery, or Jack doing his "look down, look back up, look down, look back up", or any of the acting in the show. And this episode, it's hard for me to criticsize award winning actors using clichee critic lines.

They are cliche's for a reason though.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: trodge on May 13, 2010, 05:04:06 PM
Wow, people all sorts of fired up. Well, I personally thought that whoever that woman was did a terrible job acting like, anything. As for everyone else in the show, they were fine. I'm actually kind of interested in what all the people who want to know more about Dharma are looking for?? I mean, I thought everything we have been told kind of did a really good job at just wrapping them up. They were scientists that came to the island to study the strange effects of the island, they got in over their heads with the natives, and it all fell apart. I mean, aside from finding out how they even knew about the island in the first place, I don't see what else there is to be curious about regarding Dharma.

The big thing I want to see is them arriving and the convo's between Hanso and Jacob.  I want to know why they were allowed to stay there.  They were just like the group that the mother killed and they were allowed to stay.  They were men and women of science versus Jacob and faith.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 13, 2010, 05:06:52 PM
Wow, people all sorts of fired up. Well, I personally thought that whoever that woman was did a terrible job acting like, anything. As for everyone else in the show, they were fine. I'm actually kind of interested in what all the people who want to know more about Dharma are looking for?? I mean, I thought everything we have been told kind of did a really good job at just wrapping them up. They were scientists that came to the island to study the strange effects of the island, they got in over their heads with the natives, and it all fell apart. I mean, aside from finding out how they even knew about the island in the first place, I don't see what else there is to be curious about regarding Dharma.

The big thing I want to see is them arriving and the convo's between Hanso and Jacob.  I want to know why they were allowed to stay there.  They were just like the group that the mother killed and they were allowed to stay.  They were men and women of science versus Jacob and faith.

Well they were allowed to stay until they started to get a bit too close to finding the light (I assume) and then the Purge happened.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: trodge on May 13, 2010, 05:22:34 PM
Wow, people all sorts of fired up. Well, I personally thought that whoever that woman was did a terrible job acting like, anything. As for everyone else in the show, they were fine. I'm actually kind of interested in what all the people who want to know more about Dharma are looking for?? I mean, I thought everything we have been told kind of did a really good job at just wrapping them up. They were scientists that came to the island to study the strange effects of the island, they got in over their heads with the natives, and it all fell apart. I mean, aside from finding out how they even knew about the island in the first place, I don't see what else there is to be curious about regarding Dharma.

The big thing I want to see is them arriving and the convo's between Hanso and Jacob.  I want to know why they were allowed to stay there.  They were just like the group that the mother killed and they were allowed to stay.  They were men and women of science versus Jacob and faith.

Well they were allowed to stay until they started to get a bit too close to finding the light (I assume) and then the Purge happened.

I do like that explanation, since it's weird that Jacob would allow them to live there all those years and then one day he's like, "ummm, ya, I've had a enough of you, you've gots to go now"  Another question I've got on my list, what caused the order of the purge.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 13, 2010, 05:26:09 PM
Wow, people all sorts of fired up. Well, I personally thought that whoever that woman was did a terrible job acting like, anything. As for everyone else in the show, they were fine. I'm actually kind of interested in what all the people who want to know more about Dharma are looking for?? I mean, I thought everything we have been told kind of did a really good job at just wrapping them up. They were scientists that came to the island to study the strange effects of the island, they got in over their heads with the natives, and it all fell apart. I mean, aside from finding out how they even knew about the island in the first place, I don't see what else there is to be curious about regarding Dharma.

The big thing I want to see is them arriving and the convo's between Hanso and Jacob.  I want to know why they were allowed to stay there.  They were just like the group that the mother killed and they were allowed to stay.  They were men and women of science versus Jacob and faith.

Well they were allowed to stay until they started to get a bit too close to finding the light (I assume) and then the Purge happened.

I do like that explanation, since it's weird that Jacob would allow them to live there all those years and then one day he's like, "ummm, ya, I've had a enough of you, you've gots to go now"  Another question I've got on my list, what caused the order of the purge.

Yeah I was forever in the camp of MiB using the cabin gave the order, but after learning what we did about the Light and all it would make sense if Jacob ordered it in the same vein that Jacob's mom killed the villiage.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: WhatThe on May 13, 2010, 06:17:49 PM
I want to know what Widmore's motive is in this whole stinking series. At first he's anxious to find the island because he wants Ben (Bring Ben back alive, kill everyone else). Now he wants the island in order to keep Smokie/MiB from leaving. Apparently wanting Ben was more or less irrelevant now that the show is ending. Ben and Widmore's personal feud/"game" got some brief airtime, then basically vanished from the storyline.

Not to mention Sun contacting Widmore. What the hell did that lead to, other than one scene with Sun trying to talk to Widmore about both of them wanting the same thing (or the same man)? That scene added zero to the season and the series and the story. It didn't even add much to the episode it appeared in lol. So what was the point?

And the whole Dharma thing kinda fizzled out in my opinion. For years they had the "mysterious" Dharma Initiative, creepy training videos and enigmatic leaders of the whole thing. They had online games and had viewers sign up for the Dharma Initiative. They had bios of the higher-ups in the organization, they had "viral videos" that were supposed to show the shenanigans and goings-on behind the scenes of Dharma. I mean, they invested a LOT into the whole Dharma Initiative storyline and asked viewers to jump in and invest a lot into Dharma, too. This wasn't like Ajira Airlines, where they just made a fake commercial and that's pretty much it lol. The writers REALLY wanted you to invest time and energy investigating all the aspects of the Dharma Initiative.

Now? Now Dharma is just a bunch of scientists who got killed off lol. Nothing special at all about them, even in the overall story of the island...just another group of people unfortunate enough to land on the island and end up dead. Their only significant action was drilling a bit too far down while creating the Swan hatch. That's it. The military had just as significant a role in everything by leaving Jughead on the island...but the military's story was over and done with in less than an hour. Dharma lasted something like 4 1/2 seasons.

And I can't help but think Aaron's role in everything is basically zilch lol. All the "You MUST raise your child, Claire!"/psychic freaking out and making sure Claire lands on--and gives birth on--the island/Charlie having religious dreams about saving Aaron/the "666" mention concerning Claire finding out she was pregnant/"Don't you DARE bring him back, Kate!!" dream/Locke with pitch-black eyes telling Claire it's her fault cuz she was supposed to raise Aaron herself...and all the other Aaron gibberish from the first several seasons..it's more or less irrelevant now, it seems. We wanted Aaron to be a real part of the proceedings so much that every strange young boy we saw on the island we swore must be Aaron lol. Our thinking was that "There's GOT to be more to Aaron's story", and it made us imagine all sorts of Aaron connections that, it turns out, weren't there at all. Is anyone really satisfied with what we've come to know about Aaron in all this?

And I'm guessing we'll never actually find out how the Others became the Others, why the people who were part of the Others became Others, etc, etc. Again, it turns out the big mystery behind these group of people is that, well, they crashed on the island lol. They're not original inhabitants of the island, they're not descendants of the Black Rock, they're not a branch of Dharma folk who went nuts and killed off everyone else in order to have the island to themselves. They're just random people who, for whatever reason, joined the Jacob cult. For my money, the other three scenarios would have been far more intriguing and interesting.

It just feels now as if the creators of "Lost" bit off a bit more than they could chew. And as the story and series is finally winding down, it's starting to show.

Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: jugdish on May 13, 2010, 07:08:08 PM
I agree with you, I am hoping the last 3.5 hours ties much of this together.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: CaseyMac on May 13, 2010, 07:52:47 PM
It just feels now as if the creators of "Lost" bit off a bit more than they could chew. And as the story and series is finally winding down, it's starting to show.

