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Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 6 => Episode 6x06 => Topic started by: Numbers Junkie on March 10, 2010, 02:12:50 AM

Title: Damn, Richard!
Post by: Numbers Junkie on March 10, 2010, 02:12:50 AM
Richard was off his rocker tonight!
It was so good to see...

Perhaps he was just pissed off at Jacob when he said to Jack not to believe a word he says, Ricardo didn't actually mean it. His arrival at the Black Rock was so dramatic. His speech aboard sitting in the shadows was so dark and creepy. We always knew he was a complex character, but this takes it to a whole new level.

Perhaps he knew when Jack played Russian roulette with the dynamite and won, that Jack could be a candidate?
It certainly changed his attitude real quick.

Richard is always in the know, why should it ever change?
He knows Jacob is up to something and it's big!

Kudos Nestor kudos...
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: Astriastar on March 10, 2010, 02:21:57 AM

Perhaps he was just pissed off at Jacob when he said to Jack not to believe a word he says, Ricardo didn't actually mean it.

Agreed.  I think he was just being petulant. 

I am extremely irritated with Jack and Hurley, though, for not pressing Richard harder for info before letting him go ahead and try to kill himself.  They were just fine and dandy with letting him take all that he knows with him to the afterlife.
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: Chuckie on March 10, 2010, 02:40:13 AM

Perhaps he was just pissed off at Jacob when he said to Jack not to believe a word he says, Ricardo didn't actually mean it.

Agreed.  I think he was just being petulant. 

I am extremely irritated with Jack and Hurley, though, for not pressing Richard harder for info before letting him go ahead and try to kill himself.  They were just fine and dandy with letting him take all that he knows with him to the afterlife.

I'm pretty sure Jack knew what was going on beforehand. Jack knew he wasn't going to let Richard kill himself. So he wasn't worried a bit. Hurley on the other hand...he was miles away.
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: trodge on March 10, 2010, 07:47:52 AM
Did Jacob touch Michael and give him a gift?
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: WhatThe on March 10, 2010, 08:11:02 AM

Perhaps he was just pissed off at Jacob when he said to Jack not to believe a word he says, Ricardo didn't actually mean it.

Agreed.  I think he was just being petulant. 

I am extremely irritated with Jack and Hurley, though, for not pressing Richard harder for info before letting him go ahead and try to kill himself.  They were just fine and dandy with letting him take all that he knows with him to the afterlife.
It was made pretty obvious I think that it was part of Jack's plan all along once Richard asked him to kill him with the dynamite. I don't think Jack ever thought Richard would end up dead so he wasn't thinking Richard would take "all that he knows with him" because Richard wasn't goin' nowhere lol. I actually loved that part with Jack, he impressed me with both his faith and his control of the situation.
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: bfth on March 10, 2010, 09:16:26 AM
Made me even hungrier for the upcoming Richard-centril episode!
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: vickilynn on March 10, 2010, 11:18:27 AM
Does this mean Richard is definitely from the Black Rock? He said he hadn't been back to see the ship his whole time on the island, and he looked at the chains which makes us think of MIB telling him something about last seeing him in chains. The thing is, I thought Richard was from further back in time. He does tell Jack that he has been "alive" longer than he could ever imagine.
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: jamesl on March 10, 2010, 11:23:57 AM
he could be from ancient greece or ancient rome and still have been a prisoner on the black rock,
maybe put there by MIB himself
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: lostfan777 on March 10, 2010, 11:38:45 AM
I was thinking that too.  I always thought he looked 'Egyptian' with the (they say it's natural!) guyliner, so I've been hoping for an ancient Egypt tie-in to go with the hatch symbols and all the writings and stuff.  When people started to theorize that he was from the Black Rock I thought that would be a disappointment, not far back enough to be overly impressive.  So the only way we can all be right is if he is from way way back (ancient Egypt) but got caught up as a slave on the Black Rock for awhile.  I wonder if they travelled off the island all the way back that far.  The only thing that tells me this is wrong is that in the first beach scene with Jacob and MIB, with the Black Rock offshore, it seemed like we were meant to feel as if they had been alone on the island for awhile.  Jacob was drawing 'new' people to the island, as MIB said, to try to 'prove him wrong' again and that it 'always ends the same'.  I guess there could have been followers there with him already, but it just didn't seem that way to me.
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: BobBX542 on March 10, 2010, 11:56:31 AM
Does this mean Richard is definitely from the Black Rock? He said he hadn't been back to see the ship his whole time on the island, and he looked at the chains which makes us think of MIB telling him something about last seeing him in chains. The thing is, I thought Richard was from further back in time. He does tell Jack that he has been "alive" longer than he could ever imagine.

he could be from ancient greece or ancient rome and still have been a prisoner on the black rock,
maybe put there by MIB himself

I was thinking that too.  I always thought he looked 'Egyptian' with the (they say it's natural!) guyliner, so I've been hoping for an ancient Egypt tie-in to go with the hatch symbols and all the writings and stuff.  When people started to theorize that he was from the Black Rock I thought that would be a disappointment, not far back enough to be overly impressive.  So the only way we can all be right is if he is from way way back (ancient Egypt) but got caught up as a slave on the Black Rock for awhile.  I wonder if they travelled off the island all the way back that far.  The only thing that tells me this is wrong is that in the first beach scene with Jacob and MIB, with the Black Rock offshore, it seemed like we were meant to feel as if they had been alone on the island for awhile.  Jacob was drawing 'new' people to the island, as MIB said, to try to 'prove him wrong' again and that it 'always ends the same'.  I guess there could have been followers there with him already, but it just didn't seem that way to me.

Guys, this is just one more of those things that I have been talking about that you can't look too deeply into with this season. They aren't making it too difficult for us here. When Locke said to Richard that he was "glad to see him out of those chains", they weren't talking metaphorically. BUT, for the people that were still on the fence, they show us this episode with Richard, standing in the Black Rock, looking at the manicles/shackles/CHAINS, and he says that he came her on the ship, and hasn't been back since. I really don't think TPTB can make it any more clear.

BUT, obviously there is a really good chance I'm wrong. We will all find out in 2 weeks when we get the Richard episode. I really would like to give you, and everyone else, a little piece of advice though. This kind of over thinking is the stuff that is going to make the series finale feel unfulfilling. Once you start imagining all this stuff weaved into the bare facts they have given us, you make it way more built up then it has to be. And because it's all your own creation, it will never be addressed, and then you will be pissed. Trust me, I've done it to myself a million times.
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: jamesl on March 10, 2010, 01:03:42 PM
yeah, we know he really was a slave and he really was on the ship
the thing we're responding to and wondering is if Richard was born in the 1800's or 1000's of years earlier

he could be egyptian from the time of the pyramids and have been given immortality from Jacob,
then MIB played a cruel joke and somehow orchestrated Richard's capture and selling into slavery 
the joke being, "yeah, you're immortal, but you're going to spend it all as a slave"
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: razzle-dazzle on March 10, 2010, 01:13:00 PM
I'm not buying that Richard would be on the Blackrock. It sure looks like he was, as Bob laid out all the reasons why we've seen for him being on the ship.

