Author Topic: Do you know how badly I want to kill you?  (Read 5465 times)

Offline devenezy

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Do you know how badly I want to kill you?
« on: May 14, 2009, 12:33:40 AM »
Anyone else think that question was a rhetorical inquiry based on friendship rather than a threat? Suppose Jacob wanted to be killed and the two were trying to find a way to break whatever rules prevented him from dying.

Offline Austruck

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Re: Do you know how badly I want to kill you?
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2009, 12:40:17 AM »
I don't know why he wants to kill him, but here's my theory about what's happening over the entire arc of the series:

I don't know WHY this is happening, but I'm convinced I know WHAT is happening.

The character sitting with Jacob in the beginning (far in the past, played by Titus Welliver of Deadwood fame) can somehow not only travel in time (like Jacob can) but also can make people think he is someone else, but only dead people.

He not only appeared as the dead Locke, but has been appearing as other dead people -- Christian, Charlie, Libby. His goal has been to find a way to kill Jacob all along (for what reason, we will find out in season 6), and he has been traveling around in time and taking on the appearance of dead people in order to try to get Jacob killed. Perhaps that first character we see isn't even the "original" guy, but another dead apparition.

It does seem as if the loophole was to find someone willing to kill Jacob. So until now he had been appearing as the wrong dead person, and appearing to the wrong living people. He got closer by appearing to Ben as Alex, but that wasn't quite enough. As Alex, he told Ben to listen to Locke ... and then appeared to Ben as Locke too, in order to tell him to kill Jacob.

Offline OhJoy

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Re: Do you know how badly I want to kill you?
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2009, 10:32:27 AM »
But after all these years of Jacob living he is stabbed by Ben and dies?  I suppose what you are saying Austruck makes sense that it was the right person willing to kill him... but it just seemed too easy to me..


Offline zeekloveslost

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Re: Do you know how badly I want to kill you?
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2009, 10:35:02 AM »
But after all these years of Jacob living he is stabbed by Ben and dies?  I suppose what you are saying Austruck makes sense that it was the right person willing to kill him... but it just seemed too easy to me..



Except we don't know for sure that Jacob is dead. This is Lost.

Offline Asmodean

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Re: Do you know how badly I want to kill you?
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2009, 10:36:35 AM »
Then there was that whole scene with Ben & Charles when Ben told him he couldn't kill him.  It's against "the rules."  Maybe the same sort of theme going on here.

Offline OhJoy

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Re: Do you know how badly I want to kill you?
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2009, 10:36:55 AM »
my bet is that he isn't.  because contrary to what Ben says.. dead is not dead on the island

Offline Writers_Strike

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Re: Do you know how badly I want to kill you?
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2009, 10:38:41 AM »
Am I the only one who thought the stabbing scene was more awkward and worse looking then the sub?

I think the loophole may have something to do with Locke resurrected by Jacob after his fall, or former leader choosing to kill him.

Offline bfth

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Re: Do you know how badly I want to kill you?
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2009, 10:46:50 AM »
Dead IS dead.  And the "other guy" (Esau) is appearing as Locke.  Locke IS dead and therefore, Ben is STILL the leader.  Therefore, the leader "killed" Jacob.

Offline Writers_Strike

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Re: Do you know how badly I want to kill you?
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2009, 10:51:20 AM »
Dead IS dead.  And the "other guy" (Esau) is appearing as Locke.  Locke IS dead and therefore, Ben is STILL the leader.  Therefore, the leader "killed" Jacob.

I like it, Flocke said "I am the leader right" "I am going to kill Jacob" "Ben you kill Jacob". The only thing I have a problem with is, does Ben automaticaly become the leader again?

Offline RM

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Re: Do you know how badly I want to kill you?
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2009, 06:33:39 PM »
I think Ben was the leader again the moment he killed the real Locke.

Richard said "there can only be one leader at a time" and also that two leaders can't go into Jacob's lair at the same time ... and they didn't.  Only the current leader (Ben) and the Smokey/Locke went in.

------

I think Jacob and Smokey are in a time loop, and at least Smokey is tired of reliving it.  Jacob says the ultimate end doesn't come until the loop itself ends (which may mean Jacob's death is the end of the looping).

Offline loopist

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Re: Do you know how badly I want to kill you?
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2009, 06:58:41 PM »
We saw how easily Ben got Michael to kill Libby and Ana Lucia, why does fake Locke need to go through this much trouble to off Jacob?  If it was just finding a "real" person to kill Jacob, I'm sure he could have found some easily manipulated person to do the deed.  So yeah, Ben must be special in this case, or the fact that he is the leader...

Offline lostandfree

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Re: Do you know how badly I want to kill you?
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2009, 07:03:44 PM »
Am I the only one who thought the stabbing scene was more awkward and worse looking then the sub?

I think the loophole may have something to do with Locke resurrected by Jacob after his fall, or former leader choosing to kill him.

I agree with you about the stabbing scene.  It looked totally lame.

Offline spencer

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Re: Do you know how badly I want to kill you?
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2009, 07:39:07 PM »
I think the reason why UnLocke wants Jacob to die is just to stop the endless
shipwrecks and crashes on the island, experiments that keep failing.

Offline Staggerlee

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Re: Do you know how badly I want to kill you?
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2009, 07:41:12 PM »
To prove his point, usurp...do the thing he criticizes the educated apes of doing..violence to end a problem...instead of just existing peacefully...
« Last Edit: May 14, 2009, 07:47:55 PM by Staggerlee »
There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion.

F. Bacon

Offline Ycare

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Re: Do you know how badly I want to kill you?
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2009, 08:06:49 PM »
A "loophole" is exactly what it is, a hole in the loop.
The loop is/was the losties who keep on going back in time and dying and coming, ad nauseam... The hole is the dead Locke, who was suppose to be the leader but got killed by Ben, who got back on the island himself. That's one empty seat. Faux Locke cannot kill Jacob himself, but needs someone's arm, Ben's lack of faith/disappointment is the flaw to Jacob's plan of meeting only selected people.