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Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 6 => Episode 6x13 => Topic started by: RM on May 05, 2010, 03:19:22 AM

Title: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: RM on May 05, 2010, 03:19:22 AM
They'll never answer this, but . . .

What did Kate ever do to get crossed out as a candidate?  (What did anyone do to get crossed out, for that matter?)

Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: jamesl on May 05, 2010, 03:30:38 AM
kidnapped little Ben and gave him to Richard to be saved

Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: YouAllEverybody on May 05, 2010, 03:32:01 AM
Short answer, her character became useless to the writers or so it seems. They wrote in that Jack would be "all balls" for the Island and Sawyer would get involved with Juliette, after that her character was written to pine over the fact that she "stole" Aaron away from Claire. Put a bullet in her Turkish, she's through.
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: opgelost on May 05, 2010, 06:02:35 AM
Kate was not crossed out in the lighthouse. She still is needed.
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: james_sawyer on May 05, 2010, 06:12:37 AM
i think this will be answered ,  although seriously don't care about her ..hopefully she won't turn out 2b some secret candidate or sumthing  :-\
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: nomteticus on May 05, 2010, 08:24:56 AM
I think she may well be the secret candidate. If MIB kills everybody except for her (since she was crossed out on his cave wall and he doesn't know about the Lighthouse), that may be where things are going.
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: WhatThe on May 05, 2010, 10:23:21 AM
I think she flunked the math portion of the candidate test...
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: blueeyed2200 on May 05, 2010, 10:34:21 AM
Who's name was crossed out in the cave??  When Locke was in the cave showing Sawyer the names in the ceiling of the cave, he crossed out a name?  Was it Kate's?  I don't remember . . .
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: BobBX542 on May 05, 2010, 10:43:05 AM
Who's name was crossed out in the cave??  When Locke was in the cave showing Sawyer the names in the ceiling of the cave, he crossed out a name?  Was it Kate's?  I don't remember . . .

MiB in Locke's body crossed out Locke's name. As for Kate's name in the cave, there was no screen cap or anything that actually showed her name clearly, so it's hard to argue the point that her name wasn't there, when we were just told by Sawyer that her name was there, and crossed out.

I think that Kate is off the cantidate list because her intentions are to get Claire, take her off the island to her baby. I think the big thing about being the cantidate is that you have to be willing to stay on the island, for the island's sake, which is why I'm 99.999999999999% positive that Jack is going to be the new Jacob.
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: lostfan777 on May 05, 2010, 12:10:50 PM
I think that Kate is off the cantidate list because her intentions are to get Claire, take her off the island to her baby. I think the big thing about being the cantidate is that you have to be willing to stay on the island, for the island's sake, which is why I'm 99.999999999999% positive that Jack is going to be the new Jacob.

I agree, but the real reason might be that she accumulated too many viewers wishing she would just die already!   ;D
Seriously, though, unless they are purposefully lying to us to throw us off, it looks like it will be Jack, like Sayid said.  My opinion, Desmond would make a cooler Jacob.  Jack should be his Richard, now that he's willing to stay. 
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 05, 2010, 12:27:53 PM
Short answer, her character became useless to the writers or so it seems. They wrote in that Jack would be "all balls" for the Island and Sawyer would get involved with Juliette, after that her character was written to pine over the fact that she "stole" Aaron away from Claire. Put a bullet in her Turkish, she's through.

HAHA. Exactly. They have the off island timeline for love, which is the only time when I think Kate was half relevant. LOVE TRIANGLE! When they left that angle behind there was really nothing left for her to do. No longer a Candidate they say. She may have a decent part in the rest of the story, but I just don't see it happeneing. Therest of the main plot is going to revolve around Jack trying to defeat MiB, and Desmond helping. Maybe Sawyer will be a hardass a bit. Ben will probably screw up that new foundtrust we have in him. The main arc of the story is going to deal with Jack and Desmond though I feel. See you in another life brotha.
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: sillysab on May 05, 2010, 01:09:03 PM
no I think there is a REAL reason... in the alt time-line or as I call it the "light time-line" Kate is still the "same." she's still arrested, still questionable if she committed the murder or not. most of the other candidates seemed to have done a 180 hence there is still a chance for them in the island or "dark time-line."
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: zeekloveslost on May 05, 2010, 02:43:52 PM
I think she may well be the secret candidate. If MIB kills everybody except for her (since she was crossed out on his cave wall and he doesn't know about the Lighthouse), that may be where things are going.

