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Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 6 => Episode 6x01 => Topic started by: Roman122 on February 03, 2010, 12:07:37 AM

Title: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: Roman122 on February 03, 2010, 12:07:37 AM
...or something like that.

Richard was a prisoner/slave on the black rock... I'm calling that now (I hope no one else has). For some reason, Jacob took it upon himself to give him eternal life? Richard and the Man in Black seem to have a history together. I'm thinking that the Man in Black wants to go to the temple.... the real one. I think that's "home"...
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: Ladybug on February 03, 2010, 12:10:30 AM
...or something like that.

Richard was a prisoner/slave on the black rock... I'm calling that now (I hope no one else has). For some reason, Jacob took it upon himself to give him eternal life? Richard and the Man in Black seem to have a history together. I'm thinking that the Man in Black wants to go to the temple.... the real one. I think that's "home"...
i'll buy that he was a prisoner of the black rock.  i don't know about the temple, but maybe so. 
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: jugdish on February 03, 2010, 12:11:29 AM
Thats good, I was thinking  that Man in Black had him as a prisoner or slave and Jacob saved him and gave him eternal life.
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: Roman122 on February 03, 2010, 12:11:41 AM
...or something like that.

Richard was a prisoner/slave on the black rock... I'm calling that now (I hope no one else has). For some reason, Jacob took it upon himself to give him eternal life? Richard and the Man in Black seem to have a history together. I'm thinking that the Man in Black wants to go to the temple.... the real one. I think that's "home"...
i'll buy that he was a prisoner of the black rock.  i don't know about the temple, but maybe so. 
Where else would "home" be? Underwater like in the opening sequence?
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: Ladybug on February 03, 2010, 12:14:25 AM
...or something like that.

Richard was a prisoner/slave on the black rock... I'm calling that now (I hope no one else has). For some reason, Jacob took it upon himself to give him eternal life? Richard and the Man in Black seem to have a history together. I'm thinking that the Man in Black wants to go to the temple.... the real one. I think that's "home"...
i'll buy that he was a prisoner of the black rock.  i don't know about the temple, but maybe so. 
Where else would "home" be? Underwater like in the opening sequence?
no, but it could be somewhere we haven't seen.  but the more i think about it the more i like the temple as his home.
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: Roman122 on February 03, 2010, 12:17:01 AM
Well, he's been close. He was under the passage to the temple when Ben was down there. It seems like that's where he's ultimately headed.
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: LockedInLost on February 03, 2010, 12:20:24 AM
Thats good, I was thinking  that Man in Black had him as a prisoner or slave and Jacob saved him and gave him eternal life.
Or no longer bound to Jacob?
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: Ladybug on February 03, 2010, 12:21:14 AM
Thats good, I was thinking  that Man in Black had him as a prisoner or slave and Jacob saved him and gave him eternal life.
Or no longer bound to Jacob?
AHHH!!  i like this too!!
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: Roman122 on February 03, 2010, 12:22:35 AM
Thats good, I was thinking  that Man in Black had him as a prisoner or slave and Jacob saved him and gave him eternal life.
Or no longer bound to Jacob?

It could be a figurative line, but I'm not so sure. Richard said "YOU!" like it's been a VERY long time since he's seen/heard from this man in black. Anybody have any theories as to who this might be? There's a history...
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: JMart on February 03, 2010, 12:30:05 AM
i think they were playing into our theories with that line. i bet it probably means that jacob had him in chains as his bitch
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: Austruck on February 03, 2010, 12:34:59 AM
Well, I'm going to start calling him the Man In Black SMOKE, since he's the smoke monster (which is why they were giving us hints at the end of season 5 by dressing him in black).

I assumed Richard said "YOU!" merely because he finally figured out who he was. And I'm guessing he hadn't seen him for whatever reason he also hadn't seen Jacob in person all that time. Plus, it seems the Man In Black has been cloaking himself as the Smoke Monster off and on throughout the decades... and Richard might have had a hard time recognizing him for that reason too.

It's like everyone suddenly realized that Jacob being dead ipso facto meant that the Man In Black was now in charge.
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: Ladybug on February 03, 2010, 12:37:58 AM
Well, I'm going to start calling him the Man In Black SMOKE, since he's the smoke monster (which is why they were giving us hints at the end of season 5 by dressing him in black).

