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SWLS News & Info => Official Polls => Topic started by: CastawayCayley on May 11, 2010, 07:39:18 PM

Title: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: CastawayCayley on May 11, 2010, 07:39:18 PM
Please rate the episode and then discuss why you felt the way you did.
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: razzle-dazzle on May 11, 2010, 11:15:14 PM
I gave it a 5. I have more questions than I got answers.
No Jack, no Sawyer, no Kate, no Hugo, no Ben. Too confusing. I could have skipped this episode and read a recap.
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: lostlady on May 11, 2010, 11:34:57 PM
I gave it a 6 as I feel I got more questions than answers. There are only 3 hours left of this show and I expected a lot more from this episode.
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: jugdish on May 12, 2010, 12:07:13 AM
Right now I give it a 3. Might be my lowest ever. Will watch it again before I give concrete rating. The whole time I was thinking WTF is this. Answers given and raising 6 more question at the same time. 3rd last ep ever and we get this wandering non commited episode. I was very disappointed in the episode. Still have no idea about what they are doing now in the story. How did Jacob come about bringing these people, when did the rules come in to play, what would happen if the candidates leave. I don't know, just did not give me the clairity I was looking for.
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: JBRam on May 12, 2010, 12:18:31 AM
I give it a 9 because the WTF factor was so high that I stared at the TV screen for a full minute after the show was over, completely dumbfounded. I haven't done that since Season 3.
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: jugdish on May 12, 2010, 12:21:24 AM
I give it a 9 because the WTF factor was so high that I stared at the TV screen for a full minute after the show was over, completely dumbfounded. I haven't done that since Season 3.
Why is this a good thing at this time. 3.5 hours left and you are happy with not knowing what is going on?? To late in the series for a key episode to end with a big WTF.
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: ozman776 on May 12, 2010, 12:32:16 AM
gave it a 1 cause i cant find the ZERO option
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: jugdish on May 12, 2010, 12:33:02 AM
A point or two for the adam and eve answer?
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: ozman776 on May 12, 2010, 12:42:13 AM
adam/eve lost points cause now it seems incestuous
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: razzle-dazzle on May 12, 2010, 06:29:38 AM
adam/eve lost points cause now it seems incestuous

She wasn't their real mother, so it's just semi-incestuous.
Also didn't Jack say the bodies had been there like 50 years? I mean, I assume they were Romans. Spoke Latin and all. We're talking over a thousand years, maybe 2 thousand. That's a little more than 50. So because they were special, they didn't decay at the same rate?
The more I think about this episode, the more I wish I could change my vote and go to a three.
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: Ladybug on May 12, 2010, 10:08:42 AM
wow, y'all didn't like it?  i gave it a 10, i loved it.  back to island history, adam & eve answer, how smokey became smokey answer.  loved it. 
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: Kurtis on May 12, 2010, 12:06:25 PM
I gave it a 5, which is probably as low as I have rated an episode. It would have rated probably a 7 or 8 if it was earlier in the season, but I'm frustrated that we have one more episode before the season finale and we don't have a clue about...

Why the Smoke can't leave the island, and what has to happen to let it go.
What would happen if the Smoke got off the island.
Why the Smoke takes human form at all, and why it makes mechanical noises and is averse to electromagnetism.
Why the Smoke Monster has to abide by the same rules about not harming Jacob that applied to Brother, who is lying dead and slowly decomposing in a cave.
Why Jacob could be killed by Ben...was or wasn't he made immortal by Fake Mom.
Who is Fake Mom, and why is she so powerful. Is she a witch? A God or demigod? Is she as evil as she appeared to be or just nuts from having to guard this wacky island with its all powerful light source?
Who finished the Donkey Wheel.
The statue of Taweret, the Temple, and the hieroglyphs in the tunnels.
How and why are people drawn to the island before Jacob became the protector of the island/light.
Why the Candidates? Jacob didn't appear to even understand why he had to protect the island. Why is he looking for a replacement? Did he know he would die? Does dying allow him to leave his post as protector, which he didn't want in the first place? If so, why did he want to prove to the Smoke that mankind isn't inherently corruptible?
What does "it only ends once" refer to?
Most importantly, why Jack doesn't have the same haircut on Oceanic Flight 815 version 2 as he did on Oceanic Flight 815, version 1.
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 12, 2010, 01:18:21 PM
I gave it a six as feeling kind, but as Kurtis and Juggy said too many questions left with only two episodes to go. Kurtis made a great list and I would add why did Jacob stop aging? Was it because Jacob drank the wine? Obviously crazy Mom (loved that Allison Janney from The West Wing and of late In Plain Sight was cast),so if immortal like his "mom" seemed to be as she was so grateful when MIb killed her, he fall sinott his weird rule of a lophole, we still don't knoww aht that is.
So when his brother comes to visit him, he is really smokey taking the shape of hs brother dumb, when MIB saw his  real Mom was that Smokey? So when Hurely sees jacob is that Smokey?
So how did jacob learn about the mysteries of the island, how did he know about the temples, when were the temples and the statues built? Who brought Dharma, who decided to slaughter Dharma?  Who was trapped in Jacob's cabin, why didn't Ilana go to the temple first as the answer to the riddle was Jacob. How do you trap a smoke monster?
My head is swimming with all these questions and I think I know they will not be answered by May 23rd. Soprano type ending being more and more expected.
it was a huge wtf episode
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: Suzanne4au2 on May 12, 2010, 02:03:36 PM
I don't really know what to rate it. I usually wait and see if there is good debate going on in the threads and there is for this one. I have to agree with Juggy though, and add I think this episode could have been thrown in at any point in the series(just what I think, don't shoot me). So I am torn for a rating...not a 1 because I was entertained but not a 10 because it didn't blow me away.

