Sledgeweb's Lost ... Stuff Forum

Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 6 => Episode 6x06 => Topic started by: spencer on March 10, 2010, 05:53:09 PM

Title: Widmore & the Black Rock Journal
Post by: spencer on March 10, 2010, 05:53:09 PM
Widmore bought the Black Rock Journal at an auction.
Is that how he found the island?
Title: Re: Widmore & the Black Rock Journal
Post by: Des on March 10, 2010, 05:55:13 PM
Or, Hawkings helped him find it. She was able to locate the island and put the Oceanic 6 (or, Oceanic 5, plus Ben) on the right plane. And we last saw her and Widmore outside the hospital talking about their son (Daniel). Maybe, maybe?
Title: Re: Widmore & the Black Rock Journal
Post by: razzle-dazzle on March 10, 2010, 06:07:30 PM
Or, Hawkings helped him find it. She was able to locate the island and put the Oceanic 6 (or, Oceanic 5, plus Ben) on the right plane. And we last saw her and Widmore outside the hospital talking about their son (Daniel). Maybe, maybe?
I think since he knew that the O6 made it back to the Island that he could do the same thing, use the Lampost to find it.
I think he knew he had to see Locke come back before he could go back to the Island.
Title: Re: Widmore & the Black Rock Journal
Post by: spencer on March 10, 2010, 06:10:47 PM
I don't know.
Widmore's goal (I think) is to retake the island at the expense of everyone on it.
Mama Faraday wants to save the island.  She was reluctantly working with Ben to get the O6 back.
Charles did want Locke to go back, maybe another reason for helping MIB.
Charles may have gotten his deal with him.
Title: Re: Widmore & the Black Rock Journal
Post by: WhatThe on March 10, 2010, 06:18:28 PM
Widmore bought the Black Rock Journal at an auction.
Is that how he found the island?

I'm trying to figure out how the journal would have helped him find the island again, especially after it's been moved.

I'm also trying to figure out how the journal got off the island to begin with lol.
Title: Re: Widmore & the Black Rock Journal
Post by: Lurker on March 10, 2010, 06:26:55 PM
My theory is that the journal contained a message from Jacob on how to find the island and when to start looking for it.  On a slightly different note, we saw the auction from one of Desmond's flashback-nose bleeding session.  Can we make the assumption that those were actual events? Just thought of this, maybe Desmond and those experiencing the nose bleeding-blackouts were actually seeing their alter universe life and not a memory of the universe they were in.  Just my two cents.
Title: Re: Widmore & the Black Rock Journal
Post by: Maxor127 on March 10, 2010, 06:49:09 PM
It always seemed like Hawking and Widmore had some sort of knowledge of what would happen in the future.  For example, Widmore's men were waiting for Locke in Africa.  And Hawking has made numerous references to the future.  And when Desmond was shot, she said something like that for the first time she didn't know what was going to happen.

I don't know if it's from Daniel's journal and that it spelled all of these events out, or if they're doing time traveling of their own, or if there's some other reason.
Title: Re: Widmore & the Black Rock Journal
Post by: MachThree on March 10, 2010, 08:10:52 PM
I think we're forgetting that this is the second time Widmore found the island.  Otherwise, how did the freighter know where to go?  Not that we know what he did to enable the freighter to reach the island, but whatever he did, I'm sure he could do it again to get his sub back there as well. 
Title: Re: Widmore & the Black Rock Journal
Post by: PrincessLeia on March 10, 2010, 08:25:35 PM
It always seemed like Hawking and Widmore had some sort of knowledge of what would happen in the future.  For example, Widmore's men were waiting for Locke in Africa.  And Hawking has made numerous references to the future.  And when Desmond was shot, she said something like that for the first time she didn't know what was going to happen.

I don't know if it's from Daniel's journal and that it spelled all of these events out, or if they're doing time traveling of their own, or if there's some other reason.
I don't disagree that they know more than most re: the Island's whereabouts, but I don't think that Widmore's men were really waiting for Locke specifically.  I think Widmore had constant surveillance on that site.

