Sledgeweb's Lost ... Stuff Forum

Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 6 => Episode 6x13 => Topic started by: Numbers Junkie on May 05, 2010, 02:11:43 AM

Title: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: Numbers Junkie on May 05, 2010, 02:11:43 AM
Anyone else notice that Saywer knew to tell Jack to throw MIB in the water, perhaps b/c MIB can't turn into smokey when wet. And that MIB couldn't travel across the water to hydra island as smokey.  Does that mean when Dogen drowned Sayid it was to see if he was MIB? What is the connection between that and Jacob "baptising" Ricardus in Ab Aeterno? Could this be a weakness of MIB? Water?

and just for your listening pleasure in honor of senor smoka:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Zz1gOIxHPE

 ;D 8) :D :o

 
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: Maxor127 on May 05, 2010, 02:34:46 AM
I was hoping something cool would happen when MIB fell in the water.  Instead, he was just a wet old guy.
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: Numbers Junkie on May 05, 2010, 02:54:21 AM
I was hoping something cool would happen when MIB fell in the water.  Instead, he was just a wet old guy.

me too. he just needed a towel.
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: MachThree on May 05, 2010, 03:00:24 AM
Maybe it prevents him from smokifying - hence he had to kill all the people attacking the sub without changing into the smoke monster. 

But it would have been much better had Jack shoved him in and "I'm melting!  Melting!  Oh, what a world!  What a world!"
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: RM on May 05, 2010, 03:04:03 AM
Yeah, maybe he can't turn into smoke when he's wet; but, for whatever reason, he chose not to turn into smoke when he killed the people guarding the plane (even though he killed the people guarding the cages in the form of smoke).

Wish there were some clarity to this stuff, but it's too late for that at this point.
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: jamesl on May 05, 2010, 03:42:18 AM
Dogen drowned Sayid by accident
he fully expected the pool to heal him, but the water was tainted

we've known that water is a weakness for some time now, ever since Ben had to unplug the drain in the secret room to let Smokey out
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: IFP on May 05, 2010, 04:03:41 AM
Hmmm.... soaking wet Locke, and a C4 is about to explode a sub... where have we seen THAT before?
I love the way the LOST story is a mobius strip.

The wheel is turning and you can't slow it down
Can't let go and you can't hold on
Can't go back and you can't stand still
If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will!

Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: opgelost on May 05, 2010, 06:11:23 AM
When Smoky killed the pilot it was raining very hard.
We saw him in smokefrom in the rain a lot of times I think.
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: Xentro on May 05, 2010, 07:38:32 AM
Locke didn't have to turn into smokey, because he knew his plan would work. Or do something else about the fact that Jack pushed him into the water.



Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: grizn0 on May 05, 2010, 09:27:37 AM
I think he fully expected everything that went down to happen. Why else would he grab the watch BEFORE he went into the plane? And why  else would he have switch the contents of Jack's bag with the bomb. Because he knew that was going to happen.
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: CrashandCari on May 05, 2010, 09:45:21 AM
I also expected a bit more from this .. maybe something like seeing Flocke morphing back and forth between Smokey and Flocke

and thanks for the title to this.. now i can't get the stupid song out of my head  :P
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: WhatThe on May 05, 2010, 09:46:10 AM
When Smoky killed the pilot it was raining very hard.
We saw him in smokefrom in the rain a lot of times I think.

He/It probably came up from the tunnels, where it was nice and dry when MiB turned (back) into Smokie...
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: sobrien on May 05, 2010, 10:50:41 AM
I also found this a missed opportunity for ... anything.  I was certainly expecting something more dire than potential "shrinkage" for MIB.

On a side note, MIB can shoot!  He comes out of the water popping Charles's men - one shot: one kill.
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: grizn0 on May 05, 2010, 10:53:38 AM
I also found this a missed opportunity for ... anything.  I was certainly expecting something more dire than potential "shrinkage" for MIB.

On a side note, MIB can shoot!  He comes out of the water popping Charles's men - one shot: one kill.
BOOM! Headshot!
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: BobBX542 on May 05, 2010, 10:58:01 AM
I wasn't really let down by Locke in the water, because I wasn't expecting Locke to do anything special once he was in there. We have seen MiB (in the form of Locke) in the water several times, so I wasn't too shocked. I just found it interesting that Sawyer says, "Just get him in the water, and I'll take care of the rest." And then Jack got Locke in the water, and Sawyer didn't do anything.
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 05, 2010, 11:17:13 AM
I wasn't really let down by Locke in the water, because I wasn't expecting Locke to do anything special once he was in there. We have seen MiB (in the form of Locke) in the water several times, so I wasn't too shocked. I just found it interesting that Sawyer says, "Just get him in the water, and I'll take care of the rest." And then Jack got Locke in the water, and Sawyer didn't do anything.