I ended up giving it a 5. Right down the middle.  ;D
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: MachThree on May 12, 2010, 02:22:16 PM
I gave it a 3.  Awkward script, poor acting.  Mom & the two kids were horribly acted, IMHO.  Adult Jacob and MiB not much better but I think the script bordered on absurd, so I can't blame any of them.

But this was an episode that was supposed to give answers.  It fell flat on its face.  All the answers, in true Lost fashion, only raised more questions or just didn't really answer the issue satisfactorily.  And the whole "in your face, doubters!" Adam and Eve flashback was unnecessary and hooky. 

 
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: MachThree on May 12, 2010, 02:24:02 PM
I give it a 9 because the WTF factor was so high that I stared at the TV screen for a full minute after the show was over, completely dumbfounded. I haven't done that since Season 3.
Usually when Lost leaves me dumbfounded, its because they just revealed something so very profound.  I was dubmfounded last night, mainly because they revealed things in a way that they either seemed unimportant, or raised more questions.  I'm dumbfounded that they pulled that crap in the 3rd to last episode and one that's supposed to be so important.
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: Cardacct on May 12, 2010, 02:54:59 PM
I gave it a 5.  It wasn't a horrible episode, but I felt like the episode could have been done in a shorter period of time.  And it was almost like a different show again because the characters weren't the same.  Clearly, this episode was important to the entire storyline, but I guess I'm just not very invested in those characters.  And really, I'm kind of tired of the repetitive storyline of people needing to be on the island to protect it.  Yeah, we got that in season 2.  Carry on.  They answered the Adam/Eve and Smoky questions, but now I am left to wonder, "who cares?"
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: jinfan on May 12, 2010, 08:39:56 PM
I gave it an 8. I liked the way it ALL seems relative. I think it should have been titled Raised By Another. :D
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: Sunflower on May 13, 2010, 01:24:57 AM
Hated it, what a disappointment.  We only have 3.5 hours left.
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: Madam P on May 13, 2010, 08:33:01 AM
I gave it a 5.  It was an OK episode, maybe even awesome in parts, just not for three episodes from the end.  I think we (deservedly) expected more.  Yeah, it answered some stuff, and I was glad to get the Adam/Eve answer, but as everyone says... for every question answered, there's four more new ones, and it's getting kinda late in the game for that.  All the questions that we previously had with regards to Jacob's / MIB's motives... well, we still have them, only now they've been transferred to Crazy Mom because apparently they were just the next step from her, and she probably had a previous step before her as well.  I was hoping we'd be getting back to the root of it in this episode.

I loved the first few segments because I thought it was starting off strong, but then when I realized we were 45 minutes into it and it wasn't looking like any major answers were coming...
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: conway on May 14, 2010, 03:21:17 PM
I agree with Kurdis's posting...very well organized. I am quite detailed oriented and can not understand why the "mother" killed the twins' mother since how did she expect to feed newborn babies?  I saw no  CVS with formula and bottles
 nor cows running around the island.And how did they avoid being found by a group of people on the island for 30 years?
I gave this episode a 5 since it explained  a few things and in my mind Smokey in LocKe's body can no longer be called MIB. MIB died and Smokey took his form.
I guess Flocke is now a better name. I thought it was very slow and could have
provided more answers  if the pace of the episode moved better...and had FEWER commercials.  egad
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 14, 2010, 03:31:46 PM

I gave this episode a 5 since it explained  a few things and in my mind Smokey in LocKe's body can no longer be called MIB. MIB died and Smokey took his form.


