Author Topic: Confused about timeline with Richard and Locke  (Read 9797 times)

Offline TheBrightandTheDark

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Re: Confused about timeline with Richard and Locke
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2009, 12:09:02 PM »
Everyone's welcome on my Useless Path of non-discussion! lol. It's kinda like at water parks, where you just sit on a float and let the "river" take you around and around....plus, I have sandwiches, and beer and cookies. We can just hang out and let the writers work out the details.  ;)

Offline hyperform

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Re: Confused about timeline with Richard and Locke
« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2009, 01:53:35 PM »
cmon Jackii, don't just give up on the concept, this is part of the fun, as long as certain people who flat out will not listen to reason don't weigh in, I like discussing this sort of thing. ;)

Offline Novashannon

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Re: Confused about timeline with Richard and Locke
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2009, 01:56:27 PM »
I'd REALLY like to know where Locke got such "impeccable timing" though! How did HE know when that was, particularly since he wasn't there for very long?
Hmm, I hadn't thought about that, but yeah. How would he have known down to the minute when to show up to look for himself? He didn't know time or day the first time during the flashes, did he?


The island told him.

Offline TheBrightandTheDark

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Re: Confused about timeline with Richard and Locke
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2009, 02:01:00 PM »
cmon Jackii, don't just give up on the concept, this is part of the fun, as long as certain people who flat out will not listen to reason don't weigh in, I like discussing this sort of thing. ;)
me too... but I'd just be saying the same thing I've been saying for the last four months, so I don't know how I can forward the discussion in any way.  :-\ When I have nothing to say, my lips are sealed.  ;)

Offline Holland34

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Re: Confused about timeline with Richard and Locke
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2009, 02:12:18 PM »
Everyone's welcome on my Useless Path of non-discussion! lol. It's kinda like at water parks, where you just sit on a float and let the "river" take you around and around....plus, I have sandwiches, and beer and cookies. We can just hang out and let the writers work out the details.  ;)

I'm actually willing to give up on the discussion for sandwiches, beer, and cookies!   ;D

Short of actually receiving those things... I'm going with the island told Locke.  That said, with all the discussion of the plausability of this time travel and a paradox or two (which reminds me of someone else's joke... two = pair o' Docs), etc, etc, etc... no one has yet mentioned the other huge strangeness from the scene.  The island is literally talking to John?  Really?  Are they having conversations?  "Hi John... how was the trip?"  "Good... and your's?"  Hmmmm...

Offline opgelost

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Re: Confused about timeline with Richard and Locke
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2009, 02:56:12 PM »
Hi guys thanks to all that replied and THANKS FOR UNDERSTANDING!! (whew)

I think I may join Mrs Alpert on  the "useless path"  ;)
But the only explanation that makes any kind of sense to me is what Norville said about the Island actually playing a part in this. That is the only way that this could work I guess.

Cayley I understand what you were saying, but Richard could not have known to take the bullet out of time time travelling Locke without 2007(8?) Locke telling him to do so....so even taking into consideration linear time lines mixing with time jumping time lines, it still could not happen that way. Because one act required the knowledge of the other and there was no prior knowledge until .... AGHHH

OK I'm going with.......the Island told present Locke to tell Richard to tell time skipping Locke  ;D


It is like the losties in 1977, Dan comes off the sub and tells Chang there will be an incident in 6 hours and that he need to evacuate
people, saving young Charlotte and Miles, so that they can be on the freighter in 2004. Chang could not have known to evacuate people without timetravelling Dan telling him.

Locke during his flashes went to the future, to 2008. For 2008 Locke that is past, but it still has to happen, he will appear shot by Ethan in 10 minuts. He tells Richard what to do, like Dan told Chang what to do.

Offline ButtercupSaiyan

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Re: Confused about timeline with Richard and Locke
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2009, 05:58:50 PM »
1. After Ben turning the wheel, Locke travels to the time when the beachcraft crashes and is shot by Ethan,
than there is another flash. They are in the future, because the Swan is imploded.
We now know that this flash brought them to 2008, when Locke is back on the island with Ben.
Richard in 2008 has the compass, because Locke gave it to him in 1954. He gives it to Locke.