I actually agree with this one.  We were clearly shown that her name was not crossed off int he lighthouse and we've been reminded that it was crossed off in the cave. So MIB and Jacob had different information and this could be a key plot device.  MIB may accomplish his goal by killing everyone he thought he had to kill - but he may leave alive the one person who was the true target he never knew about.
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: CaseyMac on May 05, 2010, 03:04:38 PM
Short answer, her character became useless to the writers or so it seems. They wrote in that Jack would be "all balls" for the Island and Sawyer would get involved with Juliette, after that her character was written to pine over the fact that she "stole" Aaron away from Claire. Put a bullet in her Turkish, she's through.

I don't know if she's that useless. Plus, she was crossed off in the cave, but not the Lighthouse...if that even means anything. Finally, it will be kind of hard to put a bullet in her when you've got "Replica" written on the side of your gun, and I've got "Desert Eagle .50" written on the side of mine. ;)
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 05, 2010, 03:20:38 PM
And stop that dog from dribblin' on my seats
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: BobBX542 on May 05, 2010, 03:40:15 PM
no I think there is a REAL reason... in the alt time-line or as I call it the "light time-line" Kate is still the "same." she's still arrested, still questionable if she committed the murder or not. most of the other candidates seemed to have done a 180 hence there is still a chance for them in the island or "dark time-line."

Well, I almost hate to agree with anything that puts Kate in a positive light, but in the On-island time line she DID commit the murder, and admitted to it to at least one person. In the Off-island Timeline she has been saying that she was accussed of murder, so you might be right. She probably did do the 180.
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 05, 2010, 03:42:56 PM
Do you have your jig ready for when Kate does finally shuffle loose from the mortal coil?
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: BobBX542 on May 05, 2010, 03:55:10 PM
Do you have your jig ready for when Kate does finally shuffle loose from the mortal coil?

Oh absolutely. I have something special planned for that, because she's been under my skin since S1.
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: NoraCharles on May 05, 2010, 04:54:41 PM
I don't know...I'm not a fan of the secret Kate candidate theory because I just don't think the producers would do that. Seems like a crappy trick.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't think there will be anymore HUGE twists like that. I think we have all the pieces and information and the rest is just connecting the dots. The producers made it clear in that episode through Sawyer that her name is indeed crossed out.

But for the life of me, I can't seem to figure out what it is she may have done to be crossed out. Others have killed, others have left the island and come back. I'm stumped. 
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 05, 2010, 05:01:51 PM
If she did in fact lose her candidacy, it may be because she can't sit still on a decision, or a location. The new Jacob needs to be content in the same place for a very long time.
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: Chuckie on May 05, 2010, 05:05:49 PM
I think she flunked the math portion of the candidate test...

I assumed she failed Others 101. (I hear the Latin portion is brutal)
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: Madam P on May 07, 2010, 06:35:08 PM

We were clearly shown that her name was not crossed off in the lighthouse and we've been reminded that it was crossed off in the cave.

See, it's stuff like this that drives me straight up a wall.  I hate inconsistencies that have no meaning, so it makes me want to say there must be some reason for this, so maybe I'm on board with the "Kate is a secret candidate" thing. 

But, as far as we were "clearly" shown that her name wasn't crossed off in the lighthouse... well, yes, WE were, because we're rabid about stuff like that and scrutinize screencaps and stuff.  But would a more casual viewer know that?  I know I mentioned it to some people and they just gave me blank looks and said "How did you notice that?"  (And I said "I didn't, ericd did." LOL.)  So much as I hate to say it, it could be just a technical boo-boo about the lighthouse name.  (Ugh, that tastes bad in my mouth just to say it...)
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: BobBX542 on May 07, 2010, 07:00:26 PM

We were clearly shown that her name was not crossed off in the lighthouse and we've been reminded that it was crossed off in the cave.

