Author Topic: Confused about timeline with Richard and Locke  (Read 9325 times)

Offline TheBrightandTheDark

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Re: Confused about timeline with Richard and Locke
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2009, 02:50:30 AM »
LostGirlDeb: I have taken myself out of all paradox discussion, lol. I understand what you're saying, it does seem like a loop. Just as people said above, I think, that Richard only goes to see Locke in 1956 because Locke tells him in 1954 to do so. Richard is being manipulated by Locke.

I've been so confused by these time-travel things I've just shut my mind to it. Just... letting the writers take me wherever they want. I'm not a scientist (well, except in the DI  :D), so I'm not sure I could wrap my mind around things to begin with. Plus, it's time travel. If anybody says they're an "expert" in time travel, unless they're a Daniel-Faraday-caliber physicist, I just have to laugh.

So... I do understand what you're saying, and I feel just as frustrated. Sorry I can't help, though, but this useless path is the one I'm taking and you're welcome to join me.  ;D

Offline norville

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Re: Confused about timeline with Richard and Locke
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2009, 02:51:34 AM »
Ben asked Locke about his impeccable timing, didn't he?  And Locke's response was, "The Island told me."  The causation for this scene is as follows: The Island tells (present) Locke to take Richard to the beechcraft at time X. Locke takes him, and sends him on the errand. Richard helps (past) Locke, as instructed. Past Locke continues on his path.

Through the whole scene, (present) Locke has a big, satisfied smile on his face. I think this is because he realizes the Island has been preparing him the whole time for his current role. In this particular scene, the Island even gives him an opportunity to participate in his own character development. This is a reward, in effect, for all his expressions of faith in the Island -- he gets to participate in the Island's work. It's a bit convoluted, yes, but I don't exactly see it as a paradox, because the Island is the primary causation, not Locke himself.

Offline Maxor127

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Re: Confused about timeline with Richard and Locke
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2009, 03:11:15 AM »
Yeah, which means wouldn't this compass keep rusting and rusting until it deteriorated into nothing if it keeps getting passed on in some sort of loop?

Offline jamesl

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Re: Confused about timeline with Richard and Locke
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2009, 03:13:58 AM »
LostGirlDeb,

you are 100% right
and I don't think anyone will be able to explain to to your satisfaction; I know they won't be able to explain it to mine :)
I'm just going to have to accept this is will always be a time travel mystery or the writers will explain it in a future episode

norville,
is also correct
I hope everyone here rewatches the show, because I think that was a VERY important comment by Locke and relates to the unfolding of the story;
the island told him when and where to go

Offline opgelost

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Re: Confused about timeline with Richard and Locke
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2009, 07:16:25 AM »
1. After Ben turning the wheel, Locke travels to the time when the beachcraft crashes and is shot by Ethan,
than there is another flash. They are in the future, because the Swan is imploded.
We now know that this flash brought them to 2008, when Locke is back on the island with Ben.
Richard in 2008 has the compass, because Locke gave it to him in 1954. He gives it to Locke.

2. The compass is old and rusty, because it was in Richard's pockett for 54 years.

3. Locke flashes to 1954 and gives the 54 years old compass to Richard.
He keeps it for 54 years and in 2008 gives it to timeflashing Locke, now it is an 108 years old compass.

So in step 2 it was an 108 years old compass and in step 3 the compass would be 162 years and so on.  ???

I think the compass is as old as Richard is.
 

Offline jugdish

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Re: Confused about timeline with Richard and Locke
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2009, 07:33:34 AM »
I agree with all of you. I am very confused also!! lol

Reading all of you posts just gave me a headache!!!

I am starting to feel like I am not going to fully understand this story because they have made it so complicated with time travel.

Offline rhythm

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Re: Confused about timeline with Richard and Locke
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2009, 09:00:58 AM »
The question should be: "where did the compass come from originally?"  And I don't mean Richard giving it to Locke and then Locke giving it to Richard.  How did it get to the Island to begin with?

Offline grizn0

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Re: Confused about timeline with Richard and Locke
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2009, 09:13:03 AM »
Right, so he was holding on to that compass since 1954. Then he gives it to "shot in the leg" Locke and tells him next time he sees Richard, Richard will not remember him and he needs to give him the compass. Locke then flashes to 1954 and gives Richard the compass completing the cycle.

Offline CastawayCayley

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Re: Confused about timeline with Richard and Locke
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2009, 09:48:25 AM »
There is something wrong here  please bear with me because it is very hard to explain..it makes perfect sense in my head
I am confused and a little annoyed and I will try my best to explain and ask my question

John and Richard are in the jungle right before the moment where past time skipping John will sit by the beach craft
Present John tells Richard what to say to past John when he appears
How can this be?
Present John knows how this scene will go down because it happened in the past
BUT
It happened because that way because Present John told Richard how it was suppose to happen
How is that possible?  (And here is the part that is hard to explain so bear with me)

How could present John know what to tell Richard to say to past John if past John had not lived it yet?
Present John only gained that bit of info/insight AFTER he met Richard at the beach craft in the past,
 
Therefore, it is impossible for the scene to have played out like it did.

Yes I know that it happened to John in the past,(and so of course he would know this in the future) but it only happened that way because present John told Richard what to say....This can't be

There is a problem...unless this is a loop, but even if it was a loop it would have started with Richard doing what he did (taking the bullet out etc..)without present John telling him do so.

I hope you guys are getting what I'm saying here because it is so frustrating trying to explain it
And I hope some one can explain it to me... paradox?