I assumed Richard said "YOU!" merely because he finally figured out who he was. And I'm guessing he hadn't seen him for whatever reason he also hadn't seen Jacob in person all that time. Plus, it seems the Man In Black has been cloaking himself as the Smoke Monster off and on throughout the decades... and Richard might have had a hard time recognizing him for that reason too.

It's like everyone suddenly realized that Jacob being dead ipso facto meant that the Man In Black was now in charge.
exactly!  i think jacob is the "good guy" and has been protecting the island and the people on it, and they know it.  now that he's gone, they know they are in trouble.
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: Roman122 on February 03, 2010, 12:42:06 AM
Well, I'm going to start calling him the Man In Black SMOKE, since he's the smoke monster (which is why they were giving us hints at the end of season 5 by dressing him in black).

I assumed Richard said "YOU!" merely because he finally figured out who he was. And I'm guessing he hadn't seen him for whatever reason he also hadn't seen Jacob in person all that time. Plus, it seems the Man In Black has been cloaking himself as the Smoke Monster off and on throughout the decades... and Richard might have had a hard time recognizing him for that reason too.

It's like everyone suddenly realized that Jacob being dead ipso facto meant that the Man In Black was now in charge.
exactly!  i think jacob is the "good guy" and has been protecting the island and the people on it, and they know it.  now that he's gone, they know they are in trouble.

You just made me think of the line "it says that if we dont save your friend, we're all in alot of trouble" referring to the piece of paper. I LOVE the theory that Jacob has now taken over Sayid's body... this means that he's still around to protect...
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: Gutterball94 on February 03, 2010, 12:56:39 AM
I LOVE the theory that Jacob has now taken over Sayid's body... this means that he's still around to protect...

INDEED!! Nice thoughts.

Back to Richard though, if we are taking fake-Locke's comment literally I suggest that the Black Rock is too obvious an answer. If we're still to believe this Egyptian influence perhaps Richard is REALLY old.
The Egyptians were especially famous for slave labor, perhaps he beat the Black Rock there by a thousand years?

I'm more inclined to take it figuratively as well, but in the literal sense I don't like the Black Rock theory. It's almost not complicated enough... if that's even a legitimate complaint anymore.
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: Bostonlost on February 03, 2010, 12:59:56 AM
Could Richard be The Wandering Jew?
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: Austruck on February 03, 2010, 01:22:36 AM
Yeah, I am likin' the theory that Jacob has taken over Sayid's body -- like MIB has somehow "used" Locke's persona (but not his actual body) to take over too.

So, will this Jacob/MIB rivalry continue on forever? Has it already been going on forever? (Egyptians, etc.) And we're seeing only the most recent incarnation?

That'd explain Jacob and MIB sitting on the beach last season watching a ship coming in, knowing they'd seen this all before. The modern-day version is the plane landing, and the subs coming -- people always showing up, in whatever mode of transportation they have at the time.

And Jacob and MIB continue to struggle against each other above the fray....using the folks who show up to try to outdo each other.
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: Madam P on February 03, 2010, 01:27:06 AM
Where else would "home" be? Underwater like in the opening sequence?

Smokey-Locke's face morphed into such an evil-looking visage when he said that line, my first thought was "He's Satan - he wants to get back into Heaven."   That's probably playing too much into the whole Biblical thing, but I swear that's what popped into my head.

I like the "loosed from the chains of being bound to Jacob in servitude" thing, too.  Good catch, whoever thought it. 
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: GUTZandRAGE on February 03, 2010, 02:30:50 AM
Thats good, I was thinking  that Man in Black had him as a prisoner or slave and Jacob saved him and gave him eternal life.

I was going with that. I don't think he was a slave on the ship, but a slave to the man in black. He saw it fit to knock him the hell out and carry him into the island. Like he was reclaiming his property.
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: Madam P on February 03, 2010, 02:38:53 AM
That's a good thought.  Richard sure looked scared as heck when he said "YOU!?" when he recognized him.

Are we sure he just knocked him out?  My first thought was "Oh my gosh he killed him!" 
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: GUTZandRAGE on February 03, 2010, 02:41:55 AM
He got hit in the throat pretty hard. Thought his larynx was crushed. Then he was hit again very hard on the neck and face. He looked dead, but he probably isn't.
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: Blitz Wing on February 03, 2010, 08:01:07 AM
Richard was a prisoner/slave on the black rock... I'm calling that now (I hope no one else has). For some reason, Jacob took it upon himself to give him eternal life? Richard and the Man in Black seem to have a history together. I'm thinking that the Man in Black wants to go to the temple.... the real one. I think that's "home"...