Exactly what I was thinking Sawyer just kind of...watched.
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: CastawayCayley on May 05, 2010, 11:18:17 AM
I wasn't really let down by Locke in the water, because I wasn't expecting Locke to do anything special once he was in there. We have seen MiB (in the form of Locke) in the water several times, so I wasn't too shocked. I just found it interesting that Sawyer says, "Just get him in the water, and I'll take care of the rest." And then Jack got Locke in the water, and Sawyer didn't do anything.

I know! while he was putzing away in the sub I was yelling at the TV, "hey, shouldn't you be up on the dock taking care of the rest??
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: lostfan777 on May 05, 2010, 12:55:59 PM
When Smoky killed the pilot it was raining very hard.
We saw him in smokefrom in the rain a lot of times I think.

Opie, we've got to stop agreeing like this, people will talk!   ;)

I wasn't really let down by Locke in the water, because I wasn't expecting Locke to do anything special once he was in there. We have seen MiB (in the form of Locke) in the water several times, so I wasn't too shocked. I just found it interesting that Sawyer says, "Just get him in the water, and I'll take care of the rest." And then Jack got Locke in the water, and Sawyer didn't do anything.

Exactly what I was thinking Sawyer just kind of...watched.

I saw it that Sawyer's part was to take over the sub and be ready to kick off as soon as Jack got MIB in the water.  I don't think being 'wet' is what keeps him from becoming Smokie (see Opie's comment above), I think he just needs to be on solid (island) ground.  It's been suggested that he is somehow 'tethered' to the island, so being in the water keeps him from changing somehow.
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 05, 2010, 12:59:16 PM
When Smoky killed the pilot it was raining very hard.
We saw him in smokefrom in the rain a lot of times I think.

Opie, we've got to stop agreeing like this, people will talk!   ;)

I wasn't really let down by Locke in the water, because I wasn't expecting Locke to do anything special once he was in there. We have seen MiB (in the form of Locke) in the water several times, so I wasn't too shocked. I just found it interesting that Sawyer says, "Just get him in the water, and I'll take care of the rest." And then Jack got Locke in the water, and Sawyer didn't do anything.

Exactly what I was thinking Sawyer just kind of...watched.

I saw it that Sawyer's part was to take over the sub and be ready to kick off as soon as Jack got MIB in the water.  I don't think being 'wet' is what keeps him from becoming Smokie (see Opie's comment above), I think he just needs to be on solid (island) ground.  It's been suggested that he is somehow 'tethered' to the island, so being in the water keeps him from changing somehow.

Yeah that could have een the "Rest" Sawyer was talking about. Kind of lopsided tasks.

SAWYER : I'll take care of the two slacking old dudes in the sub, you take care of the beast they call The Desolate One and knock him into the water. Do it quick though because he may turn into a pillar of black smoke and slam you into some solid mass until you are dead. He Might be a good guy though. We don't know yet.

JACK : Whatever you say.
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: lovinlost on May 05, 2010, 01:10:21 PM
When Smoky killed the pilot it was raining very hard.
We saw him in smokefrom in the rain a lot of times I think.

Opie, we've got to stop agreeing like this, people will talk!   ;)

I wasn't really let down by Locke in the water, because I wasn't expecting Locke to do anything special once he was in there. We have seen MiB (in the form of Locke) in the water several times, so I wasn't too shocked. I just found it interesting that Sawyer says, "Just get him in the water, and I'll take care of the rest." And then Jack got Locke in the water, and Sawyer didn't do anything.

Exactly what I was thinking Sawyer just kind of...watched.

I saw it that Sawyer's part was to take over the sub and be ready to kick off as soon as Jack got MIB in the water.  I don't think being 'wet' is what keeps him from becoming Smokie (see Opie's comment above), I think he just needs to be on solid (island) ground.  It's been suggested that he is somehow 'tethered' to the island, so being in the water keeps him from changing somehow.

