Sledgeweb's Lost ... Stuff Forum

Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 6 => Episode 6x02 => Topic started by: Bostonlost on February 10, 2010, 02:52:12 AM

Title: "Because there's a war coming, John"
Post by: Bostonlost on February 10, 2010, 02:52:12 AM
I think this line is really taking shape here.....


I feel the Oceanic/miles somehow holds the key in who wins the war. I think Dogan knows this. And watching this Episode really made me remember that line.
Title: Re: "Because there's a war coming, John"
Post by: vickilynn on February 10, 2010, 09:10:18 AM
Definitely. I'm just not sure yet how the sides are going to line up.
Title: Re: "Because there's a war coming, John"
Post by: red255 on February 10, 2010, 09:39:22 AM
Do you mean Miles the character? beacuse I am thinking he knows more about Sayid than he he is saying. He is asking some strange questions and when Sayid was 'dead' he sat over him and said something like "nothing, there is nothing" sort of like there was no spirit talking to him and he was very confused. I think the fact that he can comunicate with spirits of the dead will be a key factor in this so called war!
 

I think this line is really taking shape here.....


I feel the Oceanic/miles somehow holds the key in who wins the war. I think Dogan knows this. And watching this Episode really made me remember that line.





Title: Re: "Because there's a war coming, John"
Post by: Rebel 3:16 on February 11, 2010, 03:21:21 PM
Totally agree, also I think the fact Miles communicates with the dead and Hurley has actually seen and spoken to the dead is going to be key.
I was thinking about the dead people that Hurley has interacted with, Dave, Charlie, Christian and Jacob (any more?) have all died different ways, on Island and off Island, murdered, not been buried or given their last rites (not sure about Dave, but I presume he died off Island and was buried) - so they are quite a random bunch, not much in common except they visit Hurley.
So the statement about Hurley being 'the new leader' could ring true in a sense that he speaks for the dead people, or is at least advised by them.
What are the chances of Libby tipping up for another chat with Hurley? And the damned bird, again, what was that all about, the others saw the bird (even commenting it said Hurley's name) but no other person see's the dead people who visit him, maybe with the exception of Miles?
We saw a little comedy duo emerging last season, the Hurley and Miles show - special guest.... anyone who's dead?
Title: Re: "Because there's a war coming, John"
Post by: CaseyMac on February 11, 2010, 05:10:42 PM
Very cool thoughts, guys.

I had kind of put this line to rest already. I thought that it was just referencing Keemey and his merry band of mercenaries from Not Penny's Boat. Like alot of things, I probably have my timing off.

They were coming to take Ben, the Leader of The Others. The Losties weren't exactly on the best footing with The Others. So I just thought the 'war' Richard was talking about was Ben v. Widmore and his mercenaries, and as Ben said last season, "And how did that work out for them?" 8)
Title: Re: "Because there's a war coming, John"
Post by: Rebel 3:16 on February 11, 2010, 05:43:26 PM
Good point Casey, but in the battle vs Keemey's mob - where was our friendly Asian Other Dogam and his merry men?
I think if this was the war that was refered to then every man available would have shown up on the battlefield, Dogum and Lennon included.....
Title: Re: "Because there's a war coming, John"
Post by: laklost on February 11, 2010, 06:23:43 PM
Great thinking in this thread.  But I think the reason Dogen and pals didn't completely show up is because they are the keepers of the temple.  The temple is not just a place, it's the center of their island worship and where they receive their gift - or sentencing, depending on how you see it.  Dogen only fights when the temple proper is being threatened.  We may consider that the other attacks we have seen are secondary - while the attack that is about to be launched against the temple is full on island sacrilege.  There's no higher place of authority on the island.  Otherville was not as powerful as the Swan.  Otherville is not as powerful as the temple.
Title: Re: "Because there's a war coming, John"
Post by: Rebel 3:16 on February 11, 2010, 06:38:56 PM
Good point!  ;D

However if Widmores gang were willing to torch the Island then that would have included the Temple, so unless we werent shown it, the Temple crew must have at least been on full alert?

Unless that is, there only threat is Smokey... ticka ticka...
Title: Re: "Because there's a war coming, John"
Post by: Adriana on February 11, 2010, 06:42:31 PM
I get the impression they pretty much regard any and all other threats of violence and destruction as child's play.  They're only afraid of Smokey. 