I don't know. I think alot of people are simply disappointed because it's not exactly what they were expecting for the end. There have been a ton of times in Lost where we think something may be vitally important and game changing, but as time goes on, we find out, it wasn't that major. I mean, remember when the biggest thing was "how are they going to find food now that the Oceanic 815 food carts are empty"?

The Sun/Widmore alliance, well it took all of 1 scene to create, and it had a pretty major impact on a vital scene that we saw played out from 3 different points of view on the dock. I think using 1 scene to create that kind of gun pointing suspense was worth it. Plus it had the major reveal to Sun that Jin was still alive.

The Dharma thing, you are not alone. I think there are alot of fans that would have been happy with Lost being about the Dharma Initiative. But it's not. The DI played an important role in the history of the Island and the journey of our characters, but the show isn't about Dharma. Viral marketing campaigns don't make a show. I'm not going to go into all the ways Dharma played a major role in the story (hatch, food drops, barracks, orchid, hydra, etc. etc.) but to just say they were nothing special is disingeuous.

As for Aaron, the full story has yet to play out, but yeah, I was kind of expecting a larger role for the first baby to be born on the Island for who knows how long. Then again, it really doesn't take that much away from the show because Aaron did have a large effect on the main characters lives, Charlie, Jack, Kate, and of course Claire. But yeah, we all thought there was more to it for this kid.

As for the Others, we kind of got their orgin story. The first Other was Richard. They are the extension of Jacob being protector of the Island. I just don't think we're going to get a scene that shows The Others High Council sitting around a table discussing diplomacy like it was some Star Trek movie.

There's nothing wrong with wishing for them to explain one thing, or expand on another thing, but the show is what it is. And we knew that when they said, "After 6 seasons, we are done." that not everything was going to be expanded on.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: Point Place WI on May 13, 2010, 09:50:21 PM
Casey Mac I have a question that needs a response or opinion.  Do you ever agree with anyone but yourself?  I personally feel the majority of us are in agreement that we need some type of closure. You can leave a leave a door open here or there but the damn roof is completely off. 

Seems to me that ABC pulled the plug prematurely when Darlton's couldn't give the network a straight forward answer as to where the show was going since they are so hush hush. 
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: NoraCharles on May 13, 2010, 11:00:02 PM
This is really interesting how this buzz about the end is playing out among the fans.

The producers created a show and an internet environment around it unlike anything ever before. Sure shows have sites where fans discuss the show, but Lost producers jumped in and created fake sites for Oceanic Airline and hid stuff in it! They invited us to play a game. We accepted. We watched each episode faithfully and hunted for Easter Eggs in the earlier seasons, posting screencaps of numbers and people in each others' backstories. We proposed theories and discussed them here and at other sites. The producers gave us more online content, more puzzles, more games to play with, even books to read. They dangled the carrot and we followed. For six years we've played the game and now it's coming to an end.

I think some of the fans are tired of playing the game and just want it to be over.
I think there are other fans who want to "win" the game and finally know all the hidden stuff, to find the hidden treasure, if you will. They kind of feel that the producers owe them this because of the buzz they helped feed and create about the show on television and online as well: Here's a mystery, now here's an answer, but another mystery. Lather, rinse, repeat. (But then again, based on that pattern, these fans should know better ;) )

And I'm one of those fans, a little of both really. I hope for a good ending; an ending that does the story and characters justice and does answer the major questions. I would love for it to be mind-blowingly awesome (think Sixth Sense), but don't really think that will happen. There's so much hype about it now anyway, that I figure the best way to watch it is to have no expectations, then I won't be let down.

If I don't like how it ends, I won't consider this six years of my life wasted at all. I learned A LOT of new stuff about philosophers, history, geography, books and time travel.  I used my mind and thought about possibilities, I discussed theories with people and I got to see a lot of shirtless Sawyer.
That can't be all that bad.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: WhatThe on May 13, 2010, 11:18:33 PM
This is really interesting how this buzz about the end is playing out among the fans.

The producers created a show and an internet environment around it unlike anything ever before. Sure shows have sites where fans discuss the show, but Lost producers jumped in and created fake sites for Oceanic Airline and hid stuff in it! They invited us to play a game. We accepted. We watched each episode faithfully and hunted for Easter Eggs in the earlier seasons, posting screencaps of numbers and people in each others' backstories. We proposed theories and discussed them here and at other sites. The producers gave us more online content, more puzzles, more games to play with, even books to read. They dangled the carrot and we followed. For six years we've played the game and now it's coming to an end.

I think some of the fans are tired of playing the game and just want it to be over.
I think there are other fans who want to "win" the game and finally know all the hidden stuff, to find the hidden treasure, if you will. They kind of feel that the producers owe them this because of the buzz they helped feed and create about the show on television and online as well: Here's a mystery, now here's an answer, but another mystery. Lather, rinse, repeat. (But then again, based on that pattern, these fans should know better ;) )

And I'm one of those fans, a little of both really. I hope for a good ending; an ending that does the story and characters justice and does answer the major questions. I would love for it to be mind-blowingly awesome (think Sixth Sense), but don't really think that will happen. There's so much hype about it now anyway, that I figure the best way to watch it is to have no expectations, then I won't be let down.

If I don't like how it ends, I won't consider this six years of my life wasted at all. I learned A LOT of new stuff about philosophers, history, geography, books and time travel.  I used my mind and thought about possibilities, I discussed theories with people and I got to see a lot of shirtless Sawyer.
That can't be all that bad.

I'd agree with you more if they showed a shirtless Kate or a shirtless Sun lol :D
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: CaseyMac on May 13, 2010, 11:27:54 PM
Casey Mac I have a question that needs a response or opinion.  Do you ever agree with anyone but yourself?  I personally feel the majority of us are in agreement that we need some type of closure. You can leave a leave a door open here or there but the damn roof is completely off. 

Seems to me that ABC pulled the plug prematurely when Darlton's couldn't give the network a straight forward answer as to where the show was going since they are so hush hush. 

Oh yeah. Totally. Along with myself, I also usually agree with me and I.

But seriously, folks. Yeah, I agree with different theories alot. For me personally, I try to avoid posts that simply say, "Yup, I agree." although when I think back, I know I've done that a few times.

You bring up a good point, and sure, maybe it's a flaw, in that I tend to respond to posts I disagree with, while I tend to quietly agree with the ones I'm on board with. Maybe I should have more posts where I say "/agree", but I generally consider that unnecessary.

As to the larger issue of, is Lost failing in it's finale...well even if I'm the only person in the world who thinks it, I'll still think this final season has been great. I'm not going to change the opinion of what I like based on what the majority thinks. And thats what we are talking about. It's a matter of taste if you like it or not. Honestly, I kinda feel sorry for those that arn't enjoying these episodes. After one ends, I'm filled with a sense of..."awwwwwweeesooommmmmeee". I don't know if I'd continue watching if after the episodes are over I thought, "well that sucked, I should have watched Sportscenter." Lord knows I've stopped watching a bunch of shows that initially caught my attention, but didn't hold it. (Most recently V)

So, if most of you agree that this final season isn't giving enough closure, cool for you. For me, personally, I'm not saying it's perfect with every question I had being answered, but they are covering enough of the bases for me to continue to have that "awwwweesssoooommmmeee" feeling. I'm really looking forward to the 23rd.

I'll throw this back at you though, and I'll use a metaphor inspired by Juggy's avatar. If you are in the middle of Lambeau Field, and you stand up and say, "Lombardi is sooo overrated." you are going to get a reaction. It's a free internet, so say whatever you want. But, be aware of the venue and don't be surprised at the reaction.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: trodge on May 13, 2010, 11:41:06 PM
Casey Mac I have a question that needs a response or opinion.  Do you ever agree with anyone but yourself?  I personally feel the majority of us are in agreement that we need some type of closure. You can leave a leave a door open here or there but the damn roof is completely off. 