Except that Jacob can't kill his brother, so Jacob''s actions cannot directly lead to the supposed death of MiB. Also, entering will cause "A Fate Worse Than Death", not "A Fate Just As Bad As Death, Beacuse Its...Death". MiB Lives on in the form of everything in him that was evil, and therefore notsucked out by the Light.
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: laklost on May 14, 2010, 10:06:22 PM
wow, y'all didn't like it?  i gave it a 10, i loved it.  back to island history, adam & eve answer, how smokey became smokey answer.  loved it. 


This is where I am, Buggy.  I've been waiting for that well of light protected by a guardian ever since Locke said in Walkabout that he had seen the eye of the island and that it was beautiful.  This episode to me was perfect (although the comments about the acting I might agree with...it was all very off, kind of stiff).  I loved:

* the guardian/mother's desperate actions yet how she loved the boys
* that MIB never got named
* them being twins -  epic story device
* every character's motivations were completely believable
* the argument between faith and science was perfectly encapsulated in the brother's argument about the island's powers
* I agree with the mother that the power on the island has to be protected by all means, and I am finally on board with there needing to be a guardian
* the birth of Smiokey was EPIC
* I am so glad that Adam and Eve are none of our chraacters
* the stage is set for the rebirth of John Locke and the return of Christan Shepherd.
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: E.S.B. on May 15, 2010, 04:31:41 PM
I gave it a 7. There was a lot I liked about it (see Lakie's post above). I also liked how it gave a nuanced view of good vs. evil in terms of Jacob and MiB.

What i was disappointed with is they did not show any thing from the next 1500 years. And that is where we wouldve got the answers we were really looking for. Why is Jacob resposible for keeping smokey on the Island? Why does MiB hate Jacob so much? It seemed Jacob was pretty clueless- how did he learn so much about the Island? Etc. 
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: jugdish on May 16, 2010, 08:31:00 PM
Final rating a 4. Watched again last night. Not any better the second tiime around.

Protecting a light?? Really a light?
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: E.S.B. on May 17, 2010, 10:30:21 AM
Final rating a 4. Watched again last night. Not any better the second tiime around.

Protecting a light?? Really a light?
What would you rather they be protecting?
Or would you have preferred they not tell us?
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: lostlady on May 17, 2010, 11:20:48 AM
I watched it again this weekend and afterwards liked it much better than the first time. Coming to this website for more clarification and then watching it again I feel I understand it much better.
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: BurkRoyer on May 17, 2010, 02:14:16 PM
Final rating a 4. Watched again last night. Not any better the second tiime around.

Protecting a light?? Really a light?

YES!  A light of which a small portion is in every being... and if the main light goes out, then it goes out everywhere!!!  We must protect the light!!!!!

Drink some of the this kool-aid and you'll be the same as me ;)
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: E.S.B. on May 17, 2010, 04:39:41 PM
One light goes out....   they all go out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 17, 2010, 04:44:47 PM
Final rating a 4. Watched again last night. Not any better the second tiime around.

Protecting a light?? Really a light?

YES!  A light of which a small portion is in every being... and if the main light goes out, then it goes out everywhere!!!  We must protect the light!!!!!

Drink some of the this kool-aid and you'll be the same as me ;)

See LOST has always had this mystical feel to it, and then when the whole reasoning for the show (Protecting the Light of Humanity) holds true to the Mystical Nature, people are unhappy with it. Not really trying to be a prick here, but what would we rather see as the reason for protecting the Island. If we are griping about the fact that the Island needs to be protecting then that is a disagreement about where the whole promise of the show should be going. If we are on board with the Island needing a protector, Protecting the Light of Humanity seems to me to be as Noble a cause as one can get, and it kind of goes hand in hand with the themes we have seen underlining our characters over the last 5.75 seasons. This is one of the circumstances where I think the writers clearly had a theme in mind for the show from day 1 and they have carried it out. Along the way there were things introduced to us that we wanted to have a central purpose to the show. When those things (The Numbers) didn't pan out to have immense central meaning we griped about that. I am really trying not to be too much of a prick, but I think this was an episode that confused some people. People aren't very happy about what we were shown, as far as answers, but they aren't really sure what they wanted to see instead.