While Richard Alpert is an english name, (and the real Richard Alpert was from the States), Nestor is hispanic (Cuban/Catalan) and looks it. I can buy Spain or anywhere south and east of it. Maybe he was a pirate and was captured? Who knows.....
I am not an expert in 19th century shipping, but I thought most crewmen were from the port town of the ship.
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: Suzanne4au2 on March 10, 2010, 01:19:00 PM
maybe his real name isn't Richard Alpert....
is there any historical significance to that name, I have never looked it up
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: lostfan777 on March 10, 2010, 01:23:55 PM
yeah, we know he really was a slave and he really was on the ship
the thing we're responding to and wondering is if Richard was born in the 1800's or 1000's of years earlier

he could be egyptian from the time of the pyramids and have been given immortality from Jacob,
then MIB played a cruel joke and somehow orchestrated Richard's capture and selling into slavery 
the joke being, "yeah, you're immortal, but you're going to spend it all as a slave"


Yeah, this is what I was saying.  We have a Richard-centric episode coming up.  We already know he doesn't age because of a gift from Jacob's touch and he has been on the Black Rock before, but hasn't been 'back' on it since arriving on the island.  So if his entire story is that he was a slave on the ship and saved by Jacob who then made him immortal, then what do we need a whole episode for?  There must be something else to learn about him.

maybe his real name isn't Richard Alpert....
is there any historical significance to that name, I have never looked it up

Also Ilana called him by his Latin name, maybe because the others speak Latin or maybe because his origins go back that far.
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: ozman776 on March 10, 2010, 01:25:10 PM
maybe his real name isn't Richard Alpert....
is there any historical significance to that name, I have never looked it up

Richard Head seems APT right now...
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: Suzanne4au2 on March 10, 2010, 01:29:24 PM
I did find one famous Richard Alpert but he is more current than I would have expected and it's a stretch:

Richard Alpert (born April 6, 1931), also known as Baba Ram Dass, is a contemporary spiritual teacher who wrote the 1971 bestseller Remember Be Here Now. He is well known for his personal and professional association with Timothy Leary at Harvard University in the early 1960s. He is also known for his travels to India and his relationship with the Hindu guru Neem Karoli Baba.

source:Wikipedia
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: BobBX542 on March 10, 2010, 01:42:24 PM
yeah, we know he really was a slave and he really was on the ship
the thing we're responding to and wondering is if Richard was born in the 1800's or 1000's of years earlier

he could be egyptian from the time of the pyramids and have been given immortality from Jacob,
then MIB played a cruel joke and somehow orchestrated Richard's capture and selling into slavery 
the joke being, "yeah, you're immortal, but you're going to spend it all as a slave"


Right, I understand what you're saying, and on a certain level, I would agree with that, if this weren't the last season. What I'm saying is that line of thinking is all wrong. Do you think that this late into the game they are going to try and put on this extra layer of detail about him being an ancient egyptian from thousands of years BEFORE The Black Rock?? We don't even have the complete story about what happened with The Black Rock yet, and it's the last season. I think it is far more sensible to assume that Richard was just a slave or prisoner on The Black Rock, and Jacob rescued him, then gave him this gift.

I know you are kind of hung up on Richard's appearance, and even I totally understand that, but I posted this in another thread in an attempt to understand how they could explain Richard's unique look...

I'm deffinitely thinking he was a slave. I originally thought he was like a crewman or something, but I knew he arrived on that boat.
Where do you think he was a slave from? I was talking about this the other day, and I couldn't come up with anything that made sense.

Okay, so, after doing some super quick research, this is what I came up with. Partial facts, partial wiki, partial opinion...And heeeeeeeere we go.

Well, Richard Alpert is played by Nestor Carbonell who is born of Cuban and Catalan (Spaniard) descent (courtesy of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestor_Carbonell). And since the LOST writers are usually pretty good at keeping that kind of stuff in check, I'm assuming that they will use some kind of historical accuracy when explaining his origin. So how does that help us?? Well, according to the power of the wiki...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_slave_trade
African Slave trade

"Slavery in North Africa...between the 16th and 19th centuries...The coastal villages and towns of Italy, Portugal, Spain and Mediterranean islands were frequently attacked by them [Barbary pirates]"

Since the Black Rock set sail on March 22nd, 1845, that falls into the time period of "between the 16th and 19th centuries" Now Barbary pirates obviously weren't on a ship coming out of Portsmouth, but maybe, juuuuuuuust maybe, this ship decided for some reason to take on some unpaid help in order to do the mining. I'm not sure how you would sail in order to get to Siam (Thailand) from England, but it seems reasonable to think that you would pass by Spain. Now, if you're wiliing to take that journey with me, then this shouldn't be too hard to also swallow, but what if the sailors on the black rock decided to take advantage of the Burbary pirates viciousness, and just swooped in and took a bunch of people with them.

Now, this might be a stretch, and I'm not even sure where a person with Catalan descent would come from in Spain (North, south, East, West???), but since slaves were taken from Spain, this would make the most sense to me. I'm not in love with this idea, but like I said, it does make sense...kinda.

Now, like I said, I am completely aware that I might be wrong, and despite the direct kind of phrasing I use here, I am not trying to implicate that you are wrong, I guess I am just throwing out the idea that we have been overlooking the really obvious explanations for the past 6 years, and now is when we NEED to accept what they are telling us.
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: BobBX542 on March 10, 2010, 01:44:01 PM
I did find one famous Richard Alpert but he is more current than I would have expected and it's a stretch:

Richard Alpert (born April 6, 1931), also known as Baba Ram Dass, is a contemporary spiritual teacher who wrote the 1971 bestseller Remember Be Here Now. He is well known for his personal and professional association with Timothy Leary at Harvard University in the early 1960s. He is also known for his travels to India and his relationship with the Hindu guru Neem Karoli Baba.

source:Wikipedia

That might be why the writers chose the name, but since the Black Rock was back from 1845, LOST's Richard Alpert probably doesn't have a connection to a person who wasn't born yet. LOL
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: Suzanne4au2 on March 10, 2010, 01:53:05 PM
yeah that is why I almost didn't even post it lol. but with all the spiritual stuff and India I thought hey maybe lol. But definitely not! A good laugh though
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: BobBX542 on March 10, 2010, 01:54:17 PM
yeah that is why I almost didn't even post it lol. but with all the spiritual stuff and India I thought hey maybe lol. But definitely not! A good laugh though

Like I said, probably why the writers picked it, but other than that, no connection. Good find though. I'll have to look him up. Anybody that worked with Dr. Leary is interesting by default.
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: Suzanne4au2 on March 10, 2010, 01:55:36 PM
yeah that is why I almost didn't even post it lol. but with all the spiritual stuff and India I thought hey maybe lol. But definitely not! A good laugh though