I think we're forgetting that this is the second time Widmore found the island.  Otherwise, how did the freighter know where to go?  Not that we know what he did to enable the freighter to reach the island, but whatever he did, I'm sure he could do it again to get his sub back there as well. 
Good point, but the Island had moved since the freighter was there.  Who knows how far. ???  Either way, I think the Lampost had something to do with Widmore's return.
Title: Re: Widmore & the Black Rock Journal
Post by: LostinLock on March 10, 2010, 10:17:48 PM
It always seemed like Hawking and Widmore had some sort of knowledge of what would happen in the future.  For example, Widmore's men were waiting for Locke in Africa.  And Hawking has made numerous references to the future.  And when Desmond was shot, she said something like that for the first time she didn't know what was going to happen.

I don't know if it's from Daniel's journal and that it spelled all of these events out, or if they're doing time traveling of their own, or if there's some other reason.
I have believed this right along.  She said that she knew everything up to that time. And they both sacrificed their children.
We are not done with them.

The Black Rock Journal was Hanso correct?  Hmmm connection to Jacob hummmm
Title: Re: Widmore & the Black Rock Journal
Post by: Optimus J on March 11, 2010, 05:20:20 AM
Widmore bought the Black Rock Journal at an auction.
Is that how he found the island?
Nope, he did it as a try to find, but since that happened in 1996 and he got to the island 11 years later, I'm pretty sure that the journal didn't helped that much.
Title: Re: Widmore & the Black Rock Journal
Post by: jamesl on March 11, 2010, 08:58:59 AM
maybe he's just a slow reader
Title: Re: Widmore & the Black Rock Journal
Post by: bfth on March 11, 2010, 10:21:59 AM
maybe he's just a slow reader

LOL
Title: Re: Widmore & the Black Rock Journal
Post by: BobBX542 on March 11, 2010, 12:48:30 PM
It makes sense that Miss Hawking had something to do with Widmore finding the island, or at the very least Widmore used the Lamp Post station. My line of thinking into how the Lamp Post works is sort of a combination of Science and "Magic". Like, somehow the station can detect when the island is about to move (magic) and it is transferred somehow to the devices in the station (science) that allow the people there to go and find the island. Soooooooooooo, anyway...

I always thought that the Lamp Post could detect that Locke was about to turn the FDW, and that is how it was able to predict the location of the event window that allowed access to the island. Now Locke turning the FDW sent the island through time to 1974, and that was the event window. With the S5 Finale, Juliette blowing up the bomb sent the island through time to 2007 and that opened another event window. Yet again, somehow the Lamp Post was able to detect that the island was about to shift through time, and predicted the event window, so either Miss Hawking was there and told Widmore, or Widmore was there and just used the info to his own advantage.

Am I stating the blatantly obvious here??
Title: Re: Widmore & the Black Rock Journal
Post by: LostinLock on March 11, 2010, 05:35:00 PM
It makes sense that Miss Hawking had something to do with Widmore finding the island, or at the very least Widmore used the Lamp Post station. My line of thinking into how the Lamp Post works is sort of a combination of Science and "Magic". Like, somehow the station can detect when the island is about to move (magic) and it is transferred somehow to the devices in the station (science) that allow the people there to go and find the island. Soooooooooooo, anyway...

I always thought that the Lamp Post could detect that Locke was about to turn the FDW, and that is how it was able to predict the location of the event window that allowed access to the island. Now Locke turning the FDW sent the island through time to 1974, and that was the event window. With the S5 Finale, Juliette blowing up the bomb sent the island through time to 2007 and that opened another event window. Yet again, somehow the Lamp Post was able to detect that the island was about to shift through time, and predicted the event window, so either Miss Hawking was there and told Widmore, or Widmore was there and just used the info to his own advantage.

Am I stating the blatantly obvious here??

Well, Widmore told Locke to find Mrs. Hawkings in LA.  So yes she would have had a connection.  He met up with her at the hospital and when she was giving her speach about the lampost, she could have been talking about Widmore, creating that I believe first Dharma station.  I mean it would fit he knew that island when he was there and he was always going to find it.
Title: Re: Widmore & the Black Rock Journal
Post by: PrincessLeia on March 15, 2010, 07:44:49 PM
It makes sense that Miss Hawking had something to do with Widmore finding the island, or at the very least Widmore used the Lamp Post station. My line of thinking into how the Lamp Post works is sort of a combination of Science and "Magic". Like, somehow the station can detect when the island is about to move (magic) and it is transferred somehow to the devices in the station (science) that allow the people there to go and find the island. Soooooooooooo, anyway...

