Jacob dead?...Maybe not

[BrianIsLost2]

I have never started a thread before, so be kind.  And if I’m duplicating a thread, I’m sorry and just combine this into the other tread for me.

So, Black Shirt was able to take the form of Locke because Locke was dead, and Black Shirt made sure that would be the case by telling Richard to tell Locke he had to die.  Now, we also know that Christian was dead when he came to the island and then “came back to life” or whatever.

Which makes me think that Jacob and Black Shirt can only take another form if there is a body that came to the island already dead.  In fact, I would go as far to say that the Christian we see walking around the island in 2007 is Jacob in a new form, much like the way Locke is now Black Shirt. 

I think that Jacob new that Black Shirt would find a loop hole and kill him in the way that he did so Jacob took a preemptive step and took Christian’s form back when 815 crashed.  Meaning, the Jacob that we saw die is not really Jacob. After all, the role that Christian has played on the island is very similar to the role that we saw Jacob play when he visited the losties off island.  So when Jacob revived Locke after his fall and apologized to him (right?) he was doing so because he knew what Locke would eventually be used for.

Jacob is there to "save us all"  right?

…Just a thought

[sidluckyman]

I have a theory along the same lines except with a few differences.

Jacob has been masquerading as Richard in anticipation Black Shirt finding his loop hole. Thus his never aging is not a gift from Jacob but is instead Jacob not aging himself. The Jacob that dies is simply a proxy that Richard/Jacob recruited and changed his identity in the same way (on short notice too). That is why no one (of the others) ever knowingly sees Jacob because it is Richard.

My other reason for this theory revolves around Ilana and the "What lies in the shadow of the statue?" question. More than a philosophical question I see it as a code phrase/password so that she may identify the real Jacob when the correct response is returned. If memory serves, she asked Locke the same question at the beach. Which makes a lot of sense knowing there was a dead Locke in the box. She was not surprised by the second Locke and thought he might be the identity stealing Jacob and posed the same question.

[lostlady]

I have a theory along the same lines except with a few differences.

Jacob has been masquerading as Richard in anticipation Black Shirt finding his loop hole. Thus his never aging is not a gift from Jacob but is instead Jacob not aging himself. The Jacob that dies is simply a proxy that Richard/Jacob recruited and changed his identity in the same way (on short notice too). That is why no one (of the others) ever knowingly sees Jacob because it is Richard.

My other reason for this theory revolves around Ilana and the "What lies in the shadow of the statue?" question. More than a philosophical question I see it as a code phrase/password so that she may identify the real Jacob when the correct response is returned. If memory serves, she asked Locke the same question at the beach. Which makes a lot of sense knowing there was a dead Locke in the box. She was not surprised by the second Locke and thought he might be the identity stealing Jacob and posed the same question.

I like this!!!

[nomteticus]

Well, Christian could also be impersonated by Mr. Black Shirt, and maybe Jacob was never in that cabin.
Yet how can he be in both bodies at the same time? Since Christian appears to Sun when faux-Locke is on his way to the cabin, that's a bit strange. But he is a god, after all...

[BobBX542]

I have a theory along the same lines except with a few differences.

Jacob has been masquerading as Richard in anticipation Black Shirt finding his loop hole. Thus his never aging is not a gift from Jacob but is instead Jacob not aging himself. The Jacob that dies is simply a proxy that Richard/Jacob recruited and changed his identity in the same way (on short notice too). That is why no one (of the others) ever knowingly sees Jacob because it is Richard.

My other reason for this theory revolves around Ilana and the "What lies in the shadow of the statue?" question. More than a philosophical question I see it as a code phrase/password so that she may identify the real Jacob when the correct response is returned. If memory serves, she asked Locke the same question at the beach. Which makes a lot of sense knowing there was a dead Locke in the box. She was not surprised by the second Locke and thought he might be the identity stealing Jacob and posed the same question.

Well, where did this other proxy come from?? And , Ilana didn't ask Locke the question, she asked Frank. She never got the chance to talk to Locke really because the night after he explained himself about remembering his death, him and Ben took off in the outrigger.

[BrianIsLost2]

Well, Christian could also be impersonated by Mr. Black Shirt, and maybe Jacob was never in that cabin.
Yet how can he be in both bodies at the same time? Since Christian appears to Sun when faux-Locke is on his way to the cabin, that's a bit strange. But he is a god, after all...

About an hour after I made this thread I started thinking along these lines too.  I do still think that Jacob is taking someone else's form right now as a preemptive strike against Black Shirt.

[Staggerlee]

Interesting idea nonetheless...

