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Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 6 => Episode 6x09 => Topic started by: WhatThe on April 02, 2010, 04:17:00 AM

Title: Do Jacob Or MIB "Hate Technology"?
Post by: WhatThe on April 02, 2010, 04:17:00 AM
From the episode "The Man Behind The Curtain", when Ben takes Locke to see Jacob in his cabin for the first time, Ben instructs Locke to turn off his flashlight because "Jacob hates technology as much as you do" (or words to that effect). Locke does as told.

Later, when Locke is thinking Ben's BS'ing him about Jacob being in the chair, he starts to leave. When he does, he hears what he assumes is Jacob say "Help me" in almost a whisper. Locke turns around to see who said that, and turns on his flashlight when he does. Then all hell breaks loose in the cabin with everything shaking and flying around, the place going berserk. Locke runs from the cabin frightened, then views the cabin from the outside, and sees that it is actually sitting calimly just as before.

So: with us now finding out more about Jacob and finding out completely about MIB, I gotta ask: is there anything in either of these two character's stories that would make it seem like they "hate technology" to the point of them making the inside of the cabin go bonkers simply from having a flashlight aimed in their direction?
Title: Re: Do Jacob Or MIB "Hate Technology"?
Post by: lostfan777 on April 02, 2010, 09:40:04 AM
Um, now that you mention it......no.  Can't think of anything.
Title: Re: Do Jacob Or MIB "Hate Technology"?
Post by: CrashandCari on April 02, 2010, 10:03:07 AM
I totally forgot about that line.  Hmm not sure what to make of it.  We know that Ben was lying about communicating with Jacob in general so was that a lie?

But then again the Jacob we've seen living in the statue lives a simple life with no technology around him.  Granted there's no electricity in that statue but still lol.
Title: Re: Do Jacob Or MIB "Hate Technology"?
Post by: lostfan777 on April 02, 2010, 10:42:22 AM
Ben was lying about Jacob in the cabin, but the s**t still hit the fan, so this is a valid question.  He admitted he was never able to communicate with Jacob (until the scene where he killed him, aaaawkwaaaard!), so it must have been common knowledge (from Richard) that technology was a no no.  So WAS that Jacob in the cabin, or was it MIB?  Maybe they are both anti-technology because they come from a time when you had to make your own bricks instead of heading to Home Depot.  It probably won't play into the final episodes, though.  I think it will be one of those things that the writers will hope we can just overlook. 
Title: Re: Do Jacob Or MIB "Hate Technology"?
Post by: Angus on April 02, 2010, 10:53:32 AM
I personally think it was MIB in the cabin.  There was the ash around the cabin to keep whatever in the cabin.  I only see it necessary to keep one of these two on lock down- MIB.  And we saw later that ash is used to keep Smokie away.

I can think of one reason MIB would not like technology- those subsonic woofer things that the Others and now Widmore set up to keep him out.  Probably makes him weary of all technology.     
Title: Re: Do Jacob Or MIB "Hate Technology"?
Post by: Sweet Old Lady on April 02, 2010, 11:12:14 AM
If MIB can't stand technology he won't be happy on either an airplane or a sub.  He doesn't like sonic fences, so sonar isn't good for him.  The island's electromagnetic energy might be what binds him to the island.  I hope we get an explanation soon.
Title: Re: Do Jacob Or MIB "Hate Technology"?
Post by: lostfan777 on April 02, 2010, 11:48:34 AM
The ash at the cabin could have been to keep MIB in, but it seemed kind of understood that the smoke was flying at regular intervals around the island, so I think it was more likely that the ash was to keep him OUT and keep whoever was in the cabin safe.  On the other hand, if jacob was in the cabin, he didn't need to be kept safe from Smokey, so I don't know.  Again, this and the technology question may never be answered.  Would be nice, though if it was.  :-\
Title: Re: Do Jacob Or MIB "Hate Technology"?
Post by: WhatThe on April 02, 2010, 11:54:58 AM
Just a reminder:


(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5c/Jacob-ManBehindTheCurtain.jpg)


ALEX: Locke.

[Both Ben and Locke turn to see Alex]

ALEX: I hear you're gonna go see Jacob. You're gonna need this.

[She holds out a gun for Locke. Ben looks on with a look of surprise]

LOCKE: [Taking the gun] Thanks.

*********************

BEN: We're here.

[Locke shines his flashlight at Ben]

BEN: You'll wanna turn off your flashlight, John.

LOCKE: Why?