See, it's stuff like this that drives me straight up a wall.  I hate inconsistencies that have no meaning, so it makes me want to say there must be some reason for this, so maybe I'm on board with the "Kate is a secret candidate" thing. 

But, as far as we were "clearly" shown that her name wasn't crossed off in the lighthouse... well, yes, WE were, because we're rabid about stuff like that and scrutinize screencaps and stuff.  But would a more casual viewer know that?  I know I mentioned it to some people and they just gave me blank looks and said "How did you notice that?"  (And I said "I didn't, ericd did." LOL.)  So much as I hate to say it, it could be just a technical boo-boo about the lighthouse name.  (Ugh, that tastes bad in my mouth just to say it...)

You didn't notice?? REALLY?!?! I doubt your fan-dom.
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: Madam P on May 07, 2010, 07:28:54 PM
Nope.  Totally didn't see it until here.  But then again, I also missed the whole Jack/Claire/musicbox mirror thing in this eppy, too, so... I'm pretty lame.  That's why I have to come here all the time.  LOL.
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: BobBX542 on May 07, 2010, 08:37:06 PM
Nope.  Totally didn't see it until here.  But then again, I also missed the whole Jack/Claire/musicbox mirror thing in this eppy, too, so... I'm pretty lame.  That's why I have to come here all the time.  LOL.

I'm just kidding, you know that.
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: LostinLock on May 07, 2010, 08:48:46 PM
Kate failed her candidacy because she never evolved she remained the same.  Forget about the entire Aaron thing but that could have also harmed her.
Just get rid of her...but you know ... ::) hmmm Smokey may have some time for her ;D
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: CaseyMac on May 07, 2010, 08:51:01 PM
I still believe that Kate didn't necessarily fail. Her name was not crossed out in the Lighthouse.
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: LostinLock on May 07, 2010, 08:56:35 PM
yeah she did i know you like her but she failed it was the commercials she sold out ;)
Really I think she did fail at the fact she couldn't follow what was needed of her.  Jacob needed someone to follow not be a cowboy and run off doing their own thing
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: CaseyMac on May 07, 2010, 08:58:23 PM
So, you just ignore the fact her name was one of the few not crossed out in the lighthouse? Or explain that in a different way?
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: LouE68 on May 07, 2010, 09:01:11 PM
It was simply said earlier, she wanted off island...only to come back to save Claire to get to Aaron...she's not dedicated on the island like Jack...but that's ok she can be dedicated to me off island...*growl* ;D
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: LostinLock on May 07, 2010, 09:10:16 PM
So, you just ignore the fact her name was one of the few not crossed out in the lighthouse? Or explain that in a different way?
yep.... sorry Casey you know I don't care for this character.  I know you are saying though and sometimes I wonder how inconsistant this show is
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: CaseyMac on May 07, 2010, 11:58:36 PM
So, you just ignore the fact her name was one of the few not crossed out in the lighthouse? Or explain that in a different way?
yep.... sorry Casey you know I don't care for this character.  I know you are saying though and sometimes I wonder how inconsistant this show is

I hear ya. I've done own fair share of continuity error ignoring. (Sayid's Iranian passport, Claire's sonogram *cough*) I just wasn't sure if you were taking that as an error, or if you just had an explanation for it like Jacob didn't have time to get to the Lighthouse to cross it off.
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: LostinLock on May 08, 2010, 12:48:57 PM
So, you just ignore the fact her name was one of the few not crossed out in the lighthouse? Or explain that in a different way?
yep.... sorry Casey you know I don't care for this character.  I know you are saying though and sometimes I wonder how inconsistant this show is

I hear ya. I've done own fair share of continuity error ignoring. (Sayid's Iranian passport, Claire's sonogram *cough*) I just wasn't sure if you were taking that as an error, or if you just had an explanation for it like Jacob didn't have time to get to the Lighthouse to cross it off.
yeah I think Jacob was a bit behind I like and thanks for explaining and understanding.  I could type a list of WTF's on this series but really not worth my time ;D ;)
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: Creflo on May 08, 2010, 06:02:35 PM
Let's ask Mikhail

MIKHAIL: Because you are not on the list
KATE: What list?
MIKHAIL: The man who brought me here, who brought all of my people here, he is a magnificent man
KATE: If Benís so magnificent, then why did he need one of us to save him?
MIKHAIL: Ben? Ben is not. I will try to make this as simple as I can. You are not on the list because you are flawed. Because you are angry, and weak, and frightened.