Seems to me that ABC pulled the plug prematurely when Darlton's couldn't give the network a straight forward answer as to where the show was going since they are so hush hush. 

Oh yeah. Totally. Along with myself, I also usually agree with me and I.

But seriously, folks. Yeah, I agree with different theories alot. For me personally, I try to avoid posts that simply say, "Yup, I agree." although when I think back, I know I've done that a few times.

You bring up a good point, and sure, maybe it's a flaw, in that I tend to respond to posts I disagree with, while I tend to quietly agree with the ones I'm on board with. Maybe I should have more posts where I say "/agree", but I generally consider that unnecessary.

As to the larger issue of, is Lost failing in it's finale...well even if I'm the only person in the world who thinks it, I'll still think this final season has been great. I'm not going to change the opinion of what I like based on what the majority thinks. And thats what we are talking about. It's a matter of taste if you like it or not. Honestly, I kinda feel sorry for those that arn't enjoying these episodes. After one ends, I'm filled with a sense of..."awwwwwweeesooommmmmeee". I don't know if I'd continue watching if after the episodes are over I thought, "well that sucked, I should have watched Sportscenter." Lord knows I've stopped watching a bunch of shows that initially caught my attention, but didn't hold it. (Most recently V)

So, if most of you agree that this final season isn't giving enough closure, cool for you. For me, personally, I'm not saying it's perfect with every question I had being answered, but they are covering enough of the bases for me to continue to have that "awwwweesssoooommmmeee" feeling. I'm really looking forward to the 23rd.

I'll throw this back at you though, and I'll use a metaphor inspired by Juggy's avatar. If you are in the middle of Lambeau Field, and you stand up and say, "Lombardi is sooo overrated." you are going to get a reaction. It's a free internet, so say whatever you want. But, be aware of the venue and don't be surprised at the reaction.

I like what you're saying and you just made me think, maybe that's what bothered me this week.  There was so much coming at me, my head filled with questions so quickly, just like it did in previous seasons.  Maybe  it took me back to times like when the hatch door map popped up...the digging around the net for hints and clues.  Maybe that's why I got so angry, this isn't season 2 anymore.  We've only got 3.5 hours left of this journey and I'm FREAKING OUT!! :)
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 14, 2010, 01:12:43 AM
It just feels now as if the creators of "Lost" bit off a bit more than they could chew. And as the story and series is finally winding down, it's starting to show.

I don't know. I think alot of people are simply disappointed because it's not exactly what they were expecting for the end. There have been a ton of times in Lost where we think something may be vitally important and game changing, but as time goes on, we find out, it wasn't that major. I mean, remember when the biggest thing was "how are they going to find food now that the Oceanic 815 food carts are empty"?

The Sun/Widmore alliance, well it took all of 1 scene to create, and it had a pretty major impact on a vital scene that we saw played out from 3 different points of view on the dock. I think using 1 scene to create that kind of gun pointing suspense was worth it. Plus it had the major reveal to Sun that Jin was still alive.

The Dharma thing, you are not alone. I think there are alot of fans that would have been happy with Lost being about the Dharma Initiative. But it's not. The DI played an important role in the history of the Island and the journey of our characters, but the show isn't about Dharma. Viral marketing campaigns don't make a show. I'm not going to go into all the ways Dharma played a major role in the story (hatch, food drops, barracks, orchid, hydra, etc. etc.) but to just say they were nothing special is disingeuous.

As for Aaron, the full story has yet to play out, but yeah, I was kind of expecting a larger role for the first baby to be born on the Island for who knows how long. Then again, it really doesn't take that much away from the show because Aaron did have a large effect on the main characters lives, Charlie, Jack, Kate, and of course Claire. But yeah, we all thought there was more to it for this kid.

As for the Others, we kind of got their orgin story. The first Other was Richard. They are the extension of Jacob being protector of the Island. I just don't think we're going to get a scene that shows The Others High Council sitting around a table discussing diplomacy like it was some Star Trek movie.

There's nothing wrong with wishing for them to explain one thing, or expand on another thing, but the show is what it is. And we knew that when they said, "After 6 seasons, we are done." that not everything was going to be expanded on.

Agreed Casey. Yeah you and I are often in the same camp. I think alot of people put so much time into theorizing what was going to happen on the show they became so certain of the outcome, and now that it is moving in a different direction they are a little upset. Dharma played a large part on the island. They grew and figured out things on the Island that no one ever came close to understanding before, and they became a danger to the very thing Jacob was supposed to protect. Dharma was then wiped out. We then got a follow up where we spent an entire freaking season with The Initiative, and still people want more. I for one am perfectly happy with the way this show is heading, and I think alot of the mysticism (the Aaron) stuff was introduced as other possible narratives open for discussion, but may turn out to be dead ends just like Ellie's maze. In the end we can go back and watch it after we know how to complete the maze, and see how it holds up. 

P.S. Aaron's story still needs to be told in the SideLinetm. It may have been that the psychic caught a glimpse of the SideLinetm when he gave Claire the warning. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: james_sawyer on May 14, 2010, 06:28:52 AM
season 6 should have had at least 22  episode then they could have took their time to address most of the question
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: WhatThe on May 14, 2010, 06:39:24 AM
I don't know. I think alot of people are simply disappointed because it's not exactly what they were expecting for the end.

I don't agree. I think most who are having some problems with how this season is unfolding didn't have specific ideas of how the show would end other than thinking we'd get several "Oh, wow" moments that help tie in a lot of the things the show has promoted over the years. Instead, we seem to be getting more than a few "Is that it?" moments lol. If I were to generalize, though, in the same manner you have, I'd say that most of the people who claim that fans are making too big a deal over stuff are really just wanting to defend their favorite show moreso than actually taking into account the validity of the criticisms. Everything is chalked up to fans not being patient enough, not being open enough, to wanting every small minute detail explained in length...funny, but it's never chalked up to the show may have just dropped the ball on occasion. It's ok to say that lol.


Quote
There have been a ton of times in Lost where we think something may be vitally important and game changing, but as time goes on, we find out, it wasn't that major. I mean, remember when the biggest thing was "how are they going to find food now that the Oceanic 815 food carts are empty"?

Actually, no I don't remember that being a real issue for anyone lol...especially on an island full of fruit, the occasional wild boar, and an ocean full of fish. Besides, that's really not the same thing as what people are complaining about...where the Losties would get more food didn't play at ALL into the mysteries of the island, Dharma, the Others...those are the things we're discussing, the things that made the show so captivating and worthy of theorizing about.

I have a friend who, midway through this season, said they felt like all the things they had been wondering about over the years no longer mattered. There are a few too many times this season where I felt the same way. And obviously I'm not alone.


Quote
The Sun/Widmore alliance, well it took all of 1 scene to create, and it had a pretty major impact on a vital scene that we saw played out from 3 different points of view on the dock. I think using 1 scene to create that kind of gun pointing suspense was worth it. Plus it had the major reveal to Sun that Jin was still alive.

How in the world did Sun confronting Widmore play ANY role in the dock scene? That scene could have and would have taken place even if Sun never met Widmore. She still could have a gun, she still could say things like "It wasn’t for you, Jin would still be alive" and "You're lying" even if she never talked with Widmore. She didn't need Widmore to hate Ben, she already hated Ben and wanted him dead, and that would have still been the case even without her confronting Widmore on the street. Their meeting was actually uneventful in terms of how it effected things afterwards.


Quote
The Dharma thing, you are not alone. I think there are alot of fans that would have been happy with Lost being about the Dharma Initiative. But it's not. The DI played an important role in the history of the Island and the journey of our characters, but the show isn't about Dharma. Viral marketing campaigns don't make a show. I'm not going to go into all the ways Dharma played a major role in the story (hatch, food drops, barracks, orchid, hydra, etc. etc.) but to just say they were nothing special is disingeuous.

