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Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 6 => Episode 6x05 => Topic started by: nomteticus on March 03, 2010, 06:17:39 AM

Title: MIB is the winner
Post by: nomteticus on March 03, 2010, 06:17:39 AM
I said this in another post, but I think we're close to getting one BIG answer to the questions "who wins the war between Jacob and MIB?" and "what are the flashsideways"?

In the flashsideways, the island is buried underground, but the world still goes on, negating the importance Jacob has put on protecting the island. So we know that Jacob is wrong. The world may not be better without the island, but it's obviously not worse. Now, how can the flashsideways world be connected to the big war? Simple. What we see in the alternate time is what happens if MIB wins. The island is gone, Jacob isn't there to influence the Others' lives anymore, Sayid gets what he is promised (Nadia alive) and so on. It is a remodelled world without Jacob, and guess what, it's not a disaster!

Now you ask me how did MIB manage to sink the island and negate all the on-island Lostie experience? Well, he may have used the donkey wheel, or even the numbers in a way, who knows? But the point is, he is not evil, just a man who wants to go home.
Title: Re: MIB is the winner
Post by: lostlady on March 03, 2010, 08:13:15 AM
Yes, I guess if MIB is the winner then Dogan is off island with his son. We saw him at the recital. I think you are right, without JAcob influencing their lives they would have been much better off....
Title: Re: MIB is the winner
Post by: Suzanne4au2 on March 03, 2010, 08:58:08 AM
The only part with Jacob coming to see everyone is that he came to see Hurley after they got back from the island. Everyone else was visited prior to the crash. Very mind boggling
Title: Re: MIB is the winner
Post by: dragonflyk on March 03, 2010, 09:02:36 AM
I thought the island sank as a result of Faraday's original idea of blowing it up with jughead? ???
Title: Re: MIB is the winner
Post by: bfth on March 03, 2010, 09:26:31 AM
I'm not convinced that the MIB wins.
Title: Re: MIB is the winner
Post by: lostfan777 on March 03, 2010, 09:28:44 AM
What I'm wondering about is the 'good vs. evil' theme.  They have portrayed MIB as evil to a degree that I don't believe they can turn it around and say he is the good guy.  I mean, the good guys don't kill everyone who disagrees with them.  But on the other hand, Jacob has also come off as a real ass at times also.  Offering to save Dogen's son if he leaves him behind forever sounds like a 'deal with the devil' to me.  Could it be that they are both evil and we have yet to meet the hero of the story?

I'm not convinced that the MIB wins.

I'm with you on this one....it's too early for the MIB to break out the bubbly!
Title: Re: MIB is the winner
Post by: nomteticus on March 03, 2010, 10:11:28 AM
No, but it doesn't make sense for the flashes to be the alternate post-Jughead universe. Even the writers said it's not an 'alternate' universe. And since they're really spending a lot of time to show us these flashbacks, I guess they are the characters' final stories. Jack became friends with his son, Hurley is a successful businessman, Locke got over his handicap, Kate seems to have stopped running, Sayid can't get rid of his killer side (so it was not Jacob here), Ben's an innocent teacher etc. They still have some memories from their Jacob-influenced lives, but that's it. It wouldn't make sense to have so much screentime if those are not actually how their stories will end. And since the island is underwater, that makes me think that MIB won. And I don't think an H-Bomb can sink an island. Maybe it's been sunk for centuries. We only know the statue was still built.
Title: Re: MIB is the winner
Post by: BobBX542 on March 03, 2010, 12:15:21 PM
I said this in another post, but I think we're close to getting one BIG answer to the questions "who wins the war between Jacob and MIB?" and "what are the flashsideways"?

In the flashsideways, the island is buried underground, but the world still goes on, negating the importance Jacob has put on protecting the island. So we know that Jacob is wrong. The world may not be better without the island, but it's obviously not worse. Now, how can the flashsideways world be connected to the big war? Simple. What we see in the alternate time is what happens if MIB wins. The island is gone, Jacob isn't there to influence the Others' lives anymore, Sayid gets what he is promised (Nadia alive) and so on. It is a remodelled world without Jacob, and guess what, it's not a disaster!

Now you ask me how did MIB manage to sink the island and negate all the on-island Lostie experience? Well, he may have used the donkey wheel, or even the numbers in a way, who knows? But the point is, he is not evil, just a man who wants to go home.


I don't know how I feel about this. I mean it seems to make alot of sense, and it seems pretty logical to me, but it doesn't feel right. Hmmmm, consider me on the fence about this, but I'll be damned if you're not making a whole lot of sense here.
Title: Re: MIB is the winner
Post by: Maxor127 on March 03, 2010, 12:41:38 PM
I like that idea.  I may have been willing to buy into it if it weren't for seeing Dharmaville underwater.  That tells me Dharma was on the island and the island sunk sometime in the second half of the 20th century.  I don't fully buy into Jughead causing it either though.
Title: Re: MIB is the winner
Post by: Blitz Wing on March 03, 2010, 12:59:21 PM
The only part with Jacob coming to see everyone is that he came to see Hurley after they got back from the island. Everyone else was visited prior to the crash. Very mind boggling

Didn't Jacob see Sayid after the crash too? When Nadia got ran over by the car? He asked Sayid for directions.
Title: Re: MIB is the winner
Post by: BobBX542 on March 03, 2010, 03:47:51 PM
The only part with Jacob coming to see everyone is that he came to see Hurley after they got back from the island. Everyone else was visited prior to the crash. Very mind boggling

Didn't Jacob see Sayid after the crash too? When Nadia got ran over by the car? He asked Sayid for directions.