OMG....I can so totally see that. I mean isn't that why Illianna called him Richardos?
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: LostinLock on February 03, 2010, 08:05:36 AM
Well it makes all the sense in the world about the black rock and the other stuff sorry but some of this is prediticible.
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: grizn0 on February 03, 2010, 09:04:21 AM
I've been saying he came on the Black Rock for some time now. And I'm sticking to it. And I don't know about the Jacob inhabiting Sayid thing. The fact that he says "What happened?" when he wakes up is a good indication that its not Jacob. Also, I dunno if everyone say Kimmel or not but Cuse and Lindelof said that "something" is in Sayid, but its not Jacob. Maybe trying to throw us off? Maybe not...
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: Maxor127 on February 03, 2010, 09:25:53 AM
I don't think it's Jacob either.
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: Blitz Wing on February 03, 2010, 09:45:02 AM
Maybe Sayid said "What happened" because like when little Ben got healed they said he won't remember what happened. They also said little Ben will never be the same, he'll always be one of them (Others) now. So does that mean Sayid will be different now, he'll be an Other?
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: lostlady on February 03, 2010, 09:57:01 AM
Yes, I am pretty sure Sayid is an other. He looked too confused when he woke up to be Jacob.
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: lostfan777 on February 03, 2010, 10:12:56 AM
Back to Richard though, if we are taking fake-Locke's comment literally I suggest that the Black Rock is too obvious an answer. If we're still to believe this Egyptian influence perhaps Richard is REALLY old.
The Egyptians were especially famous for slave labor, perhaps he beat the Black Rock there by a thousand years?

I agree and I've been hoping Richard's story goes all the way back to ancient Egypt.  The only thing that goes against this is a gut feeling that the beach scene with Jacob and The MIB seemed to suggest they were alone on the island at that time and Jabob was starting things up again by drawing the Black Rock (MIB said 'You brought them').   Also, my first thought was that The MIB meant Richard was free from serving Jacob, not that he had been a slave before.  And he definitely wasn't a slave to The MIB and saved by Jacob because why would MIB say 'it's nice to see you free'. 
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: lostfan777 on February 03, 2010, 10:13:27 AM
Smokey-Locke's face morphed into such an evil-looking visage when he said that line, my first thought was "He's Satan - he wants to get back into Heaven."   That's probably playing too much into the whole Biblical thing, but I swear that's what popped into my head.
 
I've been on the bible side from the beginning.  This WILL be an ultimate struggle of good vs. evil with the whole world held in the balance.  I almost jumped out of my seat when Jacob said 'it only ends once, everything else that happens is just progress'.
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: lostfan777 on February 03, 2010, 10:15:13 AM
Maybe Sayid said "What happened" because like when little Ben got healed they said he won't remember what happened. They also said little Ben will never be the same, he'll always be one of them (Others) now. So does that mean Sayid will be different now, he'll be an Other?

Good call, and the temple leader guy did say to Jack that there would be consequences before Jack said 'do what you have to do'.
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: lovinlost on February 03, 2010, 10:28:02 AM
...or something like that.

Richard was a prisoner/slave on the black rock... I'm calling that now (I hope no one else has). For some reason, Jacob took it upon himself to give him eternal life? Richard and the Man in Black seem to have a history together. I'm thinking that the Man in Black wants to go to the temple.... the real one. I think that's "home"...

Roman, I cannot tell you who or when, but at least one other person on this board has already theorized that Richard was a slave on the Black Rock.  Of course, I believe that last night solidified that theory.  THIS is going to be very interesting and exciting for me to learn more about.  Did you see the look on Richard's face when Flocke said that to him?  OMG, it was classic.  I loved it.  I love Richard, so it sucks that Flocke beat him up to shut him up.  I cannot wait to see what comes of that.  woohoo
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: lovinlost on February 03, 2010, 10:30:54 AM
Well, I'm going to start calling him the Man In Black SMOKE, since he's the smoke monster (which is why they were giving us hints at the end of season 5 by dressing him in black).