You are missing some vital points,  here. For starters, the food drops, barracks and hydra did not play vital roles in the show. We were lead to believe they would...but what is occurring right now that could not have occurred if the food drops never occurred? What is occurring right now that could not have occurred if they lived somewhere else other than the barracks after the purge? Nothing. And if they never went to the Hydra? Nothing.

Right now this show is about Jacob, MiB, and why the island is important as well as why a new "protector" is needed. Nothing connected with Dharma is part of any of that, other than the Swan hatch--which I mentioned. Nothing else concerning Dharma turned out to be important afterall. Why they were there? Who cares, doesn't play a role in anything as we near the end of the series. Their experiments and activities didn't eventually provide the characters--and thus the audience--with a better understanding of what the island really is. All that took was a flashback of Jacob explaining the island to Richard in about 45 seconds lol...and nothing Jacob said puts any of the Dharma activity into a new perspective or shines a brighter light on things they did in the past. Who are the big wigs behind all of the Dharma stuff? Who cares, other than as an answer to a trivia question some day.

Dharma's existence provided some damn good mystery for about 2 seasons, then fizzled out in its importance. And, yeah, some of us think that was a damn shame it did, and that the show would be much better if it had provided better explanations.

Quote
As for Aaron, the full story has yet to play out, but yeah, I was kind of expecting a larger role for the first baby to be born on the Island for who knows how long. Then again, it really doesn't take that much away from the show because Aaron did have a large effect on the main characters lives, Charlie, Jack, Kate, and of course Claire. But yeah, we all thought there was more to it for this kid.

I don't see how Aaron had a "large effect" on anyone other than Claire and possibly Kate. But the point is, the show made it seem as if something extremely important--or extremely dangerous and evil--was being effected by Claire's unborn child, that the kid would play a pivotal role in everything one day. I'd like to think that extremely important, extremely dangerous and evil thing was not simply letting Charlie be a surrogate father for a few months lol. I want to believe that the psychic saw something more troubling in his vision to make him put Claire on a plane other than allowing Jack to realize he has a step-sister ;)...

Think of it this way: imagine if we had found out this season that, had Aaron not been born on the island or if he had been raised by anyone other than Claire, the evil that the island is protecting would have surely escaped and caused the end of everything as we know it. THAT would have been an "Oh, wow" moment and would have put past episodes and comments about Aaron into a pretty cool context. But that didn't happen. Aaron is off living with his grandmother, and whatever it was that caused the psychic to freak out and buy Claire a plane ticket at his own expense seems irrelevant now. It just seems like yet another area in which the show dropped the ball.


Quote
As for the Others, we kind of got their orgin story. The first Other was Richard. They are the extension of Jacob being protector of the Island. I just don't think we're going to get a scene that shows The Others High Council sitting around a table discussing diplomacy like it was some Star Trek movie.

You realize, though, that the show has yet to actually explain why the Others exist at all? Not even slightly. Well, that is unless the explanation is "They're just a bunch of people with no real importance other than Richard". And the leader of the Others was Ben!! Ben, one of the most memorable tv characters ever created...the group he was leading should have been given a better reason for existing. Again, the theories that fans came up with were actually VERY intriguing and interesting. I myself loved the idea that the Others were a splinter group from Dharma who tapped into the realities of the island and, because of that, found themselves wanting to protect it at all costs. It's too bad the writers didn't think giving an interesting back-story and history about the Others was worth the time. We don't even know how Widmore and Eloise became "Others", when they arrived on the island, if they arrived at the same time, etc, etc. Once more...the show dropped the ball in my eyes by overlooking some GREAT possibilities.


Quote
There's nothing wrong with wishing for them to explain one thing, or expand on another thing, but the show is what it is. And we knew that when they said, "After 6 seasons, we are done." that not everything was going to be expanded on.

That doesn't mean that everything with the show is fine as it is and there are no valid reasons for criticism.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: opgelost on May 14, 2010, 07:13:12 AM
The difference between him and his brother was that Jacob was willing to remain, while his brother wanted to know more.  Is it really a sin or a crime to choose to do either? 

MIB as kid is science. He wants to know what is on the other side of the sea. He wants to know if there is more than just the island. He wants to explore, discover, know what the light is, use it, leave the place and discover where he comes from, why there are magnetic fields and how he can use them to get to his goal. He is like the Dharma initiative, like Jack, like Faraday. He wants to find a way to leave, a way to change things and won't quit, even if it will take him 2000 years.
Jacob as kid is religion. He just accepts there is a light to protect and doesn't need to know what it is. He accepts that the island is all there is and that it needs protection. He follows mother.

But in the end Jacob is the one who will leave the island regularly and who believes that not all men are bad and observes them, first the people his brother lives with, from the top of the hill. Later from the lighthouse. He brings them to the island, takes them away from their lifes and uses them. He starts a game to prove his brother and mother wrong and traps his brother on the island.
I think he uses the light to leave the island and to heal people.

There is too much information missing. The final episodes have to be filled with Jacob and MIB backflashes to understand how Jacob leaves the island, what powers he has, how he became Ilana's like a father, how he selected the candidates, how he numbers them and what the numbers are, where he got the leaders and others, what their function is, why he ordered the purge, why no babies can be born on the island, since when, why Walt, Desmond and Aaron are special, how he or MIB was trapped in the cabin, what Jughead did, what the Swan was and a lot more. To answer from now on every sentence spoken in the next episodes has to be an answer.
I only hope that MIB will finally be able to leave that place.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: jugdish on May 14, 2010, 07:14:14 AM
This is really interesting how this buzz about the end is playing out among the fans.

The producers created a show and an internet environment around it unlike anything ever before. Sure shows have sites where fans discuss the show, but Lost producers jumped in and created fake sites for Oceanic Airline and hid stuff in it! They invited us to play a game. We accepted. We watched each episode faithfully and hunted for Easter Eggs in the earlier seasons, posting screencaps of numbers and people in each others' backstories. We proposed theories and discussed them here and at other sites. The producers gave us more online content, more puzzles, more games to play with, even books to read. They dangled the carrot and we followed. For six years we've played the game and now it's coming to an end.

I think some of the fans are tired of playing the game and just want it to be over.
I think there are other fans who want to "win" the game and finally know all the hidden stuff, to find the hidden treasure, if you will. They kind of feel that the producers owe them this because of the buzz they helped feed and create about the show on television and online as well: Here's a mystery, now here's an answer, but another mystery. Lather, rinse, repeat. (But then again, based on that pattern, these fans should know better ;) )

And I'm one of those fans, a little of both really. I hope for a good ending; an ending that does the story and characters justice and does answer the major questions. I would love for it to be mind-blowingly awesome (think Sixth Sense), but don't really think that will happen. There's so much hype about it now anyway, that I figure the best way to watch it is to have no expectations, then I won't be let down.

If I don't like how it ends, I won't consider this six years of my life wasted at all. I learned A LOT of new stuff about philosophers, history, geography, books and time travel.  I used my mind and thought about possibilities, I discussed theories with people and I got to see a lot of shirtless Sawyer.
That can't be all that bad.
This is where a lot of my frustration is coming from. It turns out that all of the easter eggs, all of the online information is not important at all. It would of been cool if some of the stuff we learned on sites like this one ended up being a big piece of the puzzle. It does not look like that is going to happen. I don't hate the show or regret the energy I put into it. The title of this thread is "starting to get nervous". I have to admit that I am starting to get nervous that the show will not deliver, but I am holding out hope and trust in the writers that they still can pull it off.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: lostfan777 on May 14, 2010, 11:57:30 AM
I agree and disagree with too many ideas here to comment on them all.  I'll just say that yeah, I'm getting a little nervous that the end may be a bit of a letdown and there will be too many loose threads left hanging.  But on the other hand, I don't regret the time and energy I've spent on the ride.

