Author Topic: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?  (Read 6276 times)

Offline ButtercupSaiyan

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Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2009, 06:40:48 PM »
Whoo...

I think Richard and Ben might still be in cahoots.

Offline ukslim

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Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2009, 07:55:55 AM »
Let's not forget that when Richard tested Locke as a child, he failed the test.

Remind me how we know that.

Richard /said/ something about not being what they were looking for, and left the house. But what Richard says and what he thinks are two different things.

Offline GUTZandRAGE

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Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2009, 08:43:55 AM »
Just after Locke convinces the Others to follow him to see Jacob, the following dialog between Richard and Ben occurs:

"RICHARD: [To Ben, confidentially] I'm starting to think John Locke is gonna be trouble.

BEN: Why do you think I tried to kill him?"

(Thanks to Lostpedia for the transcript.)

I take this exchange to mean that Richard and Ben are together manipulating John into this leadership role for some unknown reason, and are now wondering if he will be more trouble than he is worth.  Perhaps this is a conclusion that Ben had already reached.

Ben, then, despite outward appearances, remains in the driver's seat, at least as master manipulator in chief.

Any thoughts on what is really going on from Richard and Ben's perspective?

My opinion on the subject is that the whole Jacob bit is being kept secret for a reason. Perhaps for the best. Ben understood it while he lead, and Alpert understands it completely. John doesn't simply want to see Jacob, that didn't seem to bother Alpert. John wanted EVERYONE to meet Jacob. That, to Alpert, was problematic at best.

But Ben is not on Richard's side. He tried to turn John against him real quick. This time John wasn't falling for it.

Offline Maddog13

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Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2009, 09:04:03 AM »
quote]Didn't he say "men in suits," griz?[[/quote]

Could mean Dharma suits and its our losties trying to stop locke (who is also a lostie).

Offline grizn0

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Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2009, 10:09:42 AM »
WALT: I've been having dreams about you. You were on the Island, wearing a suit, and there are people all around you. They wanted to hurt you, John

From Lostpedia transcript. I guess Locke was the one wearing the suit in his dream. Wonder what it means?

Offline BobBX542

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Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2009, 12:29:47 PM »
For everyone that is basing Richard's sudden lack of knowledge on the issue surround the bullet in Locke's leg, keep something in mind. We didn't just find out that Locke told Richard that. The first time we saw the scene, Ricahrd said to Locke that John told him that he was there with a bullet in his leg. Richard didn't just know that. It has seemed that in certain situations that Richard did just happen to know certain things, but he had to find them out somehow.

As far as the friendship/relationship between Richard and Ben, well, it seems almost like business as usual. The only thing that is different is that Ben isn't in charge anymore. I think when Richard said to Ben that Locke might be trouble, it was mainly because of habit. Richard used to talk to Ben about these things before, and now Ben is standing right there, so why NOT confide in him??

Offline grizn0

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Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2009, 02:25:21 PM »
That's what I got from it too. Although it was funny how Richard said "What is HE doing here" when he first saw Ben.

Offline BobBX542

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Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2009, 03:31:03 PM »
That's what I got from it too. Although it was funny how Richard said "What is HE doing here" when he first saw Ben.

True, probably because he knows (somehow) that Ben turned the wheel, and knows that whoever does that, shouldn't be able to get back.

Offline lostlady

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Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2009, 09:46:38 AM »
It was theorized in another thread by 'Shakey' that perhaps Ben is now following Smokey/Alex directions that Ben must do everything Locke says BUT Ben, being Ben, is manipulating Richard to not trusting Locke so that Richard and the others get rid of Locke and Ben wouldn't be blamed for it. I think it's a great theory and totallt something Ben would do!

Offline grizn0

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Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2009, 09:58:47 AM »
Smokey would still know his true intentions though. He won't get off that easily.

Offline TheBrightandTheDark

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Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2009, 11:24:10 AM »
...and Richard's the one who said Locke was going to be a problem. Ben had said little to him, I think, by that point, so maybe Richard made up his own mind about Locke.

Offline BobBX542

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Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2009, 11:27:24 AM »
Smokey would still know his true intentions though. He won't get off that easily.

Intentions and actions are two different things though. If Ben manipulates Richard and the others into killing Locke, that was their choice. I can try my damndest to get person A to kill Person B, but ultimately, it's Person A's choice.

Offline grizn0

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Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2009, 11:36:40 AM »
Smokey would still know his true intentions though. He won't get off that easily.

Intentions and actions are two different things though. If Ben manipulates Richard and the others into killing Locke, that was their choice. I can try my damndest to get person A to kill Person B, but ultimately, it's Person A's choice.
True. But if Ben is the major influence behind the decision, is he not still somehoe responsible?

Offline TheBrightandTheDark

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Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2009, 11:43:07 AM »
Ben has to be reallllllly careful about how he goes about this whole Locke business now. Smokey/Alex told him not to harm Locke, but to follow his direction. So Ben is going to figure out a way to do that, but at the same time, find loopholes as to how he can NOT do that at the same time.

I don't think it will be easy for him to manipulate Richard or the Others, since Locke seems to have already won over the group of them by taking them to Jacob, and Richard seems to have already made up his mind about things (and he's probably one of the only people who understand how Ben's mind works, I think. He knows Ben's tricks first-hand).

Offline BobBX542

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Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2009, 12:15:23 PM »
Smokey would still know his true intentions though. He won't get off that easily.

Intentions and actions are two different things though. If Ben manipulates Richard and the others into killing Locke, that was their choice. I can try my damndest to get person A to kill Person B, but ultimately, it's Person A's choice.
True. But if Ben is the major influence behind the decision, is he not still somehoe responsible?

He does hold some of the responsibility, but the bottomline (to me anyway) is that it would who ever actually decided to kill him, and did it.