Author Topic: Locke the Hunter -- or, How Daniel's Crazy Plan Plays Out  (Read 1542 times)

Offline norville

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Locke the Hunter -- or, How Daniel's Crazy Plan Plays Out
« on: May 07, 2009, 11:00:19 AM »
This episode heralds the return of John Locke to the camp of The Others carrying a slain boar on his back.  This iconic image reminds us both of him carrying his dead father into the Others camp back in season 3, but also of the time in season 1 when he was acting as the hunter for the crash survivors -- before he lost his way and started pushing the button.

Where did this renewed confidence come from?  And how does Locke's "resurrection" reconcile with Ben's confession that "Dead is dead.  You don't come back from that"?  Well, waking up in bed this morning a theory crystallized in my head, and though I'm sure there are holes and inconsistencies, I'm increasingly thinking it's got a chance.

The core of the theory is this:  Everything that happened since the flash on Ajira 316 (when our Losties went back to 1977) has been a new 2007, maybe one where pushing the hatch button never happened.  I and others have speculated about this ever since seeing New Otherton and wondering if the Purge ever happened, but tonight I think we got more evidence.  That is: John Locke wasn't resurrected -- in this new future, he never died.  Instead of spending season 2 pushing a button and being confused, he spent that time communing with the Island and learning its secrets.  Now, when he acts with jarring confidence and knows things he shouldn't know, it's because he has already learned those things as part of his experiences in this new timeline.  "The Island told me" is a codeword for "I learned it from my experiences on this Island in a past that only I experienced, but you did not."  In that new timeline, he learns the truth about Jacob, and now he's going to show everyone else.

This leaves open the question of how the Universe course corrects for Daniel's plan, how exactly people's memories are affected when the timeline changes dynamically, or how it all plays out.  This theory certainly seems to set up a number of paradoxes, but I'm having so much fun thinking about it, I'm just not so worried about the paradoxes any more.

If it holds any water, I think we'll see Jack and Sayid detonate Jughead in the finale next week, and then... we'll see what happens.  Things will be different.

Offline lostlady

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Re: Locke the Hunter -- or, How Daniel's Crazy Plan Plays Out
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2009, 11:08:14 AM »
That is an interesting idea. I guess the plan for the writers would then be to use the last season to explain how the future had been changed and we would see how their memories are affected and who lives and/or dies as a result. I kind of like this idea...

Offline jamesl

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Re: Locke the Hunter -- or, How Daniel's Crazy Plan Plays Out
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2009, 11:09:38 AM »

Offline norville

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Re: Locke the Hunter -- or, How Daniel's Crazy Plan Plays Out
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2009, 12:32:37 PM »
You're right, jamesl, the risk game in Ben's house does seem to debunk the theory that the Others never moved into & lived in New Otherton.  However, I still find it pretty interesting that TPTB chose to include in the "Previously on LOST" clips that began last night's episode the line where Ben tells Sun "Dead is dead... you don't come back from that."  To me, this is a hint that possibly Locke didn't come back from the dead -- that perhaps at least one "change" that was wrought by Daniel's plan was that, in this new timeline, Locke didn't die.

Offline hyperform

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Re: Locke the Hunter -- or, How Daniel's Crazy Plan Plays Out
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2009, 12:37:23 PM »
people that quote Ben's "dead is dead" all seem to forget him taking the body to Jill the Butcher, and when Jack flat out asked Ben "he is dead, isn't he?" and Ben totally dodged the question.

Offline Novashannon

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Re: Locke the Hunter -- or, How Daniel's Crazy Plan Plays Out
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2009, 12:58:45 PM »
How many times must I point out that Ben is the Lord of Lies?

Offline Writers_Strike

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Re: Locke the Hunter -- or, How Daniel's Crazy Plan Plays Out
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2009, 01:01:20 PM »
Another hole in your therory is that Richard and the others recall John dissapearing during the Donkey wheel flash 3 years ago.

Offline lostlady

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Re: Locke the Hunter -- or, How Daniel's Crazy Plan Plays Out
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2009, 02:32:57 PM »
How many times must I point out that Ben is the Lord of Lies?

lol!! That is why I love the character of Ben--crafty and conniving and always, always, up to no good!

Offline RM

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Re: Locke the Hunter -- or, How Daniel's Crazy Plan Plays Out
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2009, 04:59:00 PM »
Well, this Locke certainly remembers being killed by Ben, so this isn't an alternate future where that never happened.

Preview spoiler:

Plus, it looks like the course correction is that Richard hacks open a hole to release the Swan energy anyway despite Jack's and Dr. Chang's efforts to prevent that from happening.

Offline norville

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Re: Locke the Hunter -- or, How Daniel's Crazy Plan Plays Out
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2009, 06:26:46 PM »
A colleague of mine pointed out to me that my theory has the potential of explaining another interesting question from this season:  why Jack, Kate, Hugo and Sayid flashed off flight 316 back to 1977, but Sun did not.  Sun was the only one who had not been contacted off-island by Locke.  I haven't really gotten my head around this yet, but maybe when we were introduced to the "new" 2007 (the one where Locke had never died), then Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sayid (the ones Locke had asked to return to the island with him) no longer belonged on the plane -- instead they had to flash back to 1977 so they could set in motion the events leading up to the incident.  Sun, who had no personal contact with Locke off-island, was left in 2007.  Interesting coincidence?  I dunno.

The continuity of everyone's memories, of course, seems quite problematic for my theory.  Certainly John remembers being killed by Ben... would he really remember that if now, in the new 2007, he hadn't died?  We know Ben remembers killing Locke... same deal.  So the argument against my theory goes, if what happened suddenly didn't actually happen any more... well, why do they still remember it?  I'm not sure if this necessarily invalidates my theory, though, or if perhaps the "rules" are such that everyone experiences exactly one timeline, and even if the Universe makes the necessary course corrections, you still go on remembering your own choices, and what happened in your own timeline, no matter how time & space flash around you.  Ugh, now my head hurts.

Offline joshzam

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Re: Locke the Hunter -- or, How Daniel's Crazy Plan Plays Out
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2009, 09:51:40 PM »
Sun did not go back because Jin made Locke promise not to bring her back.

Offline Holland34

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Re: Locke the Hunter -- or, How Daniel's Crazy Plan Plays Out
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2009, 02:31:54 AM »
Sun did not go back because Jin made Locke promise not to bring her back.

This could be an interesting theory, but I am not following the logic behind it... Jin made Locke promise not to bring Sun back to the island.  But Locke sort of did bring Sun back (actually, Ben did, but in that line of thought, Locke didn't bring anyone back).  Anyway, why would that promise prevent Sun from "flashing" like the rest of the group that ended up in 1977?  I'm intrigued with this idea!

Offline ukslim

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Re: Locke the Hunter -- or, How Daniel's Crazy Plan Plays Out
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2009, 07:26:27 AM »
Well, this Locke certainly remembers being killed by Ben, so this isn't an alternate future where that never happened.

Exactly. In an alternate universe where he had never been killed, Ben would not remember being killed.