I will comment on the debate about the 'others'.  I took from Richard's episode that Jacob decided he needed an 'ambassador' to deal with all the people who would come to the island over the years.  He gave the job to Richard who, conveniently wouldn't need to be replaced every 50 years or so.  From time to time, people came to the island who, although they weren't 'candidate' material, were worthy enough to be taken into the fold to assist Jacob's mission, such as Cindy and the 815 kids.  Children were especially welcome because of their innocence, sometimes at the expense of their rightful guardians.  Eventually, there were enough 'Others' that they needed a leader, although I don't know why Richard wasn't the one and only leader they ever needed.  We used to think the Others must know all the secrets of the island and some of us were surprised to find out that they didn't know much at all.  Even more surprising was that even Richard didn't have the answers.  Then, this past week, we learned that Jacob himself was just another castaway who got the top spot by default and not only is he not a deity of some sort, he's as imperfect as the candidates on his list of replacements.  Sure, I wish we had some more answers to some of the plots that seemed to just fizzle, but I'm content with how they left the story of the Others.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: CastawayCayley on May 14, 2010, 12:53:01 PM
I don't know. I think alot of people are simply disappointed because it's not exactly what they were expecting for the end.

I don't agree. I think most who are having some problems with how this season is unfolding didn't have specific ideas of how the show would end other than thinking we'd get several "Oh, wow" moments that help tie in a lot of the things the show has promoted over the years. Instead, we seem to be getting more than a few "Is that it?" moments lol. If I were to generalize, though, in the same manner you have, I'd say that most of the people who claim that fans are making too big a deal over stuff are really just wanting to defend their favorite show moreso than actually taking into account the validity of the criticisms. Everything is chalked up to fans not being patient enough, not being open enough, to wanting every small minute detail explained in length...funny, but it's never chalked up to the show may have just dropped the ball on occasion. It's ok to say that lol.


I find this very insightful and, in my opinion, correct.

I have absolutely no preconceived notions about what I expected or wanted at the end of this series. I have ALWAYS been about "enjoy where the writers are taking us. Trust them, don't over think it, it will all work out in the end."

And yes, while it may seem like I poke a lot of fun at the show - it's kinda my thing - I do it out of love. Just like in my real family, we may tease the most brutally of all, but let an outsider say anything bad and we will pounce on that outsider and defend our own. Thing is, some of us here are pouncing on "family" and it shouldn't be that way.

We are all entitled to our opinion and for me, the (Dharma) kool-aid drinker, the Woman of Faith (in LOST) and the one who sounds like a nutjob when I gush about the show in real life thought this: This episode was missing something. If I, of all people, found myself losing my focus and having to force myself to pay attention... that's a red flag. I said in chat afterwards, "I don't feel like I understand any better." That's my nutshell moment. Also, I never once jumped off my couch blurting WTF, I never had to force myself to sit back because I was teetering on the edge of my sofa, I never waggled my finger at the screen thinking omgomgomg!... (Lost is an aerobic workout for me...lol) And i did that even during the Nikki and Paulo episode!!! ;)

The stakes have never been higher. It's ok to have high expectations in these last shows especially since they've been telling us for years they have had this worked out all along. I still believe this was the set-up show to some sort of huge reveal and it will all make perfect sense... But if on May 23rd I'm staring blankly at the screen saying, "I still don't feel like I understand any better" than I am allowed to feel disappointed and not lose any of my Loyal Fan Cred.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: ozman776 on May 14, 2010, 01:15:27 PM
some things are already starting to "tie In" from seasons 1-3....
* burning of colleen = smokey cant use her body
* ms klughs "list" to micheal was jack/kate/hurley/sawyer (guess who washed up on the beach after the sub)
i imagine theres some more which im too tired to research but i have a new found lust to rewatch the previous season dvd's once this is all over.... it may have skipped off the rails IMHO when it went away from the others/dharma/hatches etc... but i guess it was always about the MAIN CHARACTERS in the end, and probably not much more....
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: lostfan777 on May 14, 2010, 02:30:24 PM
some things are already starting to "tie In" from seasons 1-3....
* burning of colleen = smokey cant use her body
* ms klughs "list" to micheal was jack/kate/hurley/sawyer (guess who washed up on the beach after the sub)
i imagine theres some more which im too tired to research but i have a new found lust to rewatch the previous season dvd's once this is all over.... it may have skipped off the rails IMHO when it went away from the others/dharma/hatches etc... but i guess it was always about the MAIN CHARACTERS in the end, and probably not much more....

Except that Jack wasn't supposed to be on that list, according to Mr. friendly.  That was one of the times Ben was using Jacob's name for his own benefit because he needed Jack to save his life.  Correct me, someone, if I'm remembering incorrectly.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: frasier9 on May 14, 2010, 02:40:57 PM
MIB doesnt take over bodies, he somehow copies its image.  his ow body ise the skelaton Adam, locke is still in his coffin, only unanswered one is jACKS FATHER BUT I HAVE A FEELING WE'LL FIND HIS BODY TOO IN THE FINALE FOR jACK TO BURY...
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: lostfan777 on May 14, 2010, 02:52:15 PM
MIB doesnt take over bodies, he somehow copies its image.  his ow body ise the skelaton Adam, locke is still in his coffin, only unanswered one is jACKS FATHER BUT I HAVE A FEELING WE'LL FIND HIS BODY TOO IN THE FINALE FOR jACK TO BURY...

In the finale, Jack and Desmond enter the cave of light, chased by Smokey.  And once inside, they find Christian sitting in a Holy Hot Tub with a drink in his hand as usual!   ;D
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 14, 2010, 02:53:19 PM
MIB doesnt take over bodies, he somehow copies its image.  his ow body ise the skelaton Adam, locke is still in his coffin, only unanswered one is jACKS FATHER BUT I HAVE A FEELING WE'LL FIND HIS BODY TOO IN THE FINALE FOR jACK TO BURY...

In the finale, Jack and Desmond enter the cave of light, chased by Smokey.  And once inside, they find Christian sitting in a Holy Hot Tub with a drink in his hand as usual!   ;D

A Mojito
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: WhatThe on May 14, 2010, 04:24:22 PM
MIB doesnt take over bodies, he somehow copies its image.  his ow body ise the skelaton Adam, locke is still in his coffin, only unanswered one is jACKS FATHER BUT I HAVE A FEELING WE'LL FIND HIS BODY TOO IN THE FINALE FOR jACK TO BURY...

In the finale, Jack and Desmond enter the cave of light, chased by Smokey.  And once inside, they find Christian sitting in a Holy Hot Tub with a drink in his hand as usual!   ;D

So there's a Hot Tub Time Machine in the cave of light..I knew it!
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 14, 2010, 04:25:47 PM
MIB doesnt take over bodies, he somehow copies its image.  his ow body ise the skelaton Adam, locke is still in his coffin, only unanswered one is jACKS FATHER BUT I HAVE A FEELING WE'LL FIND HIS BODY TOO IN THE FINALE FOR jACK TO BURY...

In the finale, Jack and Desmond enter the cave of light, chased by Smokey.  And once inside, they find Christian sitting in a Holy Hot Tub with a drink in his hand as usual!   ;D

So there's a Hot Tub Time Machine in the cave of light..I knew it!

Yeah and the one armed George McFly is the Key to EVERYTHING.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: Creflo on May 14, 2010, 04:29:39 PM
This is where a lot of my frustration is coming from. It turns out that all of the easter eggs, all of the online information is not important at all. It would of been cool if some of the stuff we learned on sites like this one ended up being a big piece of the puzzle. It does not look like that is going to happen.

For me, the extry material was there for the hounds like us who want as much from the show as possible.  If it wasn't for this kind of dedication by TPTB, I wouldn't have found this forum (searching for the Blast Door Map right after it was first shown).  I feel this material complements the on-air concepts rather than establishing new threads.

We were shown a DHARMA film in a cool "WTF is this?" way early in Season 2.  It broached the subject, establishing its goals and a brief history.