Yeah that could have een the "Rest" Sawyer was talking about. Kind of lopsided tasks.

SAWYER : I'll take care of the two slacking old dudes in the sub, you take care of the beast they call The Desolate One and knock him into the water. Do it quick though because he may turn into a pillar of black smoke and slam you into some solid mass until you are dead. He Might be a good guy though. We don't know yet.

JACK : Whatever you say.

Could it be possible that Sawyer was in on Smokie's plan?  I know this makes absolutely NO sense, but...he WAS the one who pulled the wires that made the bomb go off.  He also told Jack to get Smokie in the water and he'd take care of everything else, then was not there to do so.

Ideas?  Or am I way off base?
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 05, 2010, 01:18:43 PM
I don' think Sawyer would have resigned all of his friends to death. Espescially if it meant he may die too. There was no guarantee Sawyer would have lived through the blast.
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: tonysee200x on May 05, 2010, 02:14:20 PM
Remember when Locke blew up the other sub? The one Jack and Juliet were going to use to go home (season 3 I think).

After Locke blew up that sub he was on the doc wet and we never understood why. In fact I looked on lostpedia and here is one of the unanswered questions form the episode.

--Why was Locke wet after returning from placing the C-4 aboard the submarine?

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Sub

Now I have not idea how this relates to what happened with this sub -- but it has to relate somehow? No?
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: sobrien on May 05, 2010, 02:17:33 PM
When Smoky killed the pilot it was raining very hard.
We saw him in smokefrom in the rain a lot of times I think.

Opie, we've got to stop agreeing like this, people will talk!   ;)

I wasn't really let down by Locke in the water, because I wasn't expecting Locke to do anything special once he was in there. We have seen MiB (in the form of Locke) in the water several times, so I wasn't too shocked. I just found it interesting that Sawyer says, "Just get him in the water, and I'll take care of the rest." And then Jack got Locke in the water, and Sawyer didn't do anything.

Exactly what I was thinking Sawyer just kind of...watched.

I saw it that Sawyer's part was to take over the sub and be ready to kick off as soon as Jack got MIB in the water.  I don't think being 'wet' is what keeps him from becoming Smokie (see Opie's comment above), I think he just needs to be on solid (island) ground.  It's been suggested that he is somehow 'tethered' to the island, so being in the water keeps him from changing somehow.

Yeah that could have een the "Rest" Sawyer was talking about. Kind of lopsided tasks.

SAWYER : I'll take care of the two slacking old dudes in the sub, you take care of the beast they call The Desolate One and knock him into the water. Do it quick though because he may turn into a pillar of black smoke and slam you into some solid mass until you are dead. He Might be a good guy though. We don't know yet.

JACK : Whatever you say.

Could it be possible that Sawyer was in on Smokie's plan?  I know this makes absolutely NO sense, but...he WAS the one who pulled the wires that made the bomb go off.  He also told Jack to get Smokie in the water and he'd take care of everything else, then was not there to do so.

Ideas?  Or am I way off base?

I don't think Sawyer is in it with MIB, I just believe he is inept.  All this would point to Jack being the better candidate.  He sees the game, knows the rules and is willing so sacrifice (stay on the island) where Sawyer is lacking in all those traits.
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: BobBX542 on May 05, 2010, 04:12:34 PM
Remember when Locke blew up the other sub? The one Jack and Juliet were going to use to go home (season 3 I think).

After Locke blew up that sub he was on the doc wet and we never understood why. In fact I looked on lostpedia and here is one of the unanswered questions form the episode.

--Why was Locke wet after returning from placing the C-4 aboard the submarine?

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Sub

Now I have not idea how this relates to what happened with this sub -- but it has to relate somehow? No?

I don't see why this is a mystery. When you rewatch that scene, you can see that the sub has drifted away from the dock, and Locke had to swim back to shore.
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: NoraCharles on May 05, 2010, 06:28:01 PM
I don't think being 'wet' is what keeps him from becoming Smokie (see Opie's comment above), I think he just needs to be on solid (island) ground.  It's been suggested that he is somehow 'tethered' to the island, so being in the water keeps him from changing somehow.

That makes sense to me.
Cus really, with all his powers, shouldn't the MIB just be able to turn into Smokey and just zoom off over the ocean to escape the island?