I can honestly say that my favorite part of the Lost experience is taking the things we see on the show and figuring them out for myself. When I put together my theory on the reasoning behind the statue and the fertility issue I was so excited. If TPTB came out and told me that answer straight out I would have lost that moment that was so exhilerating for me, and it would have taken something away from what makes Lost so great. I understand how some people don't really like the way the Light was presented, but it was an answer that NEEDED to be given. I think they did a good job of it too. They answered why the Island needs to be protected, but didn't try to give us a big elaborate analysis of it. The detailed analysis of Lost is left up to us, which is why we love the show so much.
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: E.S.B. on May 17, 2010, 04:57:30 PM
Very well put, I_am_Jacob.

I think the writers tried to address certain questions that tied into central themes and ideas, and it worked for some of us and not for others.  From the beginning we always wanted to know why the castaways were on the Island, were they brought there on purpose or by coincidence, and why was the Island important.  They have tried to address this through the season 6 storyline, starting with the S5 finale.  I will certainly give them credit for boldly attempting to tell a story like that.

For me, the light kind of worked, and kind of didn't work.  I didn't need it; but I'm okay with it and willing to roll with it and move past it.  I am pretty confident that the final 3 1/2 hours of the show will be better for all - more action-packed, more character-based and focused on the redemption of our characters who we have cared about for 6 years.  Remember back when the show was all about redemption?  Ahh, the good ole days...
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: conway on May 18, 2010, 12:37:14 PM
There are excellent arguments as to why people loved this episode as to why people did not.
I think I was expecting something on the order of ab aeterno which overall everyone loved. The answers were there, Richard's acting amazing and it did not leave us with 20 additional  questions.  The fact that we had no time frame in this episode was frustrating whereas in Richard's they gave us a specific date and place. Even Danielle's flashback that we were looking forward to did not leave us with more questions, except that the group came out of the  cave??? with the illness which made them act so irrationally that Danielle had to kill them. That sickness though attributed to Sayid and Claire has  been left on the back burner.
So I believe that was the major frustration of "Across the Sea".  It moved slowly
and  provided more questions than answers Questions that the writers seem not interesting in answering. With so many Egyptian elements on the island I was astonished that no reference was made concerning them..Let us hope tonight's episode is better and is not a bloodbath where all our Losties die.
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 18, 2010, 01:02:51 PM
You see Charlie, (As in Charlie Conway of Triple Deek Fame) I think they have already given us the Egyptian answers. We just have to know where to look for them. We know People crash on the Island right? We know that they have been crashing on the Island for centuries now, long before Jacob had to start bringing them there to help with the new found Nemesis on the Island. Here's where the Egyptians come into play, and the Mayans too if you like.

The Egyptians landed on the island like others had. They were in the presence of a protector, although there was little reason for the protector to get involved unless the castaways started to dig around and happened upon the light. The reason there was little reason for the Protector to get involved is because the Island made it so that no society could develope due to the inability for a mother to carry a baby full term. This inability is what caused the Egyptian castaways to build a statue to their Fertility goddess on the shore. They built other structures as well, and in some of those they carved their glyphs.
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: LostinLock on May 19, 2010, 02:02:17 PM
Sorry no time to read anything else but I am giving this an 8 as we climb the ladder of hey we are moving along.  I knew the island was special

Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: Madam P on May 21, 2010, 08:50:41 AM
IAJ, you did a very good job of presenting your thoughts, (and of restraining yourself from calling everyone idiots if they don't "get it"  ;)) so kudos to you for that!  I guess it's just that not everyone wants the same thing out of the show that you do, because we're all different personalities.  For example, let me try to address a few of mine-- not trying to be difficult, but just to try to get you to see how other people may look at it, (and I know I only speak for myself):

Protecting the Light of Humanity seems to me to be as Noble a cause as one can get....

Well, that sounds nice.  But the "light of humanity" is (forgive me) only what you are calling it.  We really haven't been told by the people who are the storytellers.  We only know that Crazy Mom said "it's in everybody" or something like that.  Well, OK, but even assuming that she actually knows and that she isn't crazy and doesn't lie, does that mean it's "everything good" (you seem to think so) and so if it goes out, everyone will be evil?  Or is it maybe "the spark that makes humans alive instead of just chunks of meat" so if it goes out, everyone will be dead?  Or is it electromagnetic energy, so if it goes out, the world will go into uncontrollable time shifts or implode or something?  These are very different things and present very different scenarios.  OK, so generally, yes, we are apparently supposed to imply that "good" things will go wrong if this light is messed with.  But there is also still the possibility that the light could be the glow from the fires of Hades or something.  The fact that we just don't know for sure is what's frustrating some of us.
 