Par Avion
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: LostinLock on May 08, 2010, 06:36:44 PM
Let's ask Mikhail

MIKHAIL: Because you are not on the list
KATE: What list?
MIKHAIL: The man who brought me here, who brought all of my people here, he is a magnificent man
KATE: If Benís so magnificent, then why did he need one of us to save him?
MIKHAIL: Ben? Ben is not. I will try to make this as simple as I can. You are not on the list because you are flawed. Because you are angry, and weak, and frightened.

Par Avion

Well, good one there Creflo!  I like the research and now we can put this one down.  She is flawed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: RM on May 09, 2010, 05:40:45 AM
Yeah, I guess my original question is when do people get crossed off?

At some point, Jacob gives up on them.  But they all start out as possible candidates ... and they're already flawed before they even come to the Island, right?  (Or are they pure at the moment Jacob comes to visit them at some crucial moment and then they subsequently go wrong?)

But once they get the Island, "their past doesn't matter", right?  So if they're still viable candidates when they get to the Island, then they get crossed off because of their actions on the Island.  Their behavior in the new environment doesn't change and at some point after they've come to the IslandJacob crosses them off.

For Kate, I can go with its being taking Aaron "for her own sake" rather than for Aaron's sake, which the show has made a point of saying.

Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: Madam P on May 09, 2010, 08:47:18 AM
Thanks, Creflo, good catch.

Not only is she flawed, but she is angry and weak and frightened.  I can go along with that.  She definitely exhibited those flaws on-island.

Thing is, I can't see how Jacob wouldn't have seen Jack's on-island flaws as well (goodness knows we here at Sledgeweb have seen them easily enough.)  Yet it really seems like Jack is heading towards being "the" one...
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: LostinLock on May 09, 2010, 12:17:21 PM
Yeah, I guess my original question is when do people get crossed off?

At some point, Jacob gives up on them.  But they all start out as possible candidates ... and they're already flawed before they even come to the Island, right?  (Or are they pure at the moment Jacob comes to visit them at some crucial moment and then they subsequently go wrong?)

But once they get the Island, "their past doesn't matter", right?  So if they're still viable candidates when they get to the Island, then they get crossed off because of their actions on the Island.  Their behavior in the new environment doesn't change and at some point after they've come to the IslandJacob crosses them off.

For Kate, I can go with its being taking Aaron "for her own sake" rather than for Aaron's sake, which the show has made a point of saying.


I understand wanting closure but it is moot Jacob is dead and the candidates are slowly dying so when the end comes we will finally get an idea of what the idea was.
Wow say that five times
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: CaseyMac on May 10, 2010, 05:36:50 PM
Nice find, Creflo...the only problem with that explaination is that it would eliminate EVERYONE. So, as great as Mikhail is, I don't think he is the end-all-be-all for the answer to this.

Plus, if it is Kate, she would always just be a phone call away, just check out this old commercial...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ6hIEqKR7A

Yes it's real.
Title: Re: How did Kate fail her candidacy?
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 10, 2010, 05:46:35 PM
Yeah, I guess my original question is when do people get crossed off?

At some point, Jacob gives up on them.  But they all start out as possible candidates ... and they're already flawed before they even come to the Island, right?  (Or are they pure at the moment Jacob comes to visit them at some crucial moment and then they subsequently go wrong?)

But once they get the Island, "their past doesn't matter", right?  So if they're still viable candidates when they get to the Island, then they get crossed off because of their actions on the Island.  Their behavior in the new environment doesn't change and at some point after they've come to the IslandJacob crosses them off.

For Kate, I can go with its being taking Aaron "for her own sake" rather than for Aaron's sake, which the show has made a point of saying.



Yeah I really think it has to do with her being very unsure regarding her decisions. She has never really showed much conviction at all with anything she does. Sawyer/Jack, Raising Aaron/ Comingback to get Clair to raise him. She is just a big pile of "I don't know maybe." The new Jacob cannot be that way. They need to make a decision and stick to it.