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Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 6 => Episode 6x13 => Topic started by: lostandfree on May 06, 2010, 11:07:36 PM

Title: How did Flocke know...
Post by: lostandfree on May 06, 2010, 11:07:36 PM
...that the sub had sunk?  It's a submarine.  It was already under the water.  And how did he know that everyone had died?  I was kind of under the impression that he could not see the survivors on the beach from the dock, so how did he know?
Title: Re: How did Flocke know...
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 07, 2010, 12:54:22 AM
Pretty sure as soon as all candidates to replace Jacob are killed and all existence is wiped out MiB will have some inclination that that he has won.
Title: Re: How did Flocke know...
Post by: lostfan777 on May 07, 2010, 11:33:03 AM
I got the feeling also that he could sense that some of them had died but not all.  Like there was a loosening of the restraints holding him to the island but he was not yet freed.  He could feel it.  I was picturing Yoda as the Jedi were killed off.  There was a disturbance in the force!   :o
Title: Re: How did Flocke know...
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 07, 2010, 11:39:17 AM
I got the feeling also that he could sense that some of them had died but not all.  Like there was a loosening of the restraints holding him to the island but he was not yet freed.  He could feel it.  I was picturing Yoda as the Jedi were killed off.  There was a disturbance in the force!   :o

MAYBE MIB'S NAME IS YODA!!!!!! He travelled across galaxies and time to land on the island and then that pesky Mark Pellegrino tried to bless him with Height and a normal body make up and skin color for the planet and Yoda has been fighting back ever since. ;D
Title: Re: How did Flocke know...
Post by: Madam P on May 07, 2010, 12:44:40 PM
I got the feeling also that he could sense that some of them had died but not all.  Like there was a loosening of the restraints holding him to the island but he was not yet freed.  He could feel it.  I was picturing Yoda as the Jedi were killed off.  There was a disturbance in the force!   :o

Exactly.  Like Spidey-Sense or whatever...

But it begs the question of why couldn't he sense that Desmond isn't dead yet?   He seemed to just take Sayid's word for it, although a bit suspiciously.  Maybe he can only sense the death of Candidates...
Title: Re: How did Flocke know...
Post by: KoKoNut on May 07, 2010, 12:49:01 PM
I got the feeling also that he could sense that some of them had died but not all.  Like there was a loosening of the restraints holding him to the island but he was not yet freed.  He could feel it.  I was picturing Yoda as the Jedi were killed off.  There was a disturbance in the force!   :o

Exactly.  Like Spidey-Sense or whatever...

But it begs the question of why couldn't he sense that Desmond isn't dead yet?   He seemed to just take Sayid's word for it, although a bit suspiciously.  Maybe he can only sense the death of Candidates...

I was wondering the same thing. When Locke asked Sayid if Desmond was dead, I felt very apprehensive because I thought, somehow HE WILL KNOW that Sayid is lying. But I think you're right on the money Madame P.  At this point, he is only aware of the candidates...or to push it one step forward mayube he can only sense THE ONE.
Title: Re: How did Flocke know...
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 07, 2010, 12:51:24 PM
I got the feeling also that he could sense that some of them had died but not all.  Like there was a loosening of the restraints holding him to the island but he was not yet freed.  He could feel it.  I was picturing Yoda as the Jedi were killed off.  There was a disturbance in the force!   :o

Exactly.  Like Spidey-Sense or whatever...

But it begs the question of why couldn't he sense that Desmond isn't dead yet?   He seemed to just take Sayid's word for it, although a bit suspiciously.  Maybe he can only sense the death of Candidates...

I was wondering the same thing. When Locke asked Sayid if Desmond was dead, I felt very apprehensive because I thought, somehow HE WILL KNOW that Sayid is lying. But I think you're right on the money Madame P.  At this point, he is only aware of the candidates...or to push it one step forward mayube he can only sense THE ONE.

Very true. I've maintained that MiB can't leave until all the candidates are dead, but I guess he may be able to snuff out existance if all the candidates are either crossed out or dead.
Title: Re: How did Flocke know...
Post by: KoKoNut on May 07, 2010, 12:56:20 PM
Please refresh my memory. Didn't Jack say that Flocke could not kill them? (candidates?)  I mean I know Flocke is setting things up so that the outcome is supposed to lead to fatalaties, (where is spellcheck dammit!!!). But the end of last week's scene...it's like he was going to "finish the job" and he had his rifle at the ready. But he can't shoot them for sobbing out loud? Can he go Smokey on them? But can he directly kill the candidates? Yeah. I'm babbling now. Nothing else new with me.  ::)  That's Koko. Full of speculation and positively no answers.
Title: Re: How did Flocke know...
Post by: Madam P on May 07, 2010, 12:59:26 PM
Maybe he's just getting really, really frustrated.   :)

Like, he knows he can't kill them, but he's gonna shoot them anyway because it'll make him feel better, dammit.
Title: Re: How did Flocke know...
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 07, 2010, 01:00:56 PM
He's still got Claire at the helm. She could probably kill the candidates and be within the rules. I think she may play a nice part in MiB's plan.
Title: Re: How did Flocke know...
Post by: KoKoNut on May 07, 2010, 01:03:25 PM
He's still got Claire at the helm. She could probably kill the candidates and be within the rules. I think she may play a nice part in MiB's plan.