People aren't very happy about what we were shown, as far as answers, but they aren't really sure what they wanted to see instead...

Well, yeah, I'm sure!   :)  I want to see answers that are a bit more specific -- less nebulous.  If you're the kind of person that can make up your own story and be satisfied that "that's how it IS" then you will be happy with what we're getting.  Personally, I'm more like Conway and am detail-oriented and would rather hear the answers from the story-tellers a little more specifically.  I don't think this means I'm a baby who needs to be spoon-fed -- I think it means I just prefer some confirmation for my speculations in order for them to satisfy me.

I think they have already given us the Egyptian answers. We just have to know where to look for them. We know People crash on the Island right? We know that they have been crashing on the Island for centuries now, long before Jacob had to start bringing them there to help with the new found Nemesis on the Island. Here's where the Egyptians come into play, and the Mayans too if you like.

The Egyptians landed on the island like others had. They were in the presence of a protector, although there was little reason for the protector to get involved unless the castaways started to dig around and happened upon the light. The reason there was little reason for the Protector to get involved is because the Island made it so that no society could develope due to the inability for a mother to carry a baby full term. This inability is what caused the Egyptian castaways to build a statue to their Fertility goddess on the shore. They built other structures as well, and in some of those they carved their glyphs.

Well, again, this all sounds nice.  But it doesn't mean it's right.  And "The Island made it so no society could develop by using The Infertility Curse" -- well, we just flat-out haven't been told anything that remotely resembles that, I don't think.  Is it possible?  Sure.  But quite frankly I would rather know.

I can honestly say that my favorite part of the Lost experience is taking the things we see on the show and figuring them out for myself...

I enjoy that, too.  But I like for the teacher to hand me back my quiz and tell me how I did on it.  I want the creators of the quiz to show me whether or not I got it right.


The detailed analysis of Lost is left up to us, which is why we love the show so much...

Well, (and again, forgive me) it's why YOU love the show so much.  I love the analysis, too, but to me it feels very frustrating if you never know (and I mean know) that your analysis was correct. 

I guess that makes me a (wo)man of Science rather than one of Faith, huh? :-\

Anyway, sorry IAJ if it feels like I'm picking on you -- I don't mean to because I know a lot of folks share your outlook, but you just do such a good job of presenting your side that it's easiest to quote you.   ;)   We're just on different sides of the Myers-Briggs bridge, I think...

If we don't get some more specific wrap-ups on Sunday, it will make me feel like the last page of the book is missing or something, and that will make me feel like the story-tellers shortchanged me.  So they still have one more shot to make it right...   ;)
 
Title: Re: Episode 6x15 Rating
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 21, 2010, 11:01:16 AM
Thanks for the thoughts MP, Just want to touch on some things. When I make assumptions on why "WE" love the show so much I do it with thoughts of others shows that do not captivate the audience like LOST does. Shows that end their series mid season (Heroes). There are shows that give answers to questions every season. Pointing things out for the viewers that may have been wondered about or questioned for only a little while. There are shows that answer questions per season (Dexter) that pull THAT off well, but none of those even come close to rivalling the fervor with which episodes of LOST are poured over ad nauseum. That is the reference I make to why we love the show so much. Being a bit of a writer myself I get frustrated when I hear about people saying they will feel shortchanged if they don't get concrete answers because if we time jumped and went back to the start of the show and started giving out answers all over the place, the show would have been a three season show and viewers would fall off by the end.

All this goes hand in hand with the Theorizing versus Knowing idea of watching the show. We differ in our opinions on that and that is fine. I personally would think it would suck if the last two and a half hours were filled with ALL those questions that have been answered but not hammered home. When I get to the end of a mystic series like this, I don't think they are going to give us fake answers to fundamental questions like the light. Think about it like this if you will.

They tell us that the Light is good and needs protecting (At least twice now)
If that is a lie or a half truth, they have to answer it again as to what it really is.
If they answer what it really is, they also have to answer WHY the lie or half truth was told to us in the first place.

It doesn't make any sense for anyone to create two new questions, along with motivation development, that they are going to try to answer in the final 1 hr 40 mins of screentime left. It is with that in mind that I leave misdirection out of it. The only way I see that this show can fail is if they try to pull this sort of Houdini and try to tie up apparent double misdirections in the Finale.