I always thought that the Lamp Post could detect that Locke was about to turn the FDW, and that is how it was able to predict the location of the event window that allowed access to the island. Now Locke turning the FDW sent the island through time to 1974, and that was the event window. With the S5 Finale, Juliette blowing up the bomb sent the island through time to 2007 and that opened another event window. Yet again, somehow the Lamp Post was able to detect that the island was about to shift through time, and predicted the event window, so either Miss Hawking was there and told Widmore, or Widmore was there and just used the info to his own advantage.

Am I stating the blatantly obvious here??
I'm not sure that the Lamp Post could predict these events so much as it could track them as Penny's arctic listening station did.  The Island's movements have a fair amount of predictability with or without nuclear bombs & frozen donkey wheels.
Title: Re: Widmore & the Black Rock Journal
Post by: BobBX542 on March 15, 2010, 07:52:54 PM
It makes sense that Miss Hawking had something to do with Widmore finding the island, or at the very least Widmore used the Lamp Post station. My line of thinking into how the Lamp Post works is sort of a combination of Science and "Magic". Like, somehow the station can detect when the island is about to move (magic) and it is transferred somehow to the devices in the station (science) that allow the people there to go and find the island. Soooooooooooo, anyway...

I always thought that the Lamp Post could detect that Locke was about to turn the FDW, and that is how it was able to predict the location of the event window that allowed access to the island. Now Locke turning the FDW sent the island through time to 1974, and that was the event window. With the S5 Finale, Juliette blowing up the bomb sent the island through time to 2007 and that opened another event window. Yet again, somehow the Lamp Post was able to detect that the island was about to shift through time, and predicted the event window, so either Miss Hawking was there and told Widmore, or Widmore was there and just used the info to his own advantage.

Am I stating the blatantly obvious here??
I'm not sure that the Lamp Post could predict these events so much as it could track them as Penny's arctic listening station did.  The Island's movements have a fair amount of predictability with or without nuclear bombs & frozen donkey wheels.

Two things about what you're saying though PL, and you know how much I hate to disagree with you. First, we have already been told that the Lamp Post predicts where the island will be in time. This is how we know about the windows that allow access to the island. Second, if the station was tracking the island, then they would always be one step behind. I know the things I said are kind of ridiculous, but I didn't know how else to say them.
Title: Re: Widmore & the Black Rock Journal
Post by: PrincessLeia on March 15, 2010, 08:13:30 PM
& I would agree with you if I thought that the Island only moved as a result of donkey wheels & nuclear blasts! lol Whoever built the Lamp Post (which was...???) was able to predict time/location windows based on PAST movement. 

What else causes the Island to move?  Jacob? ???
Title: Re: Widmore & the Black Rock Journal
Post by: PrincessLeia on March 15, 2010, 08:15:37 PM
It makes sense that Miss Hawking had something to do with Widmore finding the island, or at the very least Widmore used the Lamp Post station. My line of thinking into how the Lamp Post works is sort of a combination of Science and "Magic". Like, somehow the station can detect when the island is about to move (magic) and it is transferred somehow to the devices in the station (science) that allow the people there to go and find the island. Soooooooooooo, anyway...

I always thought that the Lamp Post could detect that Locke was about to turn the FDW, and that is how it was able to predict the location of the event window that allowed access to the island. Now Locke turning the FDW sent the island through time to 1974, and that was the event window. With the S5 Finale, Juliette blowing up the bomb sent the island through time to 2007 and that opened another event window. Yet again, somehow the Lamp Post was able to detect that the island was about to shift through time, and predicted the event window, so either Miss Hawking was there and told Widmore, or Widmore was there and just used the info to his own advantage.

Am I stating the blatantly obvious here??
I'm not sure that the Lamp Post could predict these events so much as it could track them as Penny's arctic listening station did.  The Island's movements have a fair amount of predictability with or without nuclear bombs & frozen donkey wheels.