I assumed Richard said "YOU!" merely because he finally figured out who he was. And I'm guessing he hadn't seen him for whatever reason he also hadn't seen Jacob in person all that time. Plus, it seems the Man In Black has been cloaking himself as the Smoke Monster off and on throughout the decades... and Richard might have had a hard time recognizing him for that reason too.

It's like everyone suddenly realized that Jacob being dead ipso facto meant that the Man In Black was now in charge.

I got the same gut instinct response to when Richard said "You!"  He realized that MIB had taken Locke's body at that point in time.  Freakishly cool moment in the show.  Definitely one of my favorites.
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: vickilynn on February 03, 2010, 10:31:27 AM
I definitely was wanting more Richard last night! Why didn't he go into the chamber under the statue when Ben told him to? That might have cleared up a few questions!
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: lovinlost on February 03, 2010, 10:38:24 AM
I definitely was wanting more Richard last night! Why didn't he go into the chamber under the statue when Ben told him to? That might have cleared up a few questions!

Because he knew that it wasn't Locke in there.  Ben told him that John wanted to talk to him.  Richard knew that Locke's dead body was on the beach.  He knew he'd be walking into a trap, so he sent in the bodyguards, who were subsequently all killed.
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: SQUIRT199 on February 03, 2010, 12:18:54 PM
Seeing richard get his ass handed to him was pretty cool.
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: BurkRoyer on February 03, 2010, 12:29:22 PM
I love how they answer a question, "Who/What is the smoke monster?" and follow it with a new question, "Why was Richard in chains?"
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: Des on February 03, 2010, 01:00:53 PM
I love how they answer a question, "Who/What is the smoke monster?" and follow it with a new question, "Why was Richard in chains?"

Isn't that how LOST always does it?! lol
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: lostfromthestart on February 03, 2010, 01:18:22 PM
While I too had thought that Richard had been around since the Egyptian days gone by, it did seem that in the Jacob/MIB beach party scene that they made it appear that they were the only two "beings" on the island, and now Jacob was pulling in a slave ship to have some fun with.  If this is true, then the earliest time Richie could have joined the fun is as a slave on the chain gang.

I also loved the "YOU!!!"  response.  Classic.
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: zeekloveslost on February 03, 2010, 01:53:02 PM
Back to Richard though, if we are taking fake-Locke's comment literally I suggest that the Black Rock is too obvious an answer. If we're still to believe this Egyptian influence perhaps Richard is REALLY old.
The Egyptians were especially famous for slave labor, perhaps he beat the Black Rock there by a thousand years?

I'm more inclined to take it figuratively as well, but in the literal sense I don't like the Black Rock theory. It's almost not complicated enough... if that's even a legitimate complaint anymore.

First I want to clear this up. It is a myth that the pyramids were built by slaves. New evidence shows that the workers were honored with proper burials.
http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=540157

Second, I'm inclined to believe the "in chains" thing to be figurative - NOT literal.
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: zeekloveslost on February 03, 2010, 01:56:27 PM
OK OK, coming back right quick to say I'm leaning back on literal chains.

We know that Jacob and the MIB saw the ship coming towards the island, which we think is the Black Rock.
We know the Black Rock is a late-1800s British trading ship that also had slaves aboard.
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: msdoran on February 03, 2010, 02:05:18 PM
I don't know if anyone else has postulated it, but just from the way he was acting, and the way he looked at Richard Alpert, my first thought was "oh, I bet he was the black rock/slave ship captain".  Just something from the way he said it.
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: grizn0 on February 03, 2010, 02:17:13 PM
I don't know if anyone else has postulated it, but just from the way he was acting, and the way he looked at Richard Alpert, my first thought was "oh, I bet he was the black rock/slave ship captain".  Just something from the way he said it.
I kind of thought he might have been on the Black Rock too but.... he's Smokey. Who is Jacob's nemesis. So I don't know if I can see that happening.
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: misseko815 on February 03, 2010, 05:19:13 PM
Back to Richard though, if we are taking fake-Locke's comment literally I suggest that the Black Rock is too obvious an answer. If we're still to believe this Egyptian influence perhaps Richard is REALLY old.
The Egyptians were especially famous for slave labor, perhaps he beat the Black Rock there by a thousand years?