The Lost Experience got into all that Hanso stuff which was not that important at the time, but with further revelation about the Hanso family in subsequent episodes, we can put 2 + 2 together.  Folks who didn't pursue those online answers were fine to continue with the show and didn't miss a thing.

But we, faithful constant viewers, have the information to piece together DHARMA history to what I feel is a satisfactory degree with a beginning, middle and end.

Non sarcastic question:  What else do you think needs to be said about DHARMA?
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: WhatThe on May 14, 2010, 04:38:36 PM
I don't know. I think alot of people are simply disappointed because it's not exactly what they were expecting for the end.

I don't agree. I think most who are having some problems with how this season is unfolding didn't have specific ideas of how the show would end other than thinking we'd get several "Oh, wow" moments that help tie in a lot of the things the show has promoted over the years. Instead, we seem to be getting more than a few "Is that it?" moments lol. If I were to generalize, though, in the same manner you have, I'd say that most of the people who claim that fans are making too big a deal over stuff are really just wanting to defend their favorite show moreso than actually taking into account the validity of the criticisms. Everything is chalked up to fans not being patient enough, not being open enough, to wanting every small minute detail explained in length...funny, but it's never chalked up to the show may have just dropped the ball on occasion. It's ok to say that lol.


I find this very insightful and, in my opinion, correct.

I have absolutely no preconceived notions about what I expected or wanted at the end of this series. I have ALWAYS been about "enjoy where the writers are taking us. Trust them, don't over think it, it will all work out in the end."

And yes, while it may seem like I poke a lot of fun at the show - it's kinda my thing - I do it out of love. Just like in my real family, we may tease the most brutally of all, but let an outsider say anything bad and we will pounce on that outsider and defend our own. Thing is, some of us here are pouncing on "family" and it shouldn't be that way.

We are all entitled to our opinion and for me, the (Dharma) kool-aid drinker, the Woman of Faith (in LOST) and the one who sounds like a nutjob when I gush about the show in real life thought this: This episode was missing something. If I, of all people, found myself losing my focus and having to force myself to pay attention... that's a red flag. I said in chat afterwards, "I don't feel like I understand any better." That's my nutshell moment. Also, I never once jumped off my couch blurting WTF, I never had to force myself to sit back because I was teetering on the edge of my sofa, I never waggled my finger at the screen thinking omgomgomg!... (Lost is an aerobic workout for me...lol) And i did that even during the Nikki and Paulo episode!!! ;)

The stakes have never been higher. It's ok to have high expectations in these last shows especially since they've been telling us for years they have had this worked out all along. I still believe this was the set-up show to some sort of huge reveal and it will all make perfect sense... But if on May 23rd I'm staring blankly at the screen saying, "I still don't feel like I understand any better" than I am allowed to feel disappointed and not lose any of my Loyal Fan Cred.

This is a great post. You put it extremely well  :) Especially this part: " It's ok to have high expectations in these last shows especially since they've been telling us for years they have had this worked out all along."

There were times in the past where I started believing that they were just making stuff up as they went along...which in all honesty every single show in the history of television has done. "Lost", however, is the type of show that absolutely needs a beginning and an "end", and there haven't been too many shows on TV that you can say that about (if any). And the writers and creators of "Lost" have all along taken a stance of "Try and figure out what's really happening with the clues we're giving out"...which is more than fine. But it starts becoming frustrating when we realize that half the clues they gave out either weren't clues at all, or were abandoned or forgotten along the way. It tends to make me once again say "I knew they were making half this crap up as they went along" lol...and I really didn't want that to be a thought I had during the last season.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: lostfan777 on May 14, 2010, 04:40:03 PM
Non sarcastic question:  What else do you think needs to be said about DHARMA?


My only issue with Dharma was that after the purge, the food drops continued, but no one from off the island ever figured out that something went wrong and came to investigate?  Also, I thought the Dharma angle was a pretty cool sci-fi way they could have gone, which was in a different direction altogether from where they ended up going.  They should start a new series just about Dharma......oh wait, there's already Fringe, never mind!
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: WhatThe on May 14, 2010, 05:01:45 PM
This is where a lot of my frustration is coming from. It turns out that all of the easter eggs, all of the online information is not important at all. It would of been cool if some of the stuff we learned on sites like this one ended up being a big piece of the puzzle. It does not look like that is going to happen.

For me, the extry material was there for the hounds like us who want as much from the show as possible.  If it wasn't for this kind of dedication by TPTB, I wouldn't have found this forum (searching for the Blast Door Map right after it was first shown).  I feel this material complements the on-air concepts rather than establishing new threads.

We were shown a DHARMA film in a cool "WTF is this?" way early in Season 2.  It broached the subject, establishing its goals and a brief history.

The Lost Experience got into all that Hanso stuff which was not that important at the time, but with further revelation about the Hanso family in subsequent episodes, we can put 2 + 2 together.  Folks who didn't pursue those online answers were fine to continue with the show and didn't miss a thing.

But we, faithful constant viewers, have the information to piece together DHARMA history to what I feel is a satisfactory degree with a beginning, middle and end.

Non sarcastic question:  What else do you think needs to be said about DHARMA?


With me, I never did any of that online Dharma stuff, other than I think I "joined" Dharma by signing up at this one website (it was actually a very well-done site, too). So I count myself among those who just followed "Lost" without delving into all the extra stuff. But the fact that I knew there was all that extra stuff centered around Dharma out there that the show's creators put out for viewers to explore had me (and apparently a lot of others) believing that Dharma must be a pretty central figure in all the proceedings...especially their mysterious, enigmatic figureheads and leaders, especially when "Lost" showed them to have enormous power and incredible amounts of money at their disposal--fake an entire plane crash, complete with dead bodies? Oh, they're powerful, alright! But then we find out that Widmore faked the crash, not Dharma...and that Dharma really wasn't anything mysterious or enigmatic, they just dug a hole in the wrong place, is all lol. If they don't build the swan hatch Dharma's existence is rather dull in the grand scheme of the story. What a letdown, because there were SOOOOO many great possibilities going on concerning Dharma and its role in the mysteries of the island.

I tell you, when Locke and Boone found that underground hatch, when Locke was pounding on it in the middle of the night in frustration and a light went on from inside it...when the numbers appeared on the side of the hatch...when they finally blew the door off the hatch and peered down inside the creepy darkness of the entryway...man, I was hooked on whatever this thing was and how it came into being on this incredibly mysterious "spit of land in the middle of nowhere". I couldn't wait to find out its origins, who built it, why it was there, etc...because I knew what we'd find out was gonna be captivating and intriguing, and was going to go a long way in explaining things.

It's quite the letdown, though, to discover that it was just a bunch of people, 99% of them just working stiffs who had zero clue as to what was going on. They didn't even introduce anyone within the island Dharma people who could be said to be a leader who knows far more than anyone else about Dharma and the island. All the mystery and enigmatic aspects of Dharma were just gone. Now I find myself wondering why they seemed to give so much importance to Dharma during the first several seasons. Was the importance of Dharma, like Walt and (maybe) Aaron, just sort of abandoned along the way as the show's creators solidified how they wanted the show to end?

By contrast, Jacob's name kept coming up again and again, and we all figured that this "Jacob" character would end up being central to the overall story...and we were right. Dharma possible role in everything was given even more play early on in the series' run, but it fizzled out.

So maybe nothing else needs to be explained about Dharma, but what they DID explain about Dharma was underwhelming in my eyes. They just underused an incredibly effective component of the show.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: Creflo on May 14, 2010, 05:11:58 PM
Yes.  The pallet drop is a big unanswered question, and we deserve to know the answer.

There are several possible ones which, though far-fetched, would not turn folks off.