BEN: Jacob feels the same way about technology as you do.

[Locke turns the light off and they leave their bags outside. Ben reaches the door and lights a lantern]

BEN: Once I open this door, there's no turning back. You sure this is what you want?

[Locke steps forward and looks at him resolutely]

BEN: So be it. [To the door] Jacob? I'm here with John Locke. We're coming in now.

[Inside Locke looks around the room. Jars stand by the window, a painting of a dog can be seen by the wall. Ben moves over to an empty chair]

BEN: Jacob. This is John. Aren't you going to say hello, John?

LOCKE: What?

BEN: [Looks to the chair] I told you he wouldn't.

LOCKE: Who—what are you talking about?

BEN: You can't see him?

LOCKE: See who?

BEN: Jacob! He's sitting right here, in this chair! [Looks at the chair] Yes, I know, but he insisted.

LOCKE: What is this?

BEN: You wanted the secrets of the Island? Well, here they are. This is the man who can answer every single.... [Stops, pauses while looking at the chair] I am not. He made me bring him here—do you think that that was my—sorry, may I finish?

LOCKE: You're crazy.

BEN: Excuse me?

LOCKE: You don't know anything about the Island, do ya. You just...made it all up.

BEN: [Looks at the chair] Jacob, please, I can't hear him if you're gonna talk over what he's saying—

LOCKE: Stop. Stop. Shut up! You're putting on a show for me? Or do you...do you really think there's someone there?

BEN: I know there's someone there!

LOCKE: You don't know anything.

BEN: I'm sorry you feel that way, John. And I'm sorry that you're too limited to see.

LOCKE: You're pathetic.

[As Locke leaves he hears a voice]

VOICE: Help me.

[Locke turns]

LOCKE: What did you just say?

BEN: I—I didn't say anything.

LOCKE: Oh yes you did. I heard you, [raises the flash-light] you said...

[Suddenly the room takes on a life of its own. Chairs rock, glass smashes, the lantern catches fire and windows shatter]

BEN: [To the chair] That's enough, you've had your fun!

[Ben is thrown back against the wall. For a brief moment, a figure is seen in the chair, followed by a closeup of an eye. Locke runs out of the cabin. Ben walks, shaken, from the cabin a moment later. Pause]

LOCKE: What was that?

BEN: That was Jacob.

****************************

I'm wondering: if Ben could not even see Jacob, nonetheless hear him, why didn't Ben freak out when the cabin started going nuts? Instead, he went back to the chair and started talking to "Jacob", even telling him to stop and that "you've had your fun", like he had experienced this before.
Title: Re: Do Jacob Or MIB "Hate Technology"?
Post by: lostfan777 on April 02, 2010, 12:03:58 PM
Exactly my point.  The producers may have had the ending of the story in mind from the beginning (or so they say), but when they had no idea how long it would run, they introduced some plot lines that now do not make sense.  I don't see how they could explain this one and I don't think they are even going to bring it up again.  First Ben acts like he can see and hear Jacob and he doesn't act surprised or scared when chaos ensues, then he later admits (face to face with Jacob himself) that they have never met.  Chalk it up to incontinuity.
Title: Re: Do Jacob Or MIB "Hate Technology"?
Post by: Abaddons Key on April 02, 2010, 12:28:11 PM
The ash at the cabin could have been to keep MIB in, but it seemed kind of understood that the smoke was flying at regular intervals around the island, so I think it was more likely that the ash was to keep him OUT and keep whoever was in the cabin safe.  On the other hand, if jacob was in the cabin, he didn't need to be kept safe from Smokey, so I don't know.  Again, this and the technology question may never be answered.  Would be nice, though if it was.  :-\

Mayhaps a third undefined entity we have yet to learn about?? 


edit: maybe he has been defined... maybe thats who/what christian shephard is? 
Title: Re: Do Jacob Or MIB "Hate Technology"?
Post by: WhatThe on April 02, 2010, 12:43:17 PM
Exactly my point.  The producers may have had the ending of the story in mind from the beginning (or so they say), but when they had no idea how long it would run, they introduced some plot lines that now do not make sense.  I don't see how they could explain this one and I don't think they are even going to bring it up again.  First Ben acts like he can see and hear Jacob and he doesn't act surprised or scared when chaos ensues, then he later admits (face to face with Jacob himself) that they have never met.  Chalk it up to incontinuity.