2. The compass is old and rusty, because it was in Richard's pockett for 54 years.

3. Locke flashes to 1954 and gives the 54 years old compass to Richard.
He keeps it for 54 years and in 2008 gives it to timeflashing Locke, now it is an 108 years old compass.

So in step 2 it was an 108 years old compass and in step 3 the compass would be 162 years and so on.  ???

I think the compass is as old as Richard is.
 

Wrong.  There are no time cycles shown YET.  There is only one past and one present.

How can Locke keep on traveling to the past if he only went there once?  Time isn't circular; it may be subjective, but it isó in factó always proceeding in only one direction, toward the future.

The show has not given us any conclusive evidence that they are trapped in a time loop like Groundhog Day or somesuch.

Offline opgelost

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Re: Confused about timeline with Richard and Locke
« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2009, 06:08:10 PM »
But this is a cycle. Even if I don't like it.

Locke asks Richard in 2008 if he still has the compass (the one he gave him in 1954)
Richard says yes, it's rusty, but still points north. (rusty, because he had it for 54 years)
Minuts later Richard gives that same compass to timetravelling Locke.
Than that Locke disappears and Ben asks where he went and 2008
Locke answers that he went to give Richard his compass back (in 1954).


Offline Writers_Strike

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Re: Confused about timeline with Richard and Locke
« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2009, 06:24:19 PM »
1. After Ben turning the wheel, Locke travels to the time when the beachcraft crashes and is shot by Ethan,
than there is another flash. They are in the future, because the Swan is imploded.
We now know that this flash brought them to 2008, when Locke is back on the island with Ben.
Richard in 2008 has the compass, because Locke gave it to him in 1954. He gives it to Locke.

2. The compass is old and rusty, because it was in Richard's pockett for 54 years.

3. Locke flashes to 1954 and gives the 54 years old compass to Richard.
He keeps it for 54 years and in 2008 gives it to timeflashing Locke, now it is an 108 years old compass.

So in step 2 it was an 108 years old compass and in step 3 the compass would be 162 years and so on.  ???

I think the compass is as old as Richard is.
 

Wrong.  There are no time cycles shown YET.  There is only one past and one present.

How can Locke keep on traveling to the past if he only went there once?  Time isn't circular; it may be subjective, but it isó in factó always proceeding in only one direction, toward the future.

The show has not given us any conclusive evidence that they are trapped in a time loop like Groundhog Day or somesuch.

They just showed the compass going through it's cycle. Locke is not traveling in the past multiple times, the compass is. The compass ages because it stayed with Richard for 54 years then is given to Locke to return to richard 54 years in the past. It keeps geting older in the loop.

Offline rhythm

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Re: Confused about timeline with Richard and Locke
« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2009, 06:26:11 PM »
The question should be: "where did the compass come from originally?"  And I don't mean Richard giving it to Locke and then Locke giving it to Richard.  How did it get to the Island to begin with?

Think this is a very good question. My guess is from the Black Rock.

Okay, but how did Locke/Richard get it?  How did it originally come into their possession?

Offline CastawayCayley

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Re: Confused about timeline with Richard and Locke
« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2009, 06:32:42 PM »
Hi guys thanks to all that replied and THANKS FOR UNDERSTANDING!! (whew)

I think I may join Mrs Alpert on  the "useless path"  ;)
But the only explanation that makes any kind of sense to me is what Norville said about the Island actually playing a part in this. That is the only way that this could work I guess.

Cayley I understand what you were saying, but Richard could not have known to take the bullet out of time time travelling Locke without 2007(8?) Locke telling him to do so....so even taking into consideration linear time lines mixing with time jumping time lines, it still could not happen that way. Because one act required the knowledge of the other and there was no prior knowledge until .... AGHHH

OK I'm going with.......the Island told present Locke to tell Richard to tell time skipping Locke  ;D


Richard never ever took the bullet out without being told to do it by Locke. He took it out because Locke told him to the first and only time it happened, which was the day Locke got back to the others camp and took Richard to the Beechcraft in 2007. That was the point in time that Locke had jumped to back before he turned the donkey wheel. Richard didn't know what to do or what to say because he had never experienced it, but Locke had so he knew what to tell him to say and do.

Offline ButtercupSaiyan

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Re: Confused about timeline with Richard and Locke
« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2009, 06:38:48 PM »
Can someone link to the Sledgeweb article explaining time travel that likens it to termites gnawing through wood, please?