A strategy you are saying he is employing...not familiar with the game, but is there a parallel to be drawn from backgammon? Other than the fact that strategy is involved?
regardless, I do like it, it show the two players maneuvering about their "board".

[bastor]

But he is a god, after all...

We actually have nothing solid to back that up...

[LostinLock]

I have a theory along the same lines except with a few differences.

Jacob has been masquerading as Richard in anticipation Black Shirt finding his loop hole. Thus his never aging is not a gift from Jacob but is instead Jacob not aging himself. The Jacob that dies is simply a proxy that Richard/Jacob recruited and changed his identity in the same way (on short notice too). That is why no one (of the others) ever knowingly sees Jacob because it is Richard.

My other reason for this theory revolves around Ilana and the "What lies in the shadow of the statue?" question. More than a philosophical question I see it as a code phrase/password so that she may identify the real Jacob when the correct response is returned. If memory serves, she asked Locke the same question at the beach. Which makes a lot of sense knowing there was a dead Locke in the box. She was not surprised by the second Locke and thought he might be the identity stealing Jacob and posed the same question.

Well, where did this other proxy come from?? And , Ilana didn't ask Locke the question, she asked Frank. She never got the chance to talk to Locke really because the night after he explained himself about remembering his death, him and Ben took off in the outrigger.

Ilana spoke to Locke - they were standing on the beach during daylight and he told her that was the best mango he ever had.  You know that always annoyed me when he said that but makes sense now.  Whomever is in Locke's body had not eaten food in a long time.

I know she spoke to him about something but not sure what and now it makes sense as to why they wanted Locke to stick around.  Do you think Ben is truly clueless then after all

[BobBX542]

Ilana spoke to Locke - they were standing on the beach during daylight and he told her that was the best mango he ever had.  You know that always annoyed me when he said that but makes sense now.  Whomever is in Locke's body had not eaten food in a long time.

I know she spoke to him about something but not sure what and now it makes sense as to why they wanted Locke to stick around.  Do you think Ben is truly clueless then after all

I think that for the first time in a while, yeah, Ben has no idea what is happening.

[LostinLock]

Ilana spoke to Locke - they were standing on the beach during daylight and he told her that was the best mango he ever had.  You know that always annoyed me when he said that but makes sense now.  Whomever is in Locke's body had not eaten food in a long time.

I know she spoke to him about something but not sure what and now it makes sense as to why they wanted Locke to stick around.  Do you think Ben is truly clueless then after all

I think that for the first time in a while, yeah, Ben has no idea what is happening.

Well then it falls into Mrs. Hawkings plight also, which means that our Others may not be so empowered after all.

[eelpie62]

If the person stabbed by Ben wasn't actually Jacob (I do like that idea) then the stand-in had to have been pretty well briefed. To specifically reference one line in a conversation that (seemed to have) happened over 100 years ago would indicate that a stand-in either gained full memories of the person they're standing in for or that Jacob imparted a lot of knowledge to the stand in. Of all the conversations that Jacob and Black-shirt must have had that "Jacob" said "you've found your loop-hole" means that one or the other of my theories must be true.
In support of the former theory is the fact that Black-shirt-as-Locke knew exactly what real-Locke was going to say and what Richard had to say when Ram Dass gives Locke the compass.

[LostinLock]

If the person stabbed by Ben wasn't actually Jacob (I do like that idea) then the stand-in had to have been pretty well briefed. To specifically reference one line in a conversation that (seemed to have) happened over 100 years ago would indicate that a stand-in either gained full memories of the person they're standing in for or that Jacob imparted a lot of knowledge to the stand in. Of all the conversations that Jacob and Black-shirt must have had that "Jacob" said "you've found your loop-hole" means that one or the other of my theories must be true.
In support of the former theory is the fact that Black-shirt-as-Locke knew exactly what real-Locke was going to say and what Richard had to say when Ram Dass gives Locke the compass.

He died to easy unless there is something that Jacob knows and the MN2 does not know. Perhaps Jacob cannot die, but agree if there was a stand in then it knew exactly what was going on and was well briefed.

[BobBX542]

I'm in the camp that says Jacob was Jacob, and I think we might need to accept that what we saw was his death, BUT, I also think that all of our survivors have traveled back in time (again) and that Jacob will be alive and well whenever they are.

[LostinLock]

I'm in the camp that says Jacob was Jacob, and I think we might need to accept that what we saw was his death, BUT, I also think that all of our survivors have traveled back in time (again) and that Jacob will be alive and well whenever they are.

I like this taking a stance and holding to it.  Well, if he is dead then things did change and the battle lines were drawn, which provides the perfect replacement which is Jack and the Apollo bar hand off now makes sense.