I'm hoping that's not the case, but I find myself leaning in your direction on some things unfortunately.
Title: Re: Do Jacob Or MIB "Hate Technology"?
Post by: lostfan777 on April 02, 2010, 12:52:59 PM
Abaddons Key, you may have a point there, there are numerous debates about whether MIB was Christian or if it was Jacob instead or both.  Or maybe he was just himself and neither of them.  Certainly if MIB can't cross water as Smokey and can't get off the island, he couldn't have appeared to Michael on the freighter or Jack at the hospital.  So, maybe there is hope for the whole cabin explanation.  While I doubt they'll be introducing someone knew as the inhabitant, if they unveil Christian as having been his own spirit separate from the others, that may open the door for a quick explanation.
Title: Re: Do Jacob Or MIB "Hate Technology"?
Post by: WhatThe on April 02, 2010, 12:57:24 PM
Abaddons Key, you may have a point there, there are numerous debates about whether MIB was Christian or if it was Jacob instead or both.  Or maybe he was just himself and neither of them.  Certainly if MIB can't cross water as Smokey and can't get off the island, he couldn't have appeared to Michael on the freighter or Jack at the hospital.  So, maybe there is hope for the whole cabin explanation.  While I doubt they'll be introducing someone knew as the inhabitant, if they unveil Christian as having been his own spirit separate from the others, that may open the door for a quick explanation.

We'd still have to know why Christian would "hate technology", though lol.
Title: Re: Do Jacob Or MIB "Hate Technology"?
Post by: lostfan777 on April 02, 2010, 01:52:09 PM
Abaddons Key, you may have a point there, there are numerous debates about whether MIB was Christian or if it was Jacob instead or both.  Or maybe he was just himself and neither of them.  Certainly if MIB can't cross water as Smokey and can't get off the island, he couldn't have appeared to Michael on the freighter or Jack at the hospital.  So, maybe there is hope for the whole cabin explanation.  While I doubt they'll be introducing someone knew as the inhabitant, if they unveil Christian as having been his own spirit separate from the others, that may open the door for a quick explanation.

We'd still have to know why Christian would "hate technology", though lol.

What's the guy's name on first?  I don't know.  THIRD BASE!   ???
Title: Re: Do Jacob Or MIB "Hate Technology"?
Post by: Abaddons Key on April 02, 2010, 02:04:44 PM
Abaddons Key, you may have a point there, there are numerous debates about whether MIB was Christian or if it was Jacob instead or both.  Or maybe he was just himself and neither of them.  Certainly if MIB can't cross water as Smokey and can't get off the island, he couldn't have appeared to Michael on the freighter or Jack at the hospital.  So, maybe there is hope for the whole cabin explanation.  While I doubt they'll be introducing someone knew as the inhabitant, if they unveil Christian as having been his own spirit separate from the others, that may open the door for a quick explanation.

We'd still have to know why Christian would "hate technology", though lol.
He would hate it because just like unlocke... he really isn't christian, only his physical form.  The being/entity that may exist as Christian is the one that hates technology.  Who that would be exactly I couldn't begin to guess.  

The more I think about how Dharma refers to smokey as Cerberus really has me thinking that there is a third entity.  This is also supported by Locke when he claims "I've looked into the eye of this island. And what I saw was beautiful."  It wasn't Jacob he saw, Jacob said as much when he said to Richard why should I get involved.  It wasn't smokey cause he's black and disturbing to look upon,  so who/what was it the John actually saw?

quick edit:  Maybe there is more to Ricardo then we know and have been shown to this point.  That certainly would explain how he gets around the island so swiftly.  I could be way off here though.
Title: Re: Do Jacob Or MIB "Hate Technology"?
Post by: hackgrid on April 02, 2010, 05:09:27 PM
quick edit:  Maybe there is more to Ricardo then we know and have been shown to this point.  That certainly would explain how he gets around the island so swiftly.  I could be way off here though.

Good point. Jacob and MIB seem to live forever, maybe Jacob had to change Richard into one of them allowing him to live eternally.
Title: Re: Do Jacob Or MIB "Hate Technology"?
Post by: james_sawyer on April 02, 2010, 08:04:27 PM
From the episode "The Man Behind The Curtain", when Ben takes Locke to see Jacob in his cabin for the first time, Ben instructs Locke to turn off his flashlight because "Jacob hates technology as much as you do" (or words to that effect). Locke does as told.