There has to be something about the ocean water or the tether mentioned above that prevents that.
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: MachThree on May 05, 2010, 06:49:38 PM
I just think Sawyer was in the sub when Jack shoved Smoke into the water and so didn't know Smokey was wet.  I think Sawyer knew Smokey couldn't go into the water since, well, I mean, couldn't a guy that powerful just swim to Hydra island?  Why would he need a boat?
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: Numbers Junkie on May 05, 2010, 08:56:04 PM
I also expected a bit more from this .. maybe something like seeing Flocke morphing back and forth between Smokey and Flocke

and thanks for the title to this.. now i can't get the stupid song out of my head  :P

no worries, me too...
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: RM on May 06, 2010, 03:17:37 PM
Maybe MIB can't be Smokey when he's under water.

Ben had to unplug the drain underneath his house in order to "release" him.

This season, Ben suggested they head to the beach as some sort of protection against him.

We've seen him be Smokey in the rain (when scanning Juliet and Kate in the jungle; and when killing the pilot as Smokezilla), but he was technically still over land.

Mabye that's why the entire Island's being under water will turn out to be some kind of ultimate defeat of MIB because he can never become Smokey again?
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: grizn0 on May 06, 2010, 03:51:54 PM
Maybe MIB can't be Smokey when he's under water.

Ben had to unplug the drain underneath his house in order to "release" him.

This season, Ben suggested they head to the beach as some sort of protection against him.

We've seen him be Smokey in the rain (when scanning Juliet and Kate in the jungle; and when killing the pilot as Smokezilla), but he was technically still over land.

Mabye that's why the entire Island's being under water will turn out to be some kind of ultimate defeat of MIB because he can never become Smokey again?

Yes! A thousand times yes!
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: cookieshoes on May 06, 2010, 04:25:52 PM
Maybe MIB can't be Smokey when he's under water.

Ben had to unplug the drain underneath his house in order to "release" him.


This is one of those questions in the series which I'm beginning to doubt that the producers will end up explaining.

Why on earth would Ben have EVER wanted to release the MIB/Smokey?  Even when it was to save himself and defeat Widmore's people. It still makes no sense whatsoever.
Because, if the Others/Dharma had the ability to control or summon the MIB by using that drain, then doesn't that mean that they had been deliberately releasing him every time he showed up in the first few seasons and started killing people? 

Which makes it further strange that the Dharma camp would've needed the Pylons in the first place, if they already had MIB/Smokey contained under water using that drain. 
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: lostfan777 on May 06, 2010, 04:26:26 PM
Maybe MIB can't be Smokey when he's under water.

Mabye that's why the entire Island's being under water will turn out to be some kind of ultimate defeat of MIB because he can never become Smokey again?


Well, he said he can't CROSS water, so I think he needs the solid ground of the island beneath him, but I like your idea that he would be in DEEP TROUBLE (heh, heh) if the whole island was under water.  That would kill the whole theory of 'MIB is good, he defeats Jacob, destroys the island, and treats everyone to a good life'.  I like the idea that they somehow sink the island as the only way to truly defeat the MIB.  It works perfectly in my mind and would definitely represent a huge 'sacrifice' for those still alive at that time, especially Desmond, who will probably be the only one with the power to do it.
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: lostfan777 on May 06, 2010, 04:31:12 PM
Maybe MIB can't be Smokey when he's under water.

Ben had to unplug the drain underneath his house in order to "release" him.


This is one of those questions in the series which I'm beginning to doubt that the producers will end up explaining.

Why on earth would Ben have EVER wanted to release the MIB/Smokey?  Even when it was to save himself and defeat Widmore's people. It still makes no sense whatsoever.
Because, if the Others/Dharma had the ability to control or summon the MIB by using that drain, then doesn't that mean that they had been deliberately releasing him every time he showed up in the first few seasons and started killing people? 

Which makes it further strange that the Dharma camp would've needed the Pylons in the first place, if they already had MIB/Smokey contained under water using that drain. 

Actually, RM's post has me thinking that this story arc is going to be a major part of the finale and defeat of MIB.  And Ben summoning Smokie makes sense also.  They had the pylons to keep him out, but one of the vents leads straight into the village.  They plugged the vent and submerged it to keep him from entering that way (he can't move through water).  When Keamy's people had them trapped and after losing Alex, Ben drained the water and 'released the hounds' so to speak.  Makes sense to me.
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: cookieshoes on May 06, 2010, 05:35:59 PM
Ah, yes, that does make sense. Thanks!
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: MachThree on May 06, 2010, 06:40:17 PM
RM:  YES!  I think you are absolutely on to something. 