Like I said, probably why the writers picked it, but other than that, no connection. Good find though. I'll have to look him up. Anybody that worked with Dr. Leary is interesting by default.
oh yeah this guy and Horace's interrogator would have gotten along real well hehe
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: Shivy on March 10, 2010, 02:09:50 PM
I was really dissapointed to hear that Richard doesn't have any more of a clue as to what's going on than the losties.  Yes, I believe he still has a ton of knowledge about the island to share but as far as the true meaning behind all of what Jacob and MIB do, he has no clue- that suxs!
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: lostfan777 on March 10, 2010, 02:21:10 PM
yeah, we know he really was a slave and he really was on the ship
the thing we're responding to and wondering is if Richard was born in the 1800's or 1000's of years earlier

he could be egyptian from the time of the pyramids and have been given immortality from Jacob,
then MIB played a cruel joke and somehow orchestrated Richard's capture and selling into slavery 
the joke being, "yeah, you're immortal, but you're going to spend it all as a slave"


Right, I understand what you're saying, and on a certain level, I would agree with that, if this weren't the last season. What I'm saying is that line of thinking is all wrong. Do you think that this late into the game they are going to try and put on this extra layer of detail about him being an ancient egyptian from thousands of years BEFORE The Black Rock?? We don't even have the complete story about what happened with The Black Rock yet, and it's the last season. I think it is far more sensible to assume that Richard was just a slave or prisoner on The Black Rock, and Jacob rescued him, then gave him this gift.


I'd be satisfied with that explanation of his backstory, hell that would make him old enough to impress me.  But, without discussing spoilers here, I was under the impression we were going to get his back story in a later episode.  Now I'm wondering if even the spoilers are being fed to us because I was honestly and pleasantly surprised last night.
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: BobBX542 on March 10, 2010, 03:19:45 PM
I'd be satisfied with that explanation of his backstory, hell that would make him old enough to impress me.  But, without discussing spoilers here, I was under the impression we were going to get his back story in a later episode.  Now I'm wondering if even the spoilers are being fed to us because I was honestly and pleasantly surprised last night.

Well, this is not a spoiler, so don't worry about that, but the episode Ab Aeterno (sp??) is suppossed to be a Richard episode, and to answer your question, there is deffinitely enough we DON'T know about him that could fill an episode, so I'm sure we won't be disappointed.

Now, to address your post, and I'm not trying to sound condescending, but really, you didn't see what happened with him coming from a mile away last night??
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: lostfan777 on March 10, 2010, 03:29:20 PM
I'd be satisfied with that explanation of his backstory, hell that would make him old enough to impress me.  But, without discussing spoilers here, I was under the impression we were going to get his back story in a later episode.  Now I'm wondering if even the spoilers are being fed to us because I was honestly and pleasantly surprised last night.

Well, this is not a spoiler, so don't worry about that, but the episode Ab Aeterno (sp??) is suppossed to be a Richard episode, and to answer your question, there is deffinitely enough we DON'T know about him that could fill an episode, so I'm sure we won't be disappointed.

Now, to address your post, and I'm not trying to sound condescending, but really, you didn't see what happened with him coming from a mile away last night??

Honestly, no, I've been under the assumption that he'd be laying low until 3/23, Ab Aeterno.  I really didn't expect to see him play that big of a role until then.  I thought he might pop in a time or two like he did with Sawyer (and then scamper away again until his cue), so i was taken off guard last night which was a nice change.
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on March 10, 2010, 03:46:02 PM
Haunting to see Richard on the Black Rock.  He goes straight to what I'm assuming were HIS set of manacles.  Ericd posted a great cap in the screen grabs thread, and it shows several scratches on the wood.  Like Richard was keeping track of the weeks or months.  I found it interesting that he went specifically to the Black Rock to try and die, like he feels he should have died there long ago.  He could have just asked one of them to shoot him (lots less dramatic!) but it just feels right for him to want to die in the vessel that brought him to the island.  Nice closure.  Well, he had the IDEA of closure...
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: BobBX542 on March 10, 2010, 03:49:44 PM
I'd be satisfied with that explanation of his backstory, hell that would make him old enough to impress me.  But, without discussing spoilers here, I was under the impression we were going to get his back story in a later episode.  Now I'm wondering if even the spoilers are being fed to us because I was honestly and pleasantly surprised last night.

Well, this is not a spoiler, so don't worry about that, but the episode Ab Aeterno (sp??) is suppossed to be a Richard episode, and to answer your question, there is deffinitely enough we DON'T know about him that could fill an episode, so I'm sure we won't be disappointed.

Now, to address your post, and I'm not trying to sound condescending, but really, you didn't see what happened with him coming from a mile away last night??

Honestly, no, I've been under the assumption that he'd be laying low until 3/23, Ab Aeterno.  I really didn't expect to see him play that big of a role until then.  I thought he might pop in a time or two like he did with Sawyer (and then scamper away again until his cue), so i was taken off guard last night which was a nice change.

Oh, okay, nevermind, I misunderstood what you meant. But yeah, I was actually surprised myself to see him be in it for more than 20 seconds as well.

Haunting to see Richard on the Black Rock.  He goes straight to what I'm assuming were HIS set of manacles.  Ericd posted a great cap in the screen grabs thread, and it shows several scratches on the wood.  Like Richard was keeping track of the weeks or months.  I found it interesting that he went specifically to the Black Rock to try and die, like he feels he should have died there long ago.  He could have just asked one of them to shoot him (lots less dramatic!) but it just feels right for him to want to die in the vessel that brought him to the island.  Nice closure.  Well, he had the IDEA of closure...

You know what I found real interesting about that part?? When Jack says something like, "He wants to die, there really isn't anything we can do to stop him." I started laughing, because yeah, there was something they could have done to stop him...NOT KILL HIM!! He just got through tell ing them how he can't kill himself and he needs someone else to do it, so I just don't see the logic in that.
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: thebeann on March 10, 2010, 05:18:49 PM
Voice of reason = BobBX542

It is too late in the game to develop a storyline for Richard outside the context of what we already know. Richard was in shackles on the Black Rock, that's how he got to the island...as a human prisoner, who was then given a gift from Jacob and became somewhat immortal. He remained ageless, and....let's be frank....friggin', smokin' hot! (Yeah...I would tap that any day of the week.

Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: RM on March 10, 2010, 05:51:48 PM
Did Jacob touch Michael and give him a gift?

I wondered about that, too.  Plus, didn't the mugger actually try to shoot Michael and the gun jammed?  That's more than not being able to kill yourself.  Tom told Michael that he couldn't die (by any means) until the Island was through with him, right?  Then, it was Christian[MIB?] who finally told Michael his work was done and allowed him to be blown up on the freighter.