Other than that, I feel like we were given all we need:

- 19th century Magnus Hanso hits The Island
- 1967+ Grandson Alvar founds DHARMA
- 1970s we see DHARMA recruits, barracks, experiments, security
- 1992? DHARMA is purged

I consider the case closed on DHARMA. 

And WhatThe: the information provided by the extracurricular content concerning the purpose and formation of DHARMA is pretty thorough IMO.  But, because TPTB knew that DHARMA wasn't the real force of control of The Island, they didn't waste as much valuable on-air time discussing the details.

They focused on the Others instead.  DHARMA was an obstacle to The Island's ultimate ends.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: ozman776 on May 14, 2010, 06:35:10 PM
some things are already starting to "tie In" from seasons 1-3....
* burning of colleen = smokey cant use her body
* ms klughs "list" to micheal was jack/kate/hurley/sawyer (guess who washed up on the beach after the sub)
i imagine theres some more which im too tired to research but i have a new found lust to rewatch the previous season dvd's once this is all over.... it may have skipped off the rails IMHO when it went away from the others/dharma/hatches etc... but i guess it was always about the MAIN CHARACTERS in the end, and probably not much more....

Except that Jack wasn't supposed to be on that list, according to Mr. friendly.  That was one of the times Ben was using Jacob's name for his own benefit because he needed Jack to save his life.  Correct me, someone, if I'm remembering incorrectly.

Mr friendly wasnt as high as ms klugh i believe... he may have said it to get jack to do something, but if the others didnt know who the f*&^ were candidates, then picketts attempt at killing sawyer would have been great to see (being a hand picked unkillable) and i think it would have been amazing to see a season of our 6 doing stuff like micheal trierd to do and not die...
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: WhatThe on May 14, 2010, 06:51:10 PM
Yes.  The pallet drop is a big unanswered question, and we deserve to know the answer.

There are several possible ones which, though far-fetched, would not turn folks off.

Other than that, I feel like we were given all we need:

- 19th century Magnus Hanso hits The Island
- 1967+ Grandson Alvar founds DHARMA
- 1970s we see DHARMA recruits, barracks, experiments, security
- 1992? DHARMA is purged

I consider the case closed on DHARMA. 

And WhatThe: the information provided by the extracurricular content concerning the purpose and formation of DHARMA is pretty thorough IMO.  But, because TPTB knew that DHARMA wasn't the real force of control of The Island, they didn't waste as much valuable on-air time discussing the details.

They focused on the Others instead.  DHARMA was an obstacle to The Island's ultimate ends.

Like I said, though, we don't necessarily need more "details" about Dharma...they just underused and more or less abandoned a VERY intriguing storyline. The theories that fans came up with while trying to figure everything out were incredible. They actually would have made the show even better. I can't for the life of me understand why the writers decided to have Dharma end up being so freakin' ordinary. Because Dharma was absolutely nothing special in any way, shape or form when all was said and done. Daniel? He was special. Desmond? He's special. Jack? Definitely looks to be extra special. Smokie? Yep. Jacob? Yep.

Dharma? Yawn. Aren't we glad we spent so much time investigating all the aspects of Dharma and trying to get to know more info about people who started, funded and run Dharma who have zero importance to the island and the show's storyline? lol

And what about the "incident"? What the hell WAS the "incident", anyway? It wasn't the bomb going off, because the training video mentions that it was not pushing the button that caused the incident and that they didn't want that to happen a second time. Will that ever be explained?

And what about the people in the Pearl station? They were told that the people in the Swan hatch were not actually doing anything important, and to just monitor them. Why were they told this? And weren't the people who were stationed in Pearl around when the "incident" occurred? If so, wouldn't that make it kind of hard to convince them that the people in the Swan hatch aren't doing anything important? lol
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: BurkRoyer on May 14, 2010, 07:02:31 PM
. . .
I tell you, when Locke and Boone found that underground hatch, when Locke was pounding on it in the middle of the night in frustration and a light went on from inside it...when the numbers appeared on the side of the hatch...when they finally blew the door off the hatch and peered down inside the creepy darkness of the entryway...man, I was hooked on whatever this thing was and how it came into being on this incredibly mysterious "spit of land in the middle of nowhere". I couldn't wait to find out its origins, who built it, why it was there, etc...because I knew what we'd find out was gonna be captivating and intriguing, and was going to go a long way in explaining things.

It's quite the letdown, though, to discover that it was just a bunch of people, 99% of them just working stiffs who had zero clue as to what was going on. They didn't even introduce anyone within the island Dharma people who could be said to be a leader who knows far more than anyone else about Dharma and the island. All the mystery and enigmatic aspects of Dharma were just gone. Now I find myself wondering why they seemed to give so much importance to Dharma during the first several seasons. Was the importance of Dharma, like Walt and (maybe) Aaron, just sort of abandoned along the way as the show's creators solidified how they wanted the show to end?

By contrast, Jacob's name kept coming up again and again, and we all figured that this "Jacob" character would end up being central to the overall story...and we were right. Dharma possible role in everything was given even more play early on in the series' run, but it fizzled out.

So maybe nothing else needs to be explained about Dharma, but what they DID explain about Dharma was underwhelming in my eyes. They just underused an incredibly effective component of the show.

And this is why "Across the Sea" was such a let down for me... now it appears that Jacob and brother are pretty clueless, as well...  They weren't there from the beginning.  I want know the origins of the island (and the light now).  What/Who created it?  Who set the rules?  Jacob just seems like another pathetic pawn now after that episode :(
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: NoraCharles on May 14, 2010, 07:16:20 PM
Yes.  The pallet drop is a big unanswered question, and we deserve to know the answer.

Other than that, I feel like we were given all we need:

I consider the case closed on DHARMA. 

Overall I'd agree too, but DHARMA related, I've still got a whole bunch of questions about Eloise Hawking.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: lostlady on May 14, 2010, 07:21:46 PM
To me the most important question is Eloise Hawking. Who/what is she?????
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: WhatThe on May 14, 2010, 08:23:55 PM
. . .
I tell you, when Locke and Boone found that underground hatch, when Locke was pounding on it in the middle of the night in frustration and a light went on from inside it...when the numbers appeared on the side of the hatch...when they finally blew the door off the hatch and peered down inside the creepy darkness of the entryway...man, I was hooked on whatever this thing was and how it came into being on this incredibly mysterious "spit of land in the middle of nowhere". I couldn't wait to find out its origins, who built it, why it was there, etc...because I knew what we'd find out was gonna be captivating and intriguing, and was going to go a long way in explaining things.

It's quite the letdown, though, to discover that it was just a bunch of people, 99% of them just working stiffs who had zero clue as to what was going on. They didn't even introduce anyone within the island Dharma people who could be said to be a leader who knows far more than anyone else about Dharma and the island. All the mystery and enigmatic aspects of Dharma were just gone. Now I find myself wondering why they seemed to give so much importance to Dharma during the first several seasons. Was the importance of Dharma, like Walt and (maybe) Aaron, just sort of abandoned along the way as the show's creators solidified how they wanted the show to end?

By contrast, Jacob's name kept coming up again and again, and we all figured that this "Jacob" character would end up being central to the overall story...and we were right. Dharma possible role in everything was given even more play early on in the series' run, but it fizzled out.

So maybe nothing else needs to be explained about Dharma, but what they DID explain about Dharma was underwhelming in my eyes. They just underused an incredibly effective component of the show.

And this is why "Across the Sea" was such a let down for me... now it appears that Jacob and brother are pretty clueless, as well...  They weren't there from the beginning.  I want know the origins of the island (and the light now).  What/Who created it?  Who set the rules?  Jacob just seems like another pathetic pawn now after that episode :(

I felt the same way about Ben as you described about Jacob. I thought Ben would turn out to have quite a few answers and somehow be instrumental in helping the audience understand quite a bit about the island. Turns out he's just a pawn as well, nothing really of much value to add to the proceedings at this point. They took one incredible tv character and emasculated him, taking away everything that captivated us about Ben (his knowledge of the mysteries of the island, his incredible ability to manipulate, his "connection" to things greater than what the rest of the characters understood, etc.) and now he's just one of dozens of clueless goofs roaming around the jungle lol.