They didn't even come out of the woodwork at any point in time when there was a nuclear warhead hanging around the island -- either above or under the ground, or when the DI was drilling into key pockets of electromagnetic energy. 

The Temple People are pretty BAMF-y in that way.
Title: Re: "Because there's a war coming, John"
Post by: Rebel 3:16 on February 11, 2010, 06:42:36 PM
Also, if MiB is about to lay seige on the Temple, he could have done that at any point?
If it is due to Jacob's demise then the timing is crucial - no Jacob = prime time to attack.
Which could mean that if, as has been suggested, Sayid is possessed by Jacob, why would they want to kill him?
Title: Re: "Because there's a war coming, John"
Post by: laklost on February 11, 2010, 06:43:43 PM
Maybe Widmore was willing to try to destroy Smokey, the temple, the Others.  I still think Ben's Others were the first line of defense, with Richard overseeing the next wave and Dogen overseeing the inner circle of the island.

I don't believe for a second that Sayid is infected with Jacob.  Jacob heals.  Smokey possesses (that's a lot of s's).
Title: Re: "Because there's a war coming, John"
Post by: Rebel 3:16 on February 11, 2010, 07:16:54 PM
So that means Smokey can have multiple vessel's? I can go with that I guess. (thats alot of s's too)  ;D
Title: Re: "Because there's a war coming, John"
Post by: Adriana on February 11, 2010, 07:22:20 PM
So that means Smokey can have multiple vessel's? I can go with that I guess. (thats alot of s's too)  ;D

I think this actually gets to the point that there's contention about.  Are Smokey and "the infection" one and the same? 

If they ARE one and the same, then Smokey is currently in Locke's body at the beach, AND now in Sayid's body at the temple, AND in Claire's body running around the forest ... and that would suggest he can be in multiple vessels at once.

HOWEVER -- when he appeared to Ben as Alex under the temple wall, UNLocke *disappeared* while Alex was in front of Ben.  Similarly, UNLocke disappeared while Smokey killed Jacob's SWAT team in the foot statue.  This would suggest that he CANNOT inhabit multiple vessels at once.

..... I think I've just convinced myself that Smokey and the Infection are actually 2 separate things, now ... bringing our total of "other-worldly entities of ambiguous moral standing" to 3:

1: MIB/Smokey
2: Infection
3: Jacob

Yay, LSAT logic!!!

By this theory ... it's possible that the Infection is a tool used by MIB/Smokey (kind of like a magic spell), but not MIB/Smokey inhabiting bodies himself.
Title: Re: "Because there's a war coming, John"
Post by: CaseyMac on February 11, 2010, 07:23:20 PM
Stupid question time, but I need a refresher apperantly.

I didn't think Widmore was going to destroy the Island. Yeah, he was going to capture Ben alive, and then kill everyone else (Others and Losties), but was he going to try to destroy the Island?

I remember Daniel and Charlotte turning off the poison gas that Ben used to kill the Dharmas.
Title: Re: "Because there's a war coming, John"
Post by: Rebel 3:16 on February 11, 2010, 07:30:36 PM
Im sure his orders were to take Ben and torch the Island - which in essence sounds quite drastic but after reading other comments, the torching of the Island may rid it of human interference without damaging the mystical powers the Island holds.
Title: Re: "Because there's a war coming, John"
Post by: CaseyMac on February 11, 2010, 07:49:20 PM
By this theory ... it's possible that the Infection is a tool used by MIB/Smokey (kind of like a magic spell), but not MIB/Smokey inhabiting bodies himself.


Actually, that makes alot of sense! When Dogan is talking about Sayid, they are having a hard time translating what was happening to Sayid. If MIB was possessing him, then...well...they would say he is possessed. But if he is infected/claimed, then being under a "magic spell" sounds like a much closer fit.
Title: Re: "Because there's a war coming, John"
Post by: Rebel 3:16 on February 11, 2010, 07:53:26 PM
Also it seemed quite a co-incidence that they were torchering a torcherer (sp?) - my initial impression was they are giving out a bit of what Sayid used to deliver............
Title: Re: "Because there's a war coming, John"
Post by: CaseyMac on February 11, 2010, 11:33:19 PM
Also it seemd quite a co-incidence that they were torchuring a torchurer (sp?) - my initial impression was they are giving out a bit of what Sayid used to deliver............