- - - - - -

I know Richard is (a) freaked out by the death of Jacob and MIB run amok, and (b) he's seen it all (including time-jumping Locke) . . . BUT he told Sun that he "watched them all die" back in 1977.  So why isn't Richard surprised to see Jack and Hurley alive and well in 2007?

Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: vickilynn on March 10, 2010, 06:46:36 PM
MIB could have kept Richard in the chains we saw last night, but it could have been after the Black Rock was already marooned on the island, if you get what I mean.
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: Numbers Junkie on March 10, 2010, 07:21:01 PM
MIB could have kept Richard in the chains we saw last night, but it could have been after the Black Rock was already marooned on the island, if you get what I mean.

possible...

...and btw, It did cross my mind as to how he just shows up all the time and disappears into the background.
similar to smokey perhaps? white smoke? lol!
he did say to Hurley when he asked, that it's complicated, so maybe there is more to Ricardo than being immortal.
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: nomteticus on March 10, 2010, 07:28:36 PM
I don't think Richard was enslaved by MIB. By the way MIB was talking, it seemed like he  offered him a deal, but he chose Jacob instead.
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: Rebel 3:16 on March 10, 2010, 08:03:36 PM
I am totally into the theory that Richard was a slave (in chains) on the Black Rock and was freed and given a gift by Jacob, but what I dont buy into is why the hell he suddenly starts taking orders from young Ben?
After all, he says he has been there longer than we can imagine, Ben meanwhile in contrast has been there 2 minutes, so is this purely upon Jacobs orders? If so, I am not surprised he is pissed with big J!

So what do we know? Before Ben was shot by Sayid Widmore and Hawkins were running the camp, Richard was basically a go between for Widmore and even got a rollocking of CW for taking Ben to the temple to be healed, so was Dogen Charles' replacement on the Island? Or was it Ben?

Sheesh this get more confusing the more I think about it!

Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: Numbers Junkie on March 10, 2010, 08:18:32 PM
I am totally into the theory that Richard was a slave (in chains) on the Black Rock and was freed and given a gift by Jacob, but what I dont buy into is why the hell he suddenly starts taking orders from young Ben?
After all, he says he has been there longer than we can imagine, Ben meanwhile in contrast has been there 2 minutes, so is this purely upon Jacobs orders? If so, I am not surprised he is pissed with big J!

So what do we know? Before Ben was shot by Sayid Widmore and Hawkins were running the camp, Richard was basically a go between for Widmore and even got a rollocking of CW for taking Ben to the temple to be healed, so was Dogen Charles' replacement on the Island? Or was it Ben?

Sheesh this get more confusing the more I think about it!






Widmore was banished (by Jacob through Ben) for having a child off island (Penny!) and he has been trying to get back ever since.
I guess we saw his return at the end of last nights episode, but he did not stop at the beach he kept going....to the statue maybe? to find Jacob maybe? to take revenge maybe? Where is Eloise? Is she going to get Dez back to the island somehow to save the day?!

And all in all, Richard doesn't really take orders from anyone other than Jacob, he is just following Jack's lead b/c he is in the know right now, but unless Jack becomes the new Jacob, Richard is really keeping his cards close to his chest.

Btw, Richard, slave on the Black Rock, he related to the chains and he was willing to die where it all began, but I guess we'll see in 2 weeks...
...Can't wait for Ab Aeterno!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: thebeann on March 10, 2010, 08:59:22 PM
I am totally into the theory that Richard was a slave (in chains) on the Black Rock and was freed and given a gift by Jacob, but what I dont buy into is why the hell he suddenly starts taking orders from young Ben?
After all, he says he has been there longer than we can imagine, Ben meanwhile in contrast has been there 2 minutes, so is this purely upon Jacobs orders? If so, I am not surprised he is pissed with big J!

So what do we know? Before Ben was shot by Sayid Widmore and Hawkins were running the camp, Richard was basically a go between for Widmore and even got a rollocking of CW for taking Ben to the temple to be healed, so was Dogen Charles' replacement on the Island? Or was it Ben?

Sheesh this get more confusing the more I think about it!



See, I originally hought Richard latched onto Ben because he (Ben) could see ghosts. At that time in the series, it was sort of implied that "Jacob" (or whoever was in the shack) was a ghost (Ben talking to empty chair, but then "Help me" and the flash of an image). Richard seemed to take an interest in Ben when he heard that Ben saw his dead mother. So I thought maybe they needed someone to communicate with this "ghost" and here comes Ben. But now we know that Jacob was in fact a real person who could be killed, not a ghost so it doesn't add up (but nor does the whole "shack" thing....if that was really Jacob, why did he say "help me?" He appeared to be freely moving about the island and off, so that whole thing doesn't make sense...).

I am at a loss as to how Ben rose to power, unless Jacob had something to do with it.
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: LostinLock on March 10, 2010, 10:13:41 PM
Does this mean Richard is definitely from the Black Rock? He said he hadn't been back to see the ship his whole time on the island, and he looked at the chains which makes us think of MIB telling him something about last seeing him in chains. The thing is, I thought Richard was from further back in time. He does tell Jack that he has been "alive" longer than he could ever imagine.

he could be from ancient greece or ancient rome and still have been a prisoner on the black rock,
maybe put there by MIB himself

I was thinking that too.  I always thought he looked 'Egyptian' with the (they say it's natural!) guyliner, so I've been hoping for an ancient Egypt tie-in to go with the hatch symbols and all the writings and stuff.  When people started to theorize that he was from the Black Rock I thought that would be a disappointment, not far back enough to be overly impressive.  So the only way we can all be right is if he is from way way back (ancient Egypt) but got caught up as a slave on the Black Rock for awhile.  I wonder if they travelled off the island all the way back that far.  The only thing that tells me this is wrong is that in the first beach scene with Jacob and MIB, with the Black Rock offshore, it seemed like we were meant to feel as if they had been alone on the island for awhile.  Jacob was drawing 'new' people to the island, as MIB said, to try to 'prove him wrong' again and that it 'always ends the same'.  I guess there could have been followers there with him already, but it just didn't seem that way to me.

Guys, this is just one more of those things that I have been talking about that you can't look too deeply into with this season. They aren't making it too difficult for us here. When Locke said to Richard that he was "glad to see him out of those chains", they weren't talking metaphorically. BUT, for the people that were still on the fence, they show us this episode with Richard, standing in the Black Rock, looking at the manicles/shackles/CHAINS, and he says that he came her on the ship, and hasn't been back since. I really don't think TPTB can make it any more clear.

BUT, obviously there is a really good chance I'm wrong. We will all find out in 2 weeks when we get the Richard episode. I really would like to give you, and everyone else, a little piece of advice though. This kind of over thinking is the stuff that is going to make the series finale feel unfulfilling. Once you start imagining all this stuff weaved into the bare facts they have given us, you make it way more built up then it has to be. And because it's all your own creation, it will never be addressed, and then you will be pissed. Trust me, I've done it to myself a million times.