Two things about what you're saying though PL, and you know how much I hate to disagree with you. First, we have already been told that the Lamp Post predicts where the island will be in time. This is how we know about the windows that allow access to the island. Second, if the station was tracking the island, then they would always be one step behind. I know the things I said are kind of ridiculous, but I didn't know how else to say them.
By the way....I feel about 10 seconds away from a nosebleed, & a huge "OOOOOooHHHHhhhhh YEAH!"  I feel like I'm so close to understanding/agreeing with you, but I just can't wrap my mind around it right now! LOL
Title: Re: Widmore & the Black Rock Journal
Post by: E.S.B. on March 15, 2010, 08:29:17 PM
Thanks PL, you saved me from having to read the thread, lol.
Title: Re: Widmore & the Black Rock Journal
Post by: MachThree on March 16, 2010, 01:26:39 PM
IIRC, the Lamp Post is built on a pocket of the same type of energy found on the Island - that's why somehow it can be used to find the island.

But what never got explained, as far as I can tell, is this - maybe Widmore knew the blue portal was at the frozen donkey wheel, but how did he ever figure out that the orange portal was in Tunisia?  (Yes, I have been playing the video game Portal lately).  Widmore himself left the island by boat, yet he seemed to know that people might suddenly appear in the middle of the desert in Tunesia - though I note it appears that he only had cameras there for Locke's arrival, not for Ben's earlier arrival, so did he figure this out in the interim?
Title: Re: Widmore & the Black Rock Journal
Post by: PrincessLeia on March 16, 2010, 04:13:31 PM
The Vile Vortices theory explains & identifies about 20 locations with similar characteristics, so it seems that the LOSTiverse also has specific locations with the Casimir effect or special characteristics of some sort (Ayers Rock @ Uluru, the Lamp Post in LA, the Tunisian desert).

I think Widmore did see Ben arrive (& Ben knew he was being watched), which is why he hijacked the horse & got out of there as quickly as possible.  Locke's immobility kept him there until Widmore's men arrived.






(Wow....now that I posted that, I'm trying to remember Charles & Ben's midnight convo in London.  Did Widmore know that Ben was off the Island? ???  Off to the transcripts I go...)

Oh.  &...the cake is a lie. ;)
Title: Re: Widmore & the Black Rock Journal
Post by: PrincessLeia on March 16, 2010, 04:19:53 PM
(Sorry for all the DP's in here! lol)

Widmore said to Ben in The Shape of Things to Come, "I wondered when you were gonna show up," so I think he did know.
Title: Re: Widmore & the Black Rock Journal
Post by: IFP on March 16, 2010, 05:40:42 PM
First, we have already been told that the Lamp Post predicts where the island will be in time.

I hear folks say this alot, and I'm always compelled to point out that Hawking said that, since the island is always moving, the Lamp Post allows them to predict where the island will be at a particular point in time. That's not the same as preditcing where in time it will be. It predicts where the island will be in space, at a chosen time. I'm not saying that the island's moving ability is not related to some sort of time distortion, but I don't believe that the Lamp Post will tell me "The island will be in 1974 in five minutes..." but rather "Through next Tuesday, the island will be in the South Pacific at piont x."
Title: Re: Widmore & the Black Rock Journal
Post by: trodge on March 16, 2010, 09:09:43 PM
Mrs Hawking seems to get a lot of info from Daniel's journal.  What else is in that journal? 

How does she know the Island isn't done with Desmond?  Does the journal tell her this?  Or is this something she just knows?

I also have to assume that they were able to build the lamppost from Daniels journal.
Title: Re: Widmore & the Black Rock Journal
Post by: BobBX542 on March 17, 2010, 11:16:01 AM
First, we have already been told that the Lamp Post predicts where the island will be in time.

I hear folks say this alot, and I'm always compelled to point out that Hawking said that, since the island is always moving, the Lamp Post allows them to predict where the island will be at a particular point in time. That's not the same as preditcing where in time it will be. It predicts where the island will be in space, at a chosen time. I'm not saying that the island's moving ability is not related to some sort of time distortion, but I don't believe that the Lamp Post will tell me "The island will be in 1974 in five minutes..." but rather "Through next Tuesday, the island will be in the South Pacific at piont x."

I don't see the difference, can you clear it up at all??