I agree and I've been hoping Richard's story goes all the way back to ancient Egypt.  The only thing that goes against this is a gut feeling that the beach scene with Jacob and The MIB seemed to suggest they were alone on the island at that time and Jabob was starting things up again by drawing the Black Rock (MIB said 'You brought them').   Also, my first thought was that The MIB meant Richard was free from serving Jacob, not that he had been a slave before.  And he definitely wasn't a slave to The MIB and saved by Jacob because why would MIB say 'it's nice to see you free'. 

I think he was being sarcastic when he said, "it's nice to see you free". Richard definitely didn't seem to have an affinity for MIB, and I think he was loyal to Jacob because he wanted to be, not because he was forced to.
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: hackgrid on February 03, 2010, 05:33:15 PM
Since Locke didn't want to leave the island I guess MIB wants/has to leave the island to return home - maybe egypt?
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: on the island on February 03, 2010, 05:35:59 PM
If we are to take the chains comment literally why hasn't MIB seen Richard in the last couple hundered years?  Actually, regardless of how he meant it, how have these two not seen each other?
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: vickilynn on February 03, 2010, 05:41:13 PM
Maybe he meant that he is no longer "chained" to Jacob?
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: hackgrid on February 03, 2010, 05:42:16 PM
If we are to take the chains comment literally why hasn't MIB seen Richard in the last couple hundered years?  Actually, regardless of how he meant it, how have these two not seen each other?

I guess MIB lived in "Jacobs cabin" until Ben and Locke visited him. The ash ring appeared to be intact before the entered the cabin, maybe one them (Locke?) damaged the ring so that MIB could get out. Richard knew that MIB was in the cabin but never told Ben about it because he hoped Ben would never find it - Ben found it by chance and used it to make it appear like Jacob would talk to him inside there.

I just wonder who was the smoke monster we have seen before they broke into the cabin - there has to be more "smoke monsters" on the island, I guess Jacob and MIB belong to that kind...maybe Richard too? Cerberus has three heads...
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: MangoBingo on February 03, 2010, 09:26:44 PM
My first thought was when we saw the ever-impeccable Richard dressed like a pirate in Ben's youth... In retrospect, he looked like an escaped prisoner.

(http://i26.tinypic.com/esns7b.jpg)

However... Seeing as Flocke is actually the Black Smoke Monster, I find it odd that he'd be unaware of Richard's activities - you know, that Smoke Monster really did the rounds... Has Richard ever mentioned encountering the Smoke Monster?
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: LostinLock on February 03, 2010, 10:08:57 PM
My first thought was when we saw the ever-impeccable Richard dressed like a pirate in Ben's youth... In retrospect, he looked like an escaped prisoner.

(http://i26.tinypic.com/esns7b.jpg)

However... Seeing as Flocke is actually the Black Smoke Monster, I find it odd that he'd be unaware of Richard's activities - you know, that Smoke Monster really did the rounds... Has Richard ever mentioned encountering the Smoke Monster?

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((MANGO)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))  I am going to be in your neck of the woods this May and expect to have that pint or more and to be huggled by Lil ........   I am bringing goodies so if they are legal let me know. PM or FB me.

Okay thanks for that picture and frankly by the way Flocke (like that) knocked him out and took him over his shoulder like the boar.  So we can say that Richard and MIB/Smokey know each other. ;) :-* :-* :-* :-*
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: MangoBingo on February 03, 2010, 10:29:35 PM
I am bringing goodies so if they are legal let me know. PM or FB me.

Don't go swallowing condoms filled with heroin! :D

I'll p.m. you at the weekend.  :)
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: LostinLock on February 03, 2010, 10:33:51 PM
I am bringing goodies so if they are legal let me know. PM or FB me.

Don't go swallowing condoms filled with heroin! :D

I'll p.m. you at the weekend.  :)

Okay and I gave up the heroine years ago!  Iwill be staying in Preston and we will be out and about in Lakes Region. I am trying to get a self catering time share from parents but we will see

(((((((((((mango))))))))))))))
Title: Re: "Good to see you out of those chains"
Post by: BobBX542 on February 04, 2010, 02:41:32 PM
Thats good, I was thinking  that Man in Black had him as a prisoner or slave and Jacob saved him and gave him eternal life.
Or no longer bound to Jacob?

It could be a figurative line, but I'm not so sure. Richard said "YOU!" like it's been a VERY long time since he's seen/heard from this man in black. Anybody have any theories as to who this might be? There's a history...

The way he said "you" sounded to me more like he never expected to see him again. This kind of makes me wonder if Richard knew that Smokie was Esau.