Bob thanks for saving me the time and effort in posting wa that you in my dreams pulling my thoughts with you wand?
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: BobBX542 on March 11, 2010, 11:32:08 AM
Bob thanks for saving me the time and effort in posting wa that you in my dreams pulling my thoughts with you wand?

Well, I'm just stating things the way I see them, everyone is free to think whatever they want.
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: opgelost on March 11, 2010, 02:25:05 PM
But where did he appear from?
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: BobBX542 on March 11, 2010, 03:38:43 PM
But where did he appear from?

Huh??
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: opgelost on March 11, 2010, 03:55:36 PM
RICHARD: You're both wrong.

[Jack and Hurley look up at Richard, who has just emerged from the jungle]

RICHARD: The Temple's that way.

JACK: Where did you come from?

RICHARD: You wouldn't believe me if I told you.

JACK: Try me.

RICHARD: Not yet. But if you wanna go to the Temple, it's this way.
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: BobBX542 on March 11, 2010, 03:58:51 PM
RICHARD: You're both wrong.

[Jack and Hurley look up at Richard, who has just emerged from the jungle]

RICHARD: The Temple's that way.

JACK: Where did you come from?

RICHARD: You wouldn't believe me if I told you.

JACK: Try me.

RICHARD: Not yet. But if you wanna go to the Temple, it's this way.

Oh, well he told us, he was coming back from the temple. You mean how did he just show up in the jungle right where Jack and Hurley were?? Well hell, that's been happening for 6 years with all of the characters. You can't start nit picking that now. LOL
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: opgelost on March 11, 2010, 04:03:04 PM
But he is almost going to tell it.
Not yet, but almost.
Hurley asked if he was timetravelling and he said no.
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: BobBX542 on March 11, 2010, 04:16:01 PM
Oh, I see what you're saying there, well, I guess you could kind of take what he said a few different ways. Like, maybe he was kind of saying it as a smart a$$ remark as if to say, "If I told you I came from a pirate ship, you wouldn't believe me." OR he was thinking that if he told them he just came from the temple and everyone was dead, they wouldn't believe him. It could be interpreted a few ways, but I think you shouldn't over think it.

The last time we saw him, he was talking to Sawyer and then he took off running through the jungle, presumably towards the temple. Then the next time we see him, he is running through the jungle. I don't think he like time traveled, or went through an alternate reality or anything like that. Just do what I have been doing this season, and accept what they tell you/show you. You will be able to enjoy it so much more.
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: lostfan777 on March 11, 2010, 04:40:45 PM
I think his answer (you wouldn't believe me) was the writers' way of stalling, moving the scene without having to give us any answers just yet.  If Jack hadn't asked, we'd be screaming 'Why wasn't Jack curious about where this guy popped up from?'  So he asked and got sidestepped for the moment.

As to whether Richard can also become a 'smoke entity', I think if he could, he would have used that to avoid or get away from MIB and he certainly wouldn't have been trapped in that tarp for too long!
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: Sweet Old Lady on March 11, 2010, 04:42:59 PM
I am totally into the theory that Richard was a slave (in chains) on the Black Rock and was freed and given a gift by Jacob, but what I dont buy into is why the hell he suddenly starts taking orders from young Ben?
After all, he says he has been there longer than we can imagine, Ben meanwhile in contrast has been there 2 minutes, so is this purely upon Jacobs orders? If so, I am not surprised he is pissed with big J!

So what do we know? Before Ben was shot by Sayid Widmore and Hawkins were running the camp, Richard was basically a go between for Widmore and even got a rollocking of CW for taking Ben to the temple to be healed, so was Dogen Charles' replacement on the Island? Or was it Ben?

Sheesh this get more confusing the more I think about it!



See, I originally hought Richard latched onto Ben because he (Ben) could see ghosts. At that time in the series, it was sort of implied that "Jacob" (or whoever was in the shack) was a ghost (Ben talking to empty chair, but then "Help me" and the flash of an image). Richard seemed to take an interest in Ben when he heard that Ben saw his dead mother. So I thought maybe they needed someone to communicate with this "ghost" and here comes Ben. But now we know that Jacob was in fact a real person who could be killed, not a ghost so it doesn't add up (but nor does the whole "shack" thing....if that was really Jacob, why did he say "help me?" He appeared to be freely moving about the island and off, so that whole thing doesn't make sense...).

I am at a loss as to how Ben rose to power, unless Jacob had something to do with it.
I think that Richard and his people were waiting for a prophecy to be fulfilled.  They seem to be expecting a leader/savior who recovered from an apparently mortal wound, who can comminucate with the dead, and who killed his own father.  The Purge may have been engineered by Richard et al to force a fulfillment of prophecy or to test Ben's fitness to be the leader/savior.  When Ben tried to get Locke to kill Cooper it might have been a test to see if Locke is The One.  That explains Ben's announcement to the Others that "He isn't who we thought he is" when Locke initially refused to kill Cooper.  Several of the candidates fall into at least one of those catagories.
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: CaseyMac on March 11, 2010, 05:02:58 PM
I am totally into the theory that Richard was a slave (in chains) on the Black Rock and was freed and given a gift by Jacob, but what I dont buy into is why the hell he suddenly starts taking orders from young Ben?
After all, he says he has been there longer than we can imagine, Ben meanwhile in contrast has been there 2 minutes, so is this purely upon Jacobs orders? If so, I am not surprised he is pissed with big J!

So what do we know? Before Ben was shot by Sayid Widmore and Hawkins were running the camp, Richard was basically a go between for Widmore and even got a rollocking of CW for taking Ben to the temple to be healed, so was Dogen Charles' replacement on the Island? Or was it Ben?

Sheesh this get more confusing the more I think about it!



See, I originally hought Richard latched onto Ben because he (Ben) could see ghosts. At that time in the series, it was sort of implied that "Jacob" (or whoever was in the shack) was a ghost (Ben talking to empty chair, but then "Help me" and the flash of an image). Richard seemed to take an interest in Ben when he heard that Ben saw his dead mother. So I thought maybe they needed someone to communicate with this "ghost" and here comes Ben. But now we know that Jacob was in fact a real person who could be killed, not a ghost so it doesn't add up (but nor does the whole "shack" thing....if that was really Jacob, why did he say "help me?" He appeared to be freely moving about the island and off, so that whole thing doesn't make sense...).

I am at a loss as to how Ben rose to power, unless Jacob had something to do with it.
I think that Richard and his people were waiting for a prophecy to be fulfilled.  They seem to be expecting a leader/savior who recovered from an apparently mortal wound, who can comminucate with the dead, and who killed his own father.  The Purge may have been engineered by Richard et al to force a fulfillment of prophecy or to test Ben's fitness to be the leader/savior.  When Ben tried to get Locke to kill Cooper it might have been a test to see if Locke is The One.  That explains Ben's announcement to the Others that "He isn't who we thought he is" when Locke initially refused to kill Cooper.  Several of the candidates fall into at least one of those catagories.