I say Kate sinks the island and MiB's dying words are:

"You cursed brat! Look what you've done! I'm melting! melting! Oh, what a world! What a world! Who would have thought a good little girl like you could destroy my beautiful wickedness? Oooooh, look out! I'm going! Oooooh! Ooooooh! "
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: lostfan777 on May 07, 2010, 09:44:13 AM
RM:  YES!  I think you are absolutely on to something. 

I say Kate sinks the island and MiB's dying words are:

"You cursed brat! Look what you've done! I'm melting! melting! Oh, what a world! What a world! Who would have thought a good little girl like you could destroy my beautiful wickedness? Oooooh, look out! I'm going! Oooooh! Ooooooh! "

LOL!  :D  And then with the sub gone and no jet pilot, they'll have to go back and get the real Henry Gale's hot air balloon to escape the rainbow, er....island!   :D ;D

And that reminds me....I know it's too late in the game now for more backstories, but I'd love to know where that guy came from in the first place!  His balloon had the Widmore name on it but they never confirmed that Charles sent him.
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: BobBX542 on May 07, 2010, 10:23:20 AM
RM:  YES!  I think you are absolutely on to something. 

I say Kate sinks the island and MiB's dying words are:

"You cursed brat! Look what you've done! I'm melting! melting! Oh, what a world! What a world! Who would have thought a good little girl like you could destroy my beautiful wickedness? Oooooh, look out! I'm going! Oooooh! Ooooooh! "

LOL!  :D  And then with the sub gone and no jet pilot, they'll have to go back and get the real Henry Gale's hot air balloon to escape the rainbow, er....island!   :D ;D

And that reminds me....I know it's too late in the game now for more backstories, but I'd love to know where that guy came from in the first place!  His balloon had the Widmore name on it but they never confirmed that Charles sent him.

They might cover it a little bit, you never know. Might have something to do with the whole deal between Jacob and MiB. I only sound hopeful because I want to know too.
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 07, 2010, 10:25:38 AM
RM:  YES!  I think you are absolutely on to something. 

I say Kate sinks the island and MiB's dying words are:

"You cursed brat! Look what you've done! I'm melting! melting! Oh, what a world! What a world! Who would have thought a good little girl like you could destroy my beautiful wickedness? Oooooh, look out! I'm going! Oooooh! Ooooooh! "

LOL!  :D  And then with the sub gone and no jet pilot, they'll have to go back and get the real Henry Gale's hot air balloon to escape the rainbow, er....island!   :D ;D

And that reminds me....I know it's too late in the game now for more backstories, but I'd love to know where that guy came from in the first place!  His balloon had the Widmore name on it but they never confirmed that Charles sent him.

They might cover it a little bit, you never know. Might have something to do with the whole deal between Jacob and MiB. I only sound hopeful because I want to know too.

Yeah AND the balloon was sponsored by Nozz-A-La Cola. I want to know about THAT!
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: Madam P on May 07, 2010, 04:38:01 PM
Remember when Locke blew up the other sub? The one Jack and Juliet were going to use to go home (season 3 I think).


Still another of the "it-happened-once-so-it's-going-to-happen-again" thingys.  Lots of quotes repeated that we've heard before. 

The Oceanic airplane (well, the front half anyway...) blew up when somebody was sucked into the jet engine.  Any chance that this Ajira plane will be revving up and somebody will get sucked into its engine?

What are some other "big" events that might happen again? 
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: Numbers Junkie on May 08, 2010, 10:56:22 PM
RM:  YES!  I think you are absolutely on to something. 

I say Kate sinks the island and MiB's dying words are:

"You cursed brat! Look what you've done! I'm melting! melting! Oh, what a world! What a world! Who would have thought a good little girl like you could destroy my beautiful wickedness? Oooooh, look out! I'm going! Oooooh! Ooooooh! "

LOL!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7GJcKuVGm8&feature=related

Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: Numbers Junkie on May 08, 2010, 11:00:25 PM
On Land, Under Water..there is certainly something to it.

I also think that this will play into the endgame somehow,
just seemed significant when watching the episode.
Title: Re: Smoke on the Water...
Post by: LouE68 on May 09, 2010, 12:51:55 AM
Smoke on the weirdo.....