Later, when Locke is thinking Ben's BS'ing him about Jacob being in the chair, he starts to leave. When he does, he hears what he assumes is Jacob say "Help me" in almost a whisper. Locke turns around to see who said that, and turns on his flashlight when he does. Then all hell breaks loose in the cabin with everything shaking and flying around, the place going berserk. Locke runs from the cabin frightened, then views the cabin from the outside, and sees that it is actually sitting calimly just as before.

So: with us now finding out more about Jacob and finding out completely about MIB, I gotta ask: is there anything in either of these two character's stories that would make it seem like they "hate technology" to the point of them making the inside of the cabin go bonkers simply from having a flashlight aimed in their direction?

did think  about this when we first saw jacob visiting losties because for a guy who living for hundred of years  like a hermit on the island  he is pretty updated about the real world ...like how he knows to use that machine to give  the apollo bar to jack ....or the way he dresses and where is he getting money to pay for kate's stolen item ....if he was confined to the island he would be ignorant but .....he is in-sync with real world .....he has to be so that he can  go around in real world to meet his candidates ...so i dont think he would be freaking out just becos of torch light
Title: Re: Do Jacob Or MIB "Hate Technology"?
Post by: zeekloveslost on April 02, 2010, 09:24:19 PM
another explaination is that whatever went nut in the cabin had nothing to do with the flashlight/torch. it just waiting to whisper to Locke and then go nuts.  Ben's reaction is still mysterious to me, unless he's seen that type of reaction before.

Ben may have mentioned the light thing just to keep it spooky in there to intimidate Locke. I don't think he really thought Locke would be able to hear/see/sense whatever was there.
Title: Re: Do Jacob Or MIB "Hate Technology"?
Post by: WhatThe on April 03, 2010, 03:52:36 AM
did think  about this when we first saw jacob visiting losties because for a guy who living for hundred of years  like a hermit on the island  he is pretty updated about the real world ...like how he knows to use that machine to give  the apollo bar to jack ....or the way he dresses and where is he getting money to pay for kate's stolen item ....if he was confined to the island he would be ignorant but .....he is in-sync with real world .....he has to be so that he can  go around in real world to meet his candidates ...so i dont think he would be freaking out just becos of torch light

Good point. If it IS either Jacob or MIB that was in the cabin at that time, it would seemingly have to have been MIB, then. From what we can tell he has never left the island (unlike Jacob), so he may not be all that up on the technology of the last few centuries. Then again, Dharma brought quite a bit of technology with them, so you'd think he was at least familiar with whatever technology was on the island. But then again (lol), maybe it's the Dharma technology that has made MIB/Smokie so angry and now he hates ALL technology?
Title: Re: Do Jacob Or MIB "Hate Technology"?
Post by: LostinLock on April 03, 2010, 09:31:17 AM
If MIB can't stand technology he won't be happy on either an airplane or a sub.  He doesn't like sonic fences, so sonar isn't good for him.  The island's electromagnetic energy might be what binds him to the island.  I hope we get an explanation soon.

Without reading through all I think you summed it up.  But the funny thing is we do not know how Jacob got around to see other folks off the island.  Does he just show up?  I was giving the electromagnetic pockets a thought as I think they hold significance to what is going to happen in the episodes to come for MIB.  Widmore's team is hellbent on this subject enough to get Jin over to explain.

And I think we do know the answer if you think about this because one when Dr. Chang was having the Orchid built, they were drilling and came dangerously close to the donkey wheel.  It caused the nose bleed and the drill was ruined.  So we also know that thirty years later the same site held a chamber to help transport items and we know that Ben destroyed that chamber in order to get to the donkey wheel.

Which is all very interesting because we know Widmore was watching that area in Tunisia, knowing it was an outlet from the island.  So the reality is that if they know where all of these pockets are they can stop folks from leaving through them.  The trouble is that does MIB know about these pockets/loopholes?  Something tells me that MIB is so focused on himself that he misses the forest for the trees.

So back to the question I don't think that Ben's original comment holds much creedence since he couldn't speak to Jacob.  Second he knew that whatever was in there did not like the light per se.  So at the end of the day you could say they do not like the modern torches.  But to "hate" technology.  I think the sonar fences prevent Smokey from entering for whatever physicaly reasons.  Additionally it keeps out other people that the do not want to enter that area. 

Widmore also was very involved with Dharma, if this is n't proving it then I am not sure what else will cause he sure nows what needs to be done to get things where he wantes them.  now with that said if he believes that MIB was a compilation of stories and camp fire tales, well is he really there for a war with MIB?