You know, S.O.L., that is a really interesting theory. When you think about it, Jack indirectly had a part in his father's death too. Maybe there is some sort of prophecy we will hear about.
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: Sweet Old Lady on March 11, 2010, 05:37:29 PM
I am totally into the theory that Richard was a slave (in chains) on the Black Rock and was freed and given a gift by Jacob, but what I dont buy into is why the hell he suddenly starts taking orders from young Ben?
After all, he says he has been there longer than we can imagine, Ben meanwhile in contrast has been there 2 minutes, so is this purely upon Jacobs orders? If so, I am not surprised he is pissed with big J!

So what do we know? Before Ben was shot by Sayid Widmore and Hawkins were running the camp, Richard was basically a go between for Widmore and even got a rollocking of CW for taking Ben to the temple to be healed, so was Dogen Charles' replacement on the Island? Or was it Ben?

Sheesh this get more confusing the more I think about it!



See, I originally hought Richard latched onto Ben because he (Ben) could see ghosts. At that time in the series, it was sort of implied that "Jacob" (or whoever was in the shack) was a ghost (Ben talking to empty chair, but then "Help me" and the flash of an image). Richard seemed to take an interest in Ben when he heard that Ben saw his dead mother. So I thought maybe they needed someone to communicate with this "ghost" and here comes Ben. But now we know that Jacob was in fact a real person who could be killed, not a ghost so it doesn't add up (but nor does the whole "shack" thing....if that was really Jacob, why did he say "help me?" He appeared to be freely moving about the island and off, so that whole thing doesn't make sense...).

I am at a loss as to how Ben rose to power, unless Jacob had something to do with it.
I think that Richard and his people were waiting for a prophecy to be fulfilled.  They seem to be expecting a leader/savior who recovered from an apparently mortal wound, who can comminucate with the dead, and who killed his own father.  The Purge may have been engineered by Richard et al to force a fulfillment of prophecy or to test Ben's fitness to be the leader/savior.  When Ben tried to get Locke to kill Cooper it might have been a test to see if Locke is The One.  That explains Ben's announcement to the Others that "He isn't who we thought he is" when Locke initially refused to kill Cooper.  Several of the candidates fall into at least one of those catagories.

You know, S.O.L., that is a really interesting theory. When you think about it, Jack indirectly had a part in his father's death too. Maybe there is some sort of prophecy we will hear about.
Maybe the prophecy is about betraying one's own father instead of actually killing him.  That would include Sun and Jin.  Jin's betrayal took the form of denying his father.  Jack betrayed his dad when he caused him to be fired from his position at the hospital when he revealed that Christian was operating drunk.  I've elaborated on this and posted it under http://lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php/topic,10146.msg610171.html#msg610171 (http://lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php/topic,10146.msg610171.html#msg610171)
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: FireLily on March 11, 2010, 07:41:44 PM

Guys, this is just one more of those things that I have been talking about that you can't look too deeply into with this season. They aren't making it too difficult for us here. When Locke said to Richard that he was "glad to see him out of those chains", they weren't talking metaphorically. BUT, for the people that were still on the fence, they show us this episode with Richard, standing in the Black Rock, looking at the manicles/shackles/CHAINS, and he says that he came her on the ship, and hasn't been back since. I really don't think TPTB can make it any more clear.

BUT, obviously there is a really good chance I'm wrong. We will all find out in 2 weeks when we get the Richard episode. I really would like to give you, and everyone else, a little piece of advice though. This kind of over thinking is the stuff that is going to make the series finale feel unfulfilling. Once you start imagining all this stuff weaved into the bare facts they have given us, you make it way more built up then it has to be. And because it's all your own creation, it will never be addressed, and then you will be pissed. Trust me, I've done it to myself a million times.

Agreed, on all counts.    ;D
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: LostinLock on March 11, 2010, 08:11:09 PM
Oh, I see what you're saying there, well, I guess you could kind of take what he said a few different ways. Like, maybe he was kind of saying it as a smart a$$ remark as if to say, "If I told you I came from a pirate ship, you wouldn't believe me." OR he was thinking that if he told them he just came from the temple and everyone was dead, they wouldn't believe him. It could be interpreted a few ways, but I think you shouldn't over think it.

The last time we saw him, he was talking to Sawyer and then he took off running through the jungle, presumably towards the temple. Then the next time we see him, he is running through the jungle. I don't think he like time traveled, or went through an alternate reality or anything like that. Just do what I have been doing this season, and accept what they tell you/show you. You will be able to enjoy it so much more.

Oh Bob you are in my head to much I love it.  I am thinking does much of this bs matter?

I think his answer (you wouldn't believe me) was the writers' way of stalling, moving the scene without having to give us any answers just yet.  If Jack hadn't asked, we'd be screaming 'Why wasn't Jack curious about where this guy popped up from?'  So he asked and got sidestepped for the moment.

As to whether Richard can also become a 'smoke entity', I think if he could, he would have used that to avoid or get away from MIB and he certainly wouldn't have been trapped in that tarp for too long!

Yes absolutely
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: thebeann on March 11, 2010, 09:47:42 PM
Interesting. Kate killed her father. Sawyer's dad killed himself. But Hugo's dad is alive and well. Blows that theory.
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: Sweet Old Lady on March 11, 2010, 11:11:28 PM
Interesting. Kate killed her father. Sawyer's dad killed himself. But Hugo's dad is alive and well. Blows that theory.
I beg to differ.  All it means is that Hugo isn't The One.  My theory is about Richard's people waiting for a prophecy to be fulfilled, not about who fulfills it.  The fact that Hurley's dad is alive doesn't prove that there was no prophecy.
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: BobBX542 on March 11, 2010, 11:55:17 PM
Oh, I see what you're saying there, well, I guess you could kind of take what he said a few different ways. Like, maybe he was kind of saying it as a smart a$$ remark as if to say, "If I told you I came from a pirate ship, you wouldn't believe me." OR he was thinking that if he told them he just came from the temple and everyone was dead, they wouldn't believe him. It could be interpreted a few ways, but I think you shouldn't over think it.

The last time we saw him, he was talking to Sawyer and then he took off running through the jungle, presumably towards the temple. Then the next time we see him, he is running through the jungle. I don't think he like time traveled, or went through an alternate reality or anything like that. Just do what I have been doing this season, and accept what they tell you/show you. You will be able to enjoy it so much more.

Oh Bob you are in my head to much I love it.  I am thinking does much of this bs matter?