They even did that to Locke to a real extent: he's now just a foolish loser whose only importance in the overall story is that his body gets to be used by Smokie. Even MiB ridiculed Locke to Ben--and again, to the viewing audience--as being a pathetic nobody who foolishly believed in giving everything over to the idea of the island and would be rewarded for it...and whose last words--"I don't understand"--was worth mocking.

If you replace Locke with the viewing audience and MiB with the show's writers, and then replay that last part again in your head, it might tell you a lot lol :D...
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: CaseyMac on May 15, 2010, 12:59:24 AM
I don't agree. I think most who are having some problems with how this season is unfolding didn't have specific ideas of how the show would end other than thinking we'd get several "Oh, wow" moments that help tie in a lot of the things the show has promoted over the years. Instead, we seem to be getting more than a few "Is that it?" moments lol. If I were to generalize, though, in the same manner you have, I'd say that most of the people who claim that fans are making too big a deal over stuff are really just wanting to defend their favorite show moreso than actually taking into account the validity of the criticisms.

First, how many answers to questions have given you that "Oh Wow, what a great complete final answer"? Can you name even one? I mean, some of the biggest "Oh wow" moments, and there have been alot, merely create a whole megaton of new questions. Some that I can think off the top of my head are, the beginning of season 2 and we see the inside of the Hatch, or the Season 3 Finale "We have to go back Kate!" or the Season 3 premiere when we first see the Barracks, or the end of Season 1 "We're gonna have to take the boy" All of these "Oh wow WTF" moments are partially great because they open an entirely new world and new set of questions that takes the show in a new direction. None of them wrap things up in a final bow. Now, I may be missing some, but those are my all time "OH WOW" moments and thats partly why they are what they are.

Now, I will definitely conceed the point that I may be defending the show out of blind loyalty. I just like the show so much that my enjoyment is pretty unconditional, and even if the series finale breaks out into a tap dancing musical number, you might find me here saying how amazingly awesome it was. So, thats why I go on to explain why I enjoy it, instead of just saying "You're dumb. It's good". So, when you or somebody else brings up a particular criticism, and I don't agree with it, I'll explain why. Doesn't mean we will then agree, it will just answer the question "What freaking show is CaseyMac watching if he sees that?"


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There have been a ton of times in Lost where we think something may be vitally important and game changing, but as time goes on, we find out, it wasn't that major. I mean, remember when the biggest thing was "how are they going to find food now that the Oceanic 815 food carts are empty"?

Actually, no I don't remember that being a real issue for anyone lol...especially on an island full of fruit, the occasional wild boar, and an ocean full of fish. 

Season 1, Episode 4: Walkabout. Might want to rewatch it. This show has evolved immensely, which is what has kept my interest.


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The Sun/Widmore alliance, well it took all of 1 scene to create, and it had a pretty major impact on a vital scene that we saw played out from 3 different points of view on the dock. I think using 1 scene to create that kind of gun pointing suspense was worth it. Plus it had the major reveal to Sun that Jin was still alive.

How in the world did Sun confronting Widmore play ANY role in the dock scene?

It created alot of suspense. If it wasn't for the reveal of Sun telling Widmore that she wanted Ben dead, we wouldn't have known until she pulls out the gun on the dock. No suspense involved. It's like what Alfred Hitchcock said about the difference between action and suspense. In action you show an explosion in a restaurant, but in suspense you show the bomb with the timer underneath the table first. Basically, you have to create the mood.

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The Dharma thing, you are not alone. I think there are alot of fans that would have been happy with Lost being about the Dharma Initiative.

You are missing some vital points,  here. For starters, the food drops, barracks and hydra did not play vital roles in the show. We were lead to believe they would...but what is occurring right now that could not have occurred if the food drops never occurred? What is occurring right now that could not have occurred if they lived somewhere else other than the barracks after the purge? Nothing. And if they never went to the Hydra? Nothing.

This is another case where I fundamentally disagree. Those places were the settings. I mean theoretically, every scene on this show could have been either on a beach or in a jungle, but that would have been really stale really fast. So they created a setting, and then created a back story to explain the setting. Now, if the food drops never happen, the Episode "Dave" would have lost alot of punch. We learned alot about one of our favorite characters that day, and the food drop was key to that. That alone, is reason enough to have it. As to how it got there...maybe it was timewarped like Faraday's rocket. That works for me.

The show has never been about Dharma, just like it's never been about the numbers. They are pieces of the puzzle, but the show has always been about the characters, hence the awesome story telling device of the flashbacks.

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As for Aaron, the full story has yet to play out, but yeah, I was kind of expecting a larger role for the first baby to be born on the Island for who knows how long.

I don't see how Aaron had a "large effect" on anyone other than Claire and possibly Kate.

I actually agree with you. Ever since the psychic, I thought Aaron was going to be a major importance, and really he is just a plot device for Kate and Claire. He himself does nothing. I didn't exactly expect the kid to fly or shoot laser beams from his eyes, but for him to have some ability.

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As for the Others, we kind of got their orgin story. The first Other was Richard. They are the extension of Jacob being protector of the Island. I just don't think we're going to get a scene that shows The Others High Council sitting around a table discussing diplomacy like it was some Star Trek movie.

You realize, though, that the show has yet to actually explain why the Others exist at all? Not even slightly. Well, that is unless the explanation is "They're just a bunch of people with no real importance other than Richard".

Yup. They are the inhabitants of the Island. Somebody lives there, and it's them. I really don't need more of a "why".

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There's nothing wrong with wishing for them to explain one thing, or expand on another thing, but the show is what it is. And we knew that when they said, "After 6 seasons, we are done." that not everything was going to be expanded on.

That doesn't mean that everything with the show is fine as it is and there are no valid reasons for criticism.

You are right. And I'll repeat what I said to Point Place. It's a free internet, and you can say anything you want. We are all entitled to our opinions, and I have not found 1 thing on this planet that 100% of people agree on. Having said that, if you are in the middle of Lambeau Field, and you get up and say "Lombardi was a lame coach." you will spark a reaction. So, look at the venue and don't act shocked when you spark a reaction to your comments.

So, you can express any criticisim you want, thats part of what these forums are for, and if I disagree, I'll do so in a respectful way and explain why I disagree. It's totally reasonable to watch the same exact thing and walk away with 2 completely different reactions.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: opgelost on May 15, 2010, 07:08:09 AM
And this is why "Across the Sea" was such a let down for me... now it appears that Jacob and brother are pretty clueless, as well...  They weren't there from the beginning.  I want know the origins of the island (and the light now).  What/Who created it?  Who set the rules?  Jacob just seems like another pathetic pawn now after that episode :(

That is exactly what Lost is about and why I love it.
You want to know what is across the sea, like MIB. It's like asking where do we come from? Why do we exist? Do we have a purpose? Where do we go?
I think the light is life, death, rebirth and the heart of the island and we will never know how it started. I would say it was created by
the big bang and there is stardust in every person. Others will say a God created it. But in the end everybody is clueless and we just choose what to believe and what to protect.

The rules are set by Jacob when he created his own game of bringing people to the island to prove MIB wrong.

I believe we will still get some answers about Dharma. At least what Jughead did and why the purge was ordered.
In the end everything needs to fit. The fertilityproblem, the sidetime, Dharma, the numbers, the sunken island, etc.
It's too early to complain if we don't know the end yet. Let's wait another week.
Title: Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 15, 2010, 01:26:56 PM
The fertilityproblem

I solved that one. http://lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php/topic,11000.0.html (http://lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php/topic,11000.0.html)  And Why the statue was built too.