I think I understand what your asking Deb... at least the part I highlighted. My take is this:

There are two timelines: Lockes and the worlds. The worlds is linear, it goes in one straight chronological order. Locke has been jumping from spot to spot in the world's timeline but his timeline is still straight... what we have seen happen to him is what his timeline is, and pretty much in the order in which we saw it.

So meeting Richard at the Beechcraft is in Locke's past, but in the world's present. He jumped to 1954, 2004 and apparently to this moment in time and he knows what to Richard should say because he already heard it. Richard would not have (and has not ever) taken the bullet out of time travelling Locke without 2007(8?) Locke telling him too. It's not a loop and it hasn't been happening over and over. It's just how it happened. Of course, if they do change the future and 815 lands, then it DOES mean we have alternate timelines, but as of now I do not believe there is a loop. Just one timeline where whatever happened happened. 

Offline vickilynn

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Re: Confused about timeline with Richard and Locke
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2009, 09:56:45 AM »
I understand your question, Deb. I keep wondering about this also, especially since the Locke at the airplane didn't know what was happening...and RIchard told him he would eventually.

Offline SQUIRT199

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Re: Confused about timeline with Richard and Locke
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2009, 10:08:44 AM »
Ok,

I have been arguing time travel thoeries here since the beginning of thsi season.

this compass has now totally screwed me.

Someone in the last epi's thread, proposed an Idea of a future self going back in time to see himself and give himself a watch, then the past self,

http://lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php?topic=9421.msg539571#msg539571

I remember thinking, well the watch was made some time in the future before you went back in time and gave it to your self.

Now this very situation has happened on the show and I have no idea where this compas came from,  in the above example there is a chance for the watch to be created, but this compass,  is given to locke at the beach craft in what was now obviously 2008 (aka Present day) which is then given to richard in 1954, and then is given back to locke in 2008 to give to richard to give to locke,  OMG.

I dont think there is any type of loop going on, This compas was only given to locke once, there would be no re4peated deterioration of the watch,  what confuses me is how was it made, when was the compass created?

I dont see any possible explanation for this.  I am now totally confuse, I thought I understood what the writeres were doing but now I am  totally Spun . :(

Offline bfth

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Re: Confused about timeline with Richard and Locke
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2009, 10:10:06 AM »
The question should be: "where did the compass come from originally?"  And I don't mean Richard giving it to Locke and then Locke giving it to Richard.  How did it get to the Island to begin with?

Think this is a very good question. My guess is from the Black Rock.

Offline Writers_Strike

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Re: Confused about timeline with Richard and Locke
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2009, 10:33:56 AM »
1. After Ben turning the wheel, Locke travels to the time when the beachcraft crashes and is shot by Ethan,
than there is another flash. They are in the future, because the Swan is imploded.
We now know that this flash brought them to 2008, when Locke is back on the island with Ben.
Richard in 2008 has the compass, because Locke gave it to him in 1954. He gives it to Locke.

2. The compass is old and rusty, because it was in Richard's pockett for 54 years.

3. Locke flashes to 1954 and gives the 54 years old compass to Richard.
He keeps it for 54 years and in 2008 gives it to timeflashing Locke, now it is an 108 years old compass.

So in step 2 it was an 108 years old compass and in step 3 the compass would be 162 years and so on.  ???

I think the compass is as old as Richard is.
 
I dont think there is any type of loop going on, This compas was only given to locke once, there would be no re4peated deterioration of the watch,  what confuses me is how was it made, when was the compass created?

I agree with opgelost. The watch that Richard gave Locke was at least 54 years old. The watch Locke gave Richard back in 1954 was at least 54 years old. Richard has the watch for 54 more years before giving it back to Locke at the beechcraft etc.....

Unless Richard has an aura of tachyons that prevent him and things in his pocket from aging then the watch will keep aging and disentergrate.



Offline Des

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Re: Confused about timeline with Richard and Locke
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2009, 10:52:39 AM »
LostGirlDeb: I have taken myself out of all paradox discussion, lol. I understand what you're saying, it does seem like a loop. Just as people said above, I think, that Richard only goes to see Locke in 1956 because Locke tells him in 1954 to do so. Richard is being manipulated by Locke.

I've been so confused by these time-travel things I've just shut my mind to it. Just... letting the writers take me wherever they want. I'm not a scientist (well, except in the DI  :D), so I'm not sure I could wrap my mind around things to begin with. Plus, it's time travel. If anybody says they're an "expert" in time travel, unless they're a Daniel-Faraday-caliber physicist, I just have to laugh.

So... I do understand what you're saying, and I feel just as frustrated. Sorry I can't help, though, but this useless path is the one I'm taking and you're welcome to join me.  ;D

Definitely the path I'm taking! I'm just ready for the writers to reveal to me instead of theorizing about what happened, happened, or whether they can change things, or if it's a paradox, an unending loop... forget it. I don't even want to think about it. I'll just patiently (uh, or maybe impatiently) wait until the writers decide to reveal it to us.

Offline LostGirlDeb

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Re: Confused about timeline with Richard and Locke
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2009, 11:25:03 AM »
Hi guys thanks to all that replied and THANKS FOR UNDERSTANDING!! (whew)

I think I may join Mrs Alpert on  the "useless path"  ;)
But the only explanation that makes any kind of sense to me is what Norville said about the Island actually playing a part in this. That is the only way that this could work I guess.

Cayley I understand what you were saying, but Richard could not have known to take the bullet out of time time travelling Locke without 2007(8?) Locke telling him to do so....so even taking into consideration linear time lines mixing with time jumping time lines, it still could not happen that way. Because one act required the knowledge of the other and there was no prior knowledge until .... AGHHH

OK I'm going with.......the Island told present Locke to tell Richard to tell time skipping Locke  ;D