True that.
Title: Re: MIB is the winner
Post by: zeekloveslost on March 03, 2010, 04:26:24 PM
What I'm wondering about is the 'good vs. evil' theme.  They have portrayed MIB as evil to a degree that I don't believe they can turn it around and say he is the good guy.  I mean, the good guys don't kill everyone who disagrees with them.  But on the other hand, Jacob has also come off as a real ass at times also.  Offering to save Dogen's son if he leaves him behind forever sounds like a 'deal with the devil' to me.  Could it be that they are both evil and we have yet to meet the hero of the story?

I'm not convinced that the MIB wins.

I'm with you on this one....it's too early for the MIB to break out the bubbly!

Actually "good guys" kill people who don't agree with them all the time. Read a history book.  The Allies really hated those Nazis. They just had different ideas about how the world should be. Bam. Dead.  I'm sure we can all come up with many more examples.  Flippin' radical Muslim extremists.  They just want everyone to behave according to their holy book. The world would be peaceful if they did. But the damn Westerners won't comply so they are undertaking what we call terrorist acts. So what do the Western "good guys" do? Kill them. And that's OK with us isn't it?
Title: Re: MIB is the winner
Post by: CaseyMac on March 03, 2010, 04:44:20 PM
I know I'm waaaayyy over-simplifying it but...the cowboy in the white hat is the good guy, and the cowboy in the black hat is the bad guy.

I like your theory, but I'm sticking to Jacob = good, MIB = evil.
Title: Re: MIB is the winner
Post by: nomteticus on March 03, 2010, 05:38:36 PM
Forgot about Dharma being on the sunken island. That kind of makes my theory less plausible. But did we see anything Dharma related except for the shark?
Title: Re: MIB is the winner
Post by: opgelost on March 03, 2010, 05:53:25 PM
Just a complete village.
Title: Re: MIB is the winner
Post by: BobBX542 on March 03, 2010, 09:52:56 PM
Just a complete village.

But that's it.
Title: Re: MIB is the winner
Post by: LouE68 on March 03, 2010, 10:04:39 PM
I said this in another post, but I think we're close to getting one BIG answer to the questions "who wins the war between Jacob and MIB?" and "what are the flashsideways"?

In the flashsideways, the island is buried underground, but the world still goes on, negating the importance Jacob has put on protecting the island. So we know that Jacob is wrong. The world may not be better without the island, but it's obviously not worse. Now, how can the flashsideways world be connected to the big war? Simple. What we see in the alternate time is what happens if MIB wins. The island is gone, Jacob isn't there to influence the Others' lives anymore, Sayid gets what he is promised (Nadia alive) and so on. It is a remodelled world without Jacob, and guess what, it's not a disaster!Now you ask me how did MIB manage to sink the island and negate all the on-island Lostie experience? Well, he may have used the donkey wheel, or even the numbers in a way, who knows? But the point is, he is not evil, just a man who wants to go home.

I had something similar to this in another thread...it was so blindingly obvious..I had to do a double take in my head LOL
Title: Re: MIB is the winner
Post by: lostfan777 on March 04, 2010, 10:17:41 AM
What I'm wondering about is the 'good vs. evil' theme.  They have portrayed MIB as evil to a degree that I don't believe they can turn it around and say he is the good guy.  I mean, the good guys don't kill everyone who disagrees with them.  But on the other hand, Jacob has also come off as a real ass at times also.  Offering to save Dogen's son if he leaves him behind forever sounds like a 'deal with the devil' to me.  Could it be that they are both evil and we have yet to meet the hero of the story?

I'm not convinced that the MIB wins.

I'm with you on this one....it's too early for the MIB to break out the bubbly!

Actually "good guys" kill people who don't agree with them all the time. Read a history book.  The Allies really hated those Nazis. They just had different ideas about how the world should be. Bam. Dead.  I'm sure we can all come up with many more examples.  Flippin' radical Muslim extremists.  They just want everyone to behave according to their holy book. The world would be peaceful if they did. But the damn Westerners won't comply so they are undertaking what we call terrorist acts. So what do the Western "good guys" do? Kill them. And that's OK with us isn't it?

Whoa, I didn't mean to open up that can of worms!!! 
Title: Re: MIB is the winner
Post by: zeekloveslost on March 09, 2010, 04:40:20 PM
Whoa, I didn't mean to open up that can of worms!!! 

No can of worm open here. I just think it's important to realize that everyone thinks of themselves as the good guys.  Political parties are always saying the other side is crazy or stupid, but they want the same thing (the best for the country), but have different ideas of what that is exactly and how to get it.

And outside of learning life lessons here, I honestly think that is one of the main points of the show. No good or bad - just "different."  Or "the other."
Title: Re: MIB is the winner
Post by: lostfan777 on March 10, 2010, 10:25:48 AM
I honestly think that is one of the main points of the show. No good or bad - just "different."  Or "the other."

True, that is probably one of the points they want to make with regard to the characters.  Everyone has some good and bad in them.  But I think Jacob and the MIB will be more defined in the end as either 'good' or 'bad'.  I don't think they are going to be two shades of gray.  I actually have no actual knowledge of this, it's just how I expect it to play out.  I'm thinking along the lines of Stephen King's 'The Stand' and I'm certainly not the first person to be reminded of that story here.
Title: Re: MIB is the winner
Post by: nomteticus on March 10, 2010, 12:01:11 PM
The writers did say that The Stand was a major influence, and the whole recruiting business seems to be hinting, towards the same story, and yet Randall Flagg was the kind of guy who stirred trouble everywhere he went, putting one group of people against the other,  but MIB never wanted anything to do with people, and Jacob apparently forced him to be a manipulator. And his purpose does not seem to be to create chaos, just to leave the island.