Well, it could have been a valid question a few seasons ago if one of the others just popped out of the woods as if by magic...OH SNAP!! IT DID!! Remember when Harper just appeared in the woods in S4E6 (The Other Woman)?? Now that was a genuine mystery. She's not there, whisperwhisperwhisper, she's there, whisperwhisperwhisper, she's not there. I would STILL like to know how that happened. Richard, not so much.
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: lostfan777 on March 12, 2010, 10:23:02 AM
I think that Richard and his people were waiting for a prophecy to be fulfilled.  They seem to be expecting a leader/savior who recovered from an apparently mortal wound, who can comminucate with the dead, and who killed his own father.  The Purge may have been engineered by Richard et al to force a fulfillment of prophecy or to test Ben's fitness to be the leader/savior.  When Ben tried to get Locke to kill Cooper it might have been a test to see if Locke is The One.  That explains Ben's announcement to the Others that "He isn't who we thought he is" when Locke initially refused to kill Cooper.  Several of the candidates fall into at least one of those catagories.

I love the prophecy angle.  The story line of Ben challenging Locke to kill his father was very odd.  There was also the time Richard tells Locke that the others were staring at him because they were excited that 'there was a man with a broken spine on the plane who could suddenly walk'.  Could this have been part of the prophecy also?  My only problem is that none of the candidates seem to fit the role yet.  Jack didn't kill his dad, he got him fired.  It may have led to his death, but that doesn't sound like a 'prophecy fulfilling act'.  Kate didn't kill her dad, she killed her step-dad, right?  Locke didn't kill his dad, either, he had Sawyer do it.  Sawyer's dad killed himself.

I just posted in another thread that I felt Ben was on his way back from the bottom and will find redemption by sacrificing himself for the island and its' new leader.  But if this prophecy angle has merit, Ben is the only one who has killed his own father, AND, while he didn't miraculously recover from a broken back, get out of a wheelchair and walk, he did have a tumor growing on his spine that would have killed him until a spinal surgeon miraculously fell from the sky!  Maybe ben will have his island back after all....
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: Suzanne4au2 on March 12, 2010, 11:21:14 AM
I really hope they address the comment Richard made about "seeing all of them die". This has been bugging me since he said it and I would love to know what he meant by that.
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: Sweet Old Lady on March 12, 2010, 11:52:20 AM
I think that Richard and his people were waiting for a prophecy to be fulfilled.  They seem to be expecting a leader/savior who recovered from an apparently mortal wound, who can comminucate with the dead, and who killed his own father.  The Purge may have been engineered by Richard et al to force a fulfillment of prophecy or to test Ben's fitness to be the leader/savior.  When Ben tried to get Locke to kill Cooper it might have been a test to see if Locke is The One.  That explains Ben's announcement to the Others that "He isn't who we thought he is" when Locke initially refused to kill Cooper.  Several of the candidates fall into at least one of those catagories.

I love the prophecy angle.  The story line of Ben challenging Locke to kill his father was very odd.  There was also the time Richard tells Locke that the others were staring at him because they were excited that 'there was a man with a broken spine on the plane who could suddenly walk'.  Could this have been part of the prophecy also?  My only problem is that none of the candidates seem to fit the role yet.  Jack didn't kill his dad, he got him fired.  It may have led to his death, but that doesn't sound like a 'prophecy fulfilling act'.  Kate didn't kill her dad, she killed her step-dad, right?  Locke didn't kill his dad, either, he had Sawyer do it.  Sawyer's dad killed himself.

I just posted in another thread that I felt Ben was on his way back from the bottom and will find redemption by sacrificing himself for the island and its' new leader.  But if this prophecy angle has merit, Ben is the only one who has killed his own father, AND, while he didn't miraculously recover from a broken back, get out of a wheelchair and walk, he did have a tumor growing on his spine that would have killed him until a spinal surgeon miraculously fell from the sky!  Maybe ben will have his island back after all....
I posted elsewhere that Ben is a very good candidate and may end up being The One.  His mortal wound was when he was a child and Sayid shot him.  He was healed in the temple and Richard's people made it happen.  I'm sure there is a prophecy but I'm only guessing what it says based on the Other Others' interests.  Kate killed her biological father who wasn't married to her mother at the time she was conceived.  I'm getting excited about the possibilities for the endgame.
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: CaseyMac on March 12, 2010, 01:59:19 PM
I really hope they address the comment Richard made about "seeing all of them die". This has been bugging me since he said it and I would love to know what he meant by that.

I'd like that to be more clear too. Right now, I'm kinda assuming he had a vantage point of the Swan Incident, saw some sort of flash then everyone disappear, and just assumed they died.
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: opgelost on March 12, 2010, 02:02:39 PM
When Richard visited Locke at his birth in cabin fever, before we knew that they travelled through time
I thought Richard was looking for a boy, born 2 months too early who had a mother named Emily and
that he went to see Locke at birth and when he was 6. But Locke chose the wrong items, so Richard went for Ben
to discover 40 years later that he made a mistake and John was the one he needed.

I dropped that thought when later they began timetravelling and we discovered that Richard was at John's birth,
because John visited him in 1954 and made Richard think that he was special, but he was not special, he was
"just" travelling through time.

But now we know that Locke was send to 1954 by MIB to con Richard into believing that Locke was special and
knew Jacob so that Richard would bring him (or who he thought was him) to Jacob 50 years later.

Maybe it is a prophecy.
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: thebeann on March 12, 2010, 04:09:49 PM
When Richard visited Locke at his birth in cabin fever, before we knew that they travelled through time
I thought Richard was looking for a boy, born 2 months too early who had a mother named Emily and
that he went to see Locke at birth and when he was 6. But Locke chose the wrong items, so Richard went for Ben
to discover 40 years later that he made a mistake and John was the one he needed.

I dropped that thought when later they began timetravelling and we discovered that Richard was at John's birth,
because John visited him in 1954 and made Richard think that he was special, but he was not special, he was
"just" travelling through time.

But now we know that Locke was send to 1954 by MIB to con Richard into believing that Locke was special and
knew Jacob so that Richard would bring him (or who he thought was him) to Jacob 50 years later.

Maybe it is a prophecy.

What did I miss? How did MIB send Locke back to 1954? I thought he just landed there in the time flashes.

I need a flowchart! :-)
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: CaseyMac on March 12, 2010, 04:15:53 PM
When Richard visited Locke at his birth in cabin fever, before we knew that they travelled through time
I thought Richard was looking for a boy, born 2 months too early who had a mother named Emily and
that he went to see Locke at birth and when he was 6. But Locke chose the wrong items, so Richard went for Ben
to discover 40 years later that he made a mistake and John was the one he needed.

I dropped that thought when later they began timetravelling and we discovered that Richard was at John's birth,
because John visited him in 1954 and made Richard think that he was special, but he was not special, he was
"just" travelling through time.

But now we know that Locke was send to 1954 by MIB to con Richard into believing that Locke was special and
knew Jacob so that Richard would bring him (or who he thought was him) to Jacob 50 years later.

Maybe it is a prophecy.

What did I miss? How did MIB send Locke back to 1954? I thought he just landed there in the time flashes.