And sadly, he will kill her too. I just don't see a happy ending for our Ms. Littleton. :(
Title: Re: How did Flocke know...
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 07, 2010, 01:27:14 PM
Yeah I think Claire is a goner too.
Title: Re: How did Flocke know...
Post by: lostandfree on May 07, 2010, 09:27:15 PM
Please refresh my memory. Didn't Jack say that Flocke could not kill them? (candidates?)  I mean I know Flocke is setting things up so that the outcome is supposed to lead to fatalaties, (where is spellcheck dammit!!!). But the end of last week's scene...it's like he was going to "finish the job" and he had his rifle at the ready. But he can't shoot them for sobbing out loud? Can he go Smokey on them? But can he directly kill the candidates? Yeah. I'm babbling now. Nothing else new with me.  ::)  That's Koko. Full of speculation and positively no answers.

Maybe he was going off to kill Desmond.  Maybe he did sense that Desmond was still alive.
Title: Re: How did Flocke know...
Post by: vickilynn on May 08, 2010, 09:06:41 AM
Some people are saying that MIB can't leave until all the candidates are dead, but hasn't that happened in the past - all the past candidates on the island have also died? Or is it only when Jacob AND all the candidates are dead?
Title: Re: How did Flocke know...
Post by: Madam P on May 08, 2010, 10:24:20 AM
Well, yeah, but this is really all the candidates -- the lighthouse wheel was full.  This batch of candidates is the last batch coming through in this little game between MIB and Jacob.  (I don't know that we've been told exactly why that is, but I took it to be the case because of the lighthouse wheel...  there were no blank spaces left for future names on the wheel, and all the names on it  -except for our last few- have been crossed off already.)  It seems to me as if there was some finite number of potential candidates laid out there from the beginning -- like "OK, you get 365 tries, and if all of them die without replacing you, then I get to leave, right?"
Title: Re: How did Flocke know...
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 08, 2010, 07:30:19 PM
Some people are saying that MIB can't leave until all the candidates are dead, but hasn't that happened in the past - all the past candidates on the island have also died? Or is it only when Jacob AND all the candidates are dead?

I believe that if all the candidates die with Jacob still alive then MiB is still stuck because of Jacob.
Title: Re: How did Flocke know...
Post by: Maxor127 on May 09, 2010, 02:21:21 AM
I assumed it was something as simple as he set the timer and pretty much knew when the bomb would go off.
Title: Re: How did Flocke know...
Post by: Madam P on May 09, 2010, 08:37:40 AM
I assumed it was something as simple as he set the timer and pretty much knew when the bomb would go off.

How logical of you!   :D  Come on, that's not nearly as much fun as Spidey-Sense!

That wouldn't really work, either, though, because if they'd never found the bomb, or if Sawyer had listened to Jack, it wouldn't have gone off because Flocke can't kill the candidates (at least we think that's the rule, right?)   So he'd have to know what went on in the sub or the timer would be meaningless.
Title: Re: How did Flocke know...
Post by: sobrien on May 10, 2010, 01:31:36 PM
I got the feeling also that he could sense that some of them had died but not all.  Like there was a loosening of the restraints holding him to the island but he was not yet freed.  He could feel it.  I was picturing Yoda as the Jedi were killed off.  There was a disturbance in the force!   :o



Exactly.  Like Spidey-Sense or whatever...

But it begs the question of why couldn't he sense that Desmond isn't dead yet?   He seemed to just take Sayid's word for it, although a bit suspiciously.  Maybe he can only sense the death of Candidates...

I was wondering the same thing. When Locke asked Sayid if Desmond was dead, I felt very apprehensive because I thought, somehow HE WILL KNOW that Sayid is lying. But I think you're right on the money Madame P.  At this point, he is only aware of the candidates...or to push it one step forward mayube he can only sense THE ONE.

I think Flocke did know that Sayid was lying about Des.  That contributed to Flocke allowing/encouraging him to be on the sub of death.  Sayid had turned from him, so had to go with the other "candidates."
Title: Re: How did Flocke know...
Post by: sobrien on May 10, 2010, 01:34:01 PM
I assumed it was something as simple as he set the timer and pretty much knew when the bomb would go off.

How logical of you!   :D  Come on, that's not nearly as much fun as Spidey-Sense!

That wouldn't really work, either, though, because if they'd never found the bomb, or if Sawyer had listened to Jack, it wouldn't have gone off because Flocke can't kill the candidates (at least we think that's the rule, right?)   So he'd have to know what went on in the sub or the timer would be meaningless.

Flocke allowed Kate to be shot so that Jack would look in his backpack and find the bomb so that Sawyer would pull the wires and doom them all.  I give MIB the foresight to create that chain of events - all good chess players are several moves ahead of the board.
Title: Re: How did Flocke know...
Post by: Madam P on May 10, 2010, 02:38:59 PM
That's a lot of chess moves, though, isn't it?  I mean, first Kate had to get shot (Flocke didn't shoot her himself -- if he had, I might buy into this a bit more, but he had to bank on one of the goons shooting her.)  Then Kate had to get onto the sub (easier to predict, knowing Jack and Sawyer, so OK maybe I'll go along with this one.)  But then Hurley had to not be able to find the First Aid Kit which was hanging right there on the wall behind Frank -- how could being a good chess player predict that?  And then he has to know someone will pull the wires...

I like Spidey-Sense (Smokey-Sense?) better.  (Yes, I know... mystical Spidey-Sense is as weird or weirder than being able to predict a series of events...   :D)