Yeah, I'm not sure how that test was supposed to work because it looks like I probably would have failed it too. lol So maybe it wasn't really a test after all.

However, it did lead to one of my all time favorite Lost lines shortly afterward:
"They never even asked me any questions."
-Sayid, Lost
-Han Solo, Empire Strikes Back
Title: Re: "Because there's a war coming, John"
Post by: Adriana on February 12, 2010, 03:19:51 PM

Yeah, I'm not sure how that test was supposed to work because it looks like I probably would have failed it too. lol So maybe it wasn't really a test after all.


I would have failed it too.  99% of humans would have failed it! 

BUT -- Sayid also isn't like 99% of humans.  He's an experienced torturer, as noted above.  Maybe they expected him to handle the pain a lot better, and because of all of his screaming, they realized he was actually just trying to *sound* like a normal person would sound like.  Perhaps they knew that the REAL Sayid -- BAMF that he is -- wouldn't have screamed and cried so much.
Title: Re: "Because there's a war coming, John"
Post by: Rebel 3:16 on February 12, 2010, 04:25:46 PM
Good point Adriana, didnt we see Sayid getting a beating in a previous episode/ flashback - and if im remembering correctly he neither cried or screamed, more like grunting and holding his emotions in? I'll go have a look now......
Title: Re: "Because there's a war coming, John"
Post by: Rebel 3:16 on February 12, 2010, 04:28:45 PM
It was early on - when Danielle captured Sayid!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EDnFcnOgkQ

Actually after re-watching that it seems he acted pretty similar to our new Sayid.... except maybe he talks more?
Im not sure now :(
Title: Re: "Because there's a war coming, John"
Post by: opgelost on February 13, 2010, 06:03:16 AM
Maybe a not infected person would die with the voltage Dogen used.
He increased it, till Sayid started screaming, than he stopped it.
Maybe another person would scream earlier.
Title: Re: "Because there's a war coming, John"
Post by: red255 on February 16, 2010, 09:43:22 AM
I would say this is it! Think back to when they explained the French crew and how they got "sick", its the same thing. They become "infected" ,as Daniell explained it, with evil then they eventually all died. And it looks like Clair is following right in Daniells steps, maybe she is fighting it?!
But this brings up another question, what is with Christian? After all he was the one who took Clair away in the middle of the night. Was it MIB who took over his body? and if so how did he appear to Jack off island, so far it seems that only Jacob could leave.



So that means Smokey can have multiple vessel's? I can go with that I guess. (thats alot of s's too)  ;D

I think this actually gets to the point that there's contention about.  Are Smokey and "the infection" one and the same? 

If they ARE one and the same, then Smokey is currently in Locke's body at the beach, AND now in Sayid's body at the temple, AND in Claire's body running around the forest ... and that would suggest he can be in multiple vessels at once.

HOWEVER -- when he appeared to Ben as Alex under the temple wall, UNLocke *disappeared* while Alex was in front of Ben.  Similarly, UNLocke disappeared while Smokey killed Jacob's SWAT team in the foot statue.  This would suggest that he CANNOT inhabit multiple vessels at once.

..... I think I've just convinced myself that Smokey and the Infection are actually 2 separate things, now ... bringing our total of "other-worldly entities of ambiguous moral standing" to 3:

1: MIB/Smokey
2: Infection
3: Jacob

Yay, LSAT logic!!!

By this theory ... it's possible that the Infection is a tool used by MIB/Smokey (kind of like a magic spell), but not MIB/Smokey inhabiting bodies himself.

Title: Re: "Because there's a war coming, John"
Post by: Adriana on February 16, 2010, 10:51:47 AM
Yay- thanks!  It's also occurred me reading over my hypothesis above that if these are three separate entities:

1: Jacob
2: MIB/Smokey
3: The Infection

Then the Infection could be a tool being used EITHER by mib/smokey OR Jacob.  Based on how Rousseau's team acted while they were "infected," I think we can put infected people in the "Morally Bad" category.  But since we're not altogether positive which of Jacob or MIB/Smokey are the "bad" or "good" guy -- it's possible that either of them can use the infection as a tool in their own grand scheme.