Offline nomteticus

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Re: Confused about timeline with Richard and Locke
« Reply #42 on: May 07, 2009, 08:17:26 PM »
They have done it! Paradocks, i mean.  :)

If Richard had a new compass in 1954 when Locke gave him the 54 year old compass, it would make sense. In 2004 Richard would have two compasses, one 54 yo and one 104 yo, and if he gives Locke the 54yo compass and keeps the 108 yo one, it would be normal.

But since Richard specifies that he has THE compass Locke gave him, that it's rusty, but stil works, and gives Locke the 108 (get it, 108, numbers anyone  ;D) yo compass, then it has to be a paradox. The compass would just keep aging and aging on every loop. It would basically have an infinite timespan, which would make the compass not rusty, but disintegrate.

I think they just screwed up. Richard should have had a younger compass to give to Locke.

Offline LostGirlDeb

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Re: Confused about timeline with Richard and Locke
« Reply #43 on: May 07, 2009, 10:56:14 PM »
Hi guys thanks to all that replied and THANKS FOR UNDERSTANDING!! (whew)

I think I may join Mrs Alpert on  the "useless path"  ;)
But the only explanation that makes any kind of sense to me is what Norville said about the Island actually playing a part in this. That is the only way that this could work I guess.

Cayley I understand what you were saying, but Richard could not have known to take the bullet out of time time travelling Locke without 2007(8?) Locke telling him to do so....so even taking into consideration linear time lines mixing with time jumping time lines, it still could not happen that way. Because one act required the knowledge of the other and there was no prior knowledge until .... AGHHH

OK I'm going with.......the Island told present Locke to tell Richard to tell time skipping Locke  ;D


It is like the losties in 1977, Dan comes off the sub and tells Chang there will be an incident in 6 hours and that he need to evacuate
people, saving young Charlotte and Miles, so that they can be on the freighter in 2004. Chang could not have known to evacuate people without timetravelling Dan telling him.

Locke during his flashes went to the future, to 2008. For 2008 Locke that is past, but it still has to happen, he will appear shot by Ethan in 10 minuts. He tells Richard what to do, like Dan told Chang what to do.
Its not the same thing because in this instance Locke is telling Richard to tell himself something that he could not have known even with time jumping.  Someone would have had to tell Locke first in order for him to tell Richard to tell himself
I sound like a crazy person.. Going to float away with Mrs Alpert now...

Offline LostGirlDeb

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Re: Confused about timeline with Richard and Locke
« Reply #44 on: May 07, 2009, 11:14:08 PM »
Hi guys thanks to all that replied and THANKS FOR UNDERSTANDING!! (whew)

I think I may join Mrs Alpert on  the "useless path"  ;)
But the only explanation that makes any kind of sense to me is what Norville said about the Island actually playing a part in this. That is the only way that this could work I guess.

Cayley I understand what you were saying, but Richard could not have known to take the bullet out of time time travelling Locke without 2007(8?) Locke telling him to do so....so even taking into consideration linear time lines mixing with time jumping time lines, it still could not happen that way. Because one act required the knowledge of the other and there was no prior knowledge until .... AGHHH

OK I'm going with.......the Island told present Locke to tell Richard to tell time skipping Locke  ;D


Richard never ever took the bullet out without being told to do it by Locke. He took it out because Locke told him to the first and only time it happened, which was the day Locke got back to the others camp and took Richard to the Beechcraft in 2007. That was the point in time that Locke had jumped to back before he turned the donkey wheel. Richard didn't know what to do or what to say because he had never experienced it, but Locke had so he knew what to tell him to say and do.
Yes I know and understand all of that, BUT (maybe you are not understanding my question/confusion and I am having at hell of a time making it clear sorry  :-*) the only way for this to work is if someone or something told Locke to begin with
Because Locke had to tell Richard, at the moment where he tells Richard what to say to past Locke  had not yet met Richard at the beach craft nor had he had that experienced that scene  in his time jumping time period yet either.  Remember that the time jumping John did not appear in the jungle until AFTER John Told Richard what to say  (It had not happened to past John yet) 
Its almost like what came first, the chicken or the egg.  But in this case there had to be a beginning and maybe the key is what John said about the island telling him things.  He in essence created his own past/future at the same time with no prior knowledge
God I hope that made sense