I need a flowchart! :-)

MIB took Richard, with his paradox compass, to Locke in 2007 at the Beechcraft, so Richard could give the compass to John to give back to Richard back in 1954 as proof. MIB was sort of pulling the strings of the whole thing because he seemed to be the only one who knew the right timing of Locke's time flash to 2007.

A flowchart would be way helpful...but I can just imagine how convoluted it would be lol.
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: Numbers Junkie on March 13, 2010, 09:33:10 PM
When Richard visited Locke at his birth in cabin fever, before we knew that they travelled through time
I thought Richard was looking for a boy, born 2 months too early who had a mother named Emily and
that he went to see Locke at birth and when he was 6. But Locke chose the wrong items, so Richard went for Ben
to discover 40 years later that he made a mistake and John was the one he needed.

I dropped that thought when later they began timetravelling and we discovered that Richard was at John's birth,
because John visited him in 1954 and made Richard think that he was special, but he was not special, he was
"just" travelling through time.

But now we know that Locke was send to 1954 by MIB to con Richard into believing that Locke was special and
knew Jacob so that Richard would bring him (or who he thought was him) to Jacob 50 years later.

Maybe it is a prophecy.


Which is why Richard was suspect of Locke the whole time.
I still think that Richard knows the most and will reveal the most as to what is going on.
Ab Aeterno!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9egLvSEL_EM
she seems to recognize him and he knows it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmKcKiz05Ns&feature=related

A famous scene.


Locke's smokey drawing too!
The comic of hidden land! (the island)

Richard seemed pretty upset about Locke choosing the knife...

Such a great scene!

Also, Locke is playing backgammon and Richard notes it, that has been a theme all along since season 1 ,dark and light, 2 sides, Jacob and MIB! There is a scene (in season 1) with Locke explaining the game to Walt:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn-g8OmkEIE

What a chilling scene now that we know what we know...so good, one of my favorites of the show!!!

I miss Walt, I hope he comes back to play a role, but I don't think so. He and Locke have such a good relationship. It could make sense.

Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: LouE68 on March 13, 2010, 10:52:09 PM

Guys, this is just one more of those things that I have been talking about that you can't look too deeply into with this season. They aren't making it too difficult for us here. When Locke said to Richard that he was "glad to see him out of those chains", they weren't talking metaphorically. BUT, for the people that were still on the fence, they show us this episode with Richard, standing in the Black Rock, looking at the manicles/shackles/CHAINS, and he says that he came her on the ship, and hasn't been back since. I really don't think TPTB can make it any more clear.

BUT, obviously there is a really good chance I'm wrong. We will all find out in 2 weeks when we get the Richard episode. I really would like to give you, and everyone else, a little piece of advice though. This kind of over thinking is the stuff that is going to make the series finale feel unfulfilling. Once you start imagining all this stuff weaved into the bare facts they have given us, you make it way more built up then it has to be. And because it's all your own creation, it will never be addressed, and then you will be pissed. Trust me, I've done it to myself a million times.

Agreed, on all counts.    ;D
What? How dare you take the wind out of the fanfics sails!!! ;D

I say in jest....

I think I said what you said Bob, back in like S2....;D
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: LovDom on March 14, 2010, 09:26:41 AM
For a moment there I thought he was going to die. Just like all the other hot men on this series die. Leave us some eye-candy!  8)
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: LostinLock on March 14, 2010, 02:06:50 PM
It still could be his metphoric chains
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: Numbers Junkie on March 15, 2010, 02:30:11 AM
It still could be his metphoric chains

from the look of Richard he seems pretty "attached" to them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maZQb2aWF-I&feature=PlayList&p=3DABB1F997A838A4&index=21

you kind of feel for the guy. He's a great character and seems so good all along on the show...

Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: BobBX542 on March 15, 2010, 11:18:54 AM
It still could be his metphoric chains

And everyman truly is an island. LOL
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: zeekloveslost on March 15, 2010, 05:36:00 PM
Well, it could have been a valid question a few seasons ago if one of the others just popped out of the woods as if by magic...OH SNAP!! IT DID!! Remember when Harper just appeared in the woods in S4E6 (The Other Woman)?? Now that was a genuine mystery. She's not there, whisperwhisperwhisper, she's there, whisperwhisperwhisper, she's not there. I would STILL like to know how that happened. Richard, not so much.

I'm pretty sure that in this scene, Harper was the MIB.  After whispers, she appears out of nowhere to deliver a message (allegedly from Ben) that Juliet is supposed to stop Charlotte and Daniel from completing their mission at the Tempest.  Harper said that the folks on the freighter were planning to kill everyone in the island with the nerve gas.  Funny thing about this situation is that during the time that Harper was supposedly under Ben's orders, Ben was being imprisoned by Locke downstairs in the Barracks  in the same room in which Locke's father was previously constrained. This is the same time that Miles asks for the $3.2 million.
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: BobBX542 on March 15, 2010, 07:58:47 PM
Well, it could have been a valid question a few seasons ago if one of the others just popped out of the woods as if by magic...OH SNAP!! IT DID!! Remember when Harper just appeared in the woods in S4E6 (The Other Woman)?? Now that was a genuine mystery. She's not there, whisperwhisperwhisper, she's there, whisperwhisperwhisper, she's not there. I would STILL like to know how that happened. Richard, not so much.

I'm pretty sure that in this scene, Harper was the MIB.  After whispers, she appears out of nowhere to deliver a message (allegedly from Ben) that Juliet is supposed to stop Charlotte and Daniel from completing their mission at the Tempest.  Harper said that the folks on the freighter were planning to kill everyone in the island with the nerve gas.  Funny thing about this situation is that during the time that Harper was supposedly under Ben's orders, Ben was being imprisoned by Locke downstairs in the Barracks  in the same room in which Locke's father was previously constrained. This is the same time that Miles asks for the $3.2 million.

That is possible that Harper was the MIB, but I never associated the whispers with the smoke monster. Especially after the episode where we see Ben kidnap Alex. He tells her that if she wants to live, whenever she hears whispers in the jungle, to run the other way. That tells me they are directly associated with the Others because you can't really make a threat on someone else's behalf, because as we have seen, Smokey doesn't automatically kill whoever he comes in to contact with...just most of them. LOL
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: LostinLock on March 15, 2010, 09:09:03 PM
Harper is not dead - so she can't be MIB
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: zeekloveslost on March 17, 2010, 02:29:43 PM
Harper is not dead - so she can't be MIB

You win.  hehe.  Just realized that it was indeed Harper (not dead), but that her orders were not from Ben as she claimed. Could her orders have been from the MIB (perhaps even appearing as someone else?  She says that although Ben is a prisoner, he is "exactly where he wants to be."  We keep hearing this phrase, usually associated with the MIB. 
Title: Re: Damn, Richard!
Post by: BobBX542 on March 17, 2010, 03:24:33 PM
Not that it's that important, but I was just wondering, how do we know she isn't dead??