Author Topic: There are no Variables  (Read 9750 times)

Offline BrianIsLost2

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Re: There are no Variables
« Reply #90 on: May 05, 2009, 04:46:20 PM »
OK new theory on Desmond's memory.

Dan talked to Des sometime around 2001-3 and told him to find his mom and save them. During this time Dan dissapears and travels to another time 1954 I think. Maybe during the flash Desmond's memory of that conversation traveled with them.

Before that scene was when Locke got shot by Ethan and flashed to the future (post rescue). We know this because Richard told Locke that he was the one that dissapeared. So I am thinking that this time when Richard is fixing John's leg is the same night that Desmond remembers the conversation with Dan. His memory flashed with Dan and the gang and landed in his head 4-6 years later.

What do you think?



I don't think this is too far off.  We already know that Desmond's conscience can travel in time.  the flases could have an effect on that.  This would make sense.

Offline jphimself

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Re: There are no Variables
« Reply #91 on: May 06, 2009, 12:39:27 AM »
Reading through the posts in this thread, I didn't see anyone reference the info provided by Darlton in their latest podcast.

They report that the scene in which Daniel tries to explain the possibility of changing events in the future to Jack and Kate was longer when written and originally shot.  The lines that were cut for the broadcast version had Daniel throwing a stone into the creek to illustrate that small events only send small ripples through the flow of time.  But if a very large stone were dropped into the creek it would have the possibility of diverting the flow of the stream.

I thought we might as well throw TPTB's ideas on the possibility of altering events on the table as long as we are speculating.  They do, in the podcast, seem to see this as the true Lost view of time.

For me, I would take the detonation of a hydrogen bomb as a boulder-sized intrusion into the flow of time.  However, by the persistence, not to say cold calm, of Eloise, a relatively small bullet-sized event prevents the larger possibility.  She must foresee something really bad to sacrifice her son so that the Incident can take place as scheduled.  Although, since the Incident has apparently always happened, how does she or anyone know how events will proceed if it were prevented by Dan?

Offline Adriana

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Re: There are no Variables
« Reply #92 on: May 06, 2009, 01:41:12 AM »
Building off of the theory I'm building on this thread (and which I quickly touched on over on the "RIP Daniel" thread) ... if anyone can change Whatever Happened, Happened, it's Desmond.

We (everyone on the Island) are travelling forward and backward on a string. Right?  There IS not OTHER string.  We can move forward, we can move back, but we can't change strings (no alternate realities).

BUT -- huge BUT -- there is one man who can cause our course to shift, to change strings, to usher us in to an alternate reality, and that man is Desmond.  Based on his already-established abilities, this makes total logical sense.


AND IF Desmond goes back to the island, makes a HUGE change (which will be hard, but he is the one capable of doing it) which impacts the course of time our Losties are taking, then MAYBE...

-- here's my other, more far-out, less baked, less reason-based theory --

... MAYBE Sun and Ben and Locke and Lapidus are in the Alternate 2004 string that Desmond is going to create, waiting for Desmond to change history and for the Losties to catch up with them.

(Obviously, if I'm right about that, it would suggest that Sun and Locke don't just walk safely off Oceanic 815 into L.A. in Alternate 2004).

Offline Adriana

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Re: There are no Variables
« Reply #93 on: May 06, 2009, 01:55:17 AM »
And now ... with my final thought before I go to bed ... while we're on the subject of an Alternate 2004/2007 (or rather, while I'm waxing on about it), if you're confused about what I mean by an "alternate string" or "alternate 2004," just think of Doc drawing the diagonal line between his Past and Present timeline to designate "Alternate 1984 in Back to the Future.

If you can't remember, or need to brush up, check out minute 1:20 of this AWESOME BTTF "Time Paradox Explainer" video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OPkqY9doGE

Enjoy.

Offline Optimus J

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Re: There are no Variables
« Reply #94 on: May 06, 2009, 06:08:30 AM »
Dan told Jack and Kate that they can change the past because they were Variables in the equation. He said they had free will to change things. His plan was to detonate Jughead to prevent the hatch from being built in the first place. Dan even pulled a Mcfly and brought his very own sports almanac from the future (the journal). He knew exactly when the incident happens and when Chang would be "right on time" at the Orchid. Yet he still gets shot by his own mother like always. He did what he was supposed to do, what hes always done.

What this episode shows us is that there are no variables, what ever happens already happened. Every "free will" decision they make leads to the hatch being built and the button being pressed.

Every time I see people raising the question of variables I simply weight. I weight the force, mass, everything of those "variables" and the rest of the equation, or better saying, the WHOLE FREAKING UNIVERSE. Those variables look so tiny, that I simply can't believe they can change anything, because of proportion.
The only uncertain things is what we didn't saw. 77's people already have they path traced.

Offline opgelost

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Re: There are no Variables
« Reply #95 on: May 06, 2009, 06:09:24 AM »
...Off the top of my head, from Daniel's perspective the conversation takes place somewhat soon (within days) after Desmond leaves the island (Ben moves the donkey wheel and those on the island start flashing around), but Desmond doesn't recall the conversation until about three years of being off the island.  Can anyone confirm? ...

I guess its how you define "from Daniel's perspective"
I would say, from Daniel's perspective, the conversation happened years before Widmore's crew (Daniel, Miles, the Mercs)  even got to the island


I say from Dan's perspective his conversation with Des happend less then 6 hours after the freighter exploded. Desmond remembers 3 years after he left the island.

I think it was about 4-6 years from when the 2 had their chat to when Des remebers it.

Maybe Dan knocking on the door didn't trigger Desmond's memory, but something that happens 3 years later does.
Daniel left the island in 1974 and maybe three years later he visits young Desmond off-island.

I don't think that only Desmond is the variable. Dan said that us are variables, us people. We change our destiny, because we have free will and make choices.
They all are variables and they change things by shooting young Ben, saving young Ben, telling Chang the truth, talking to others and Dharma in 1977 etc. The future we saw is the future they created. Without them there would be no Ethan, no bad Ben etc.

Offline Optimus J

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Re: There are no Variables
« Reply #96 on: May 06, 2009, 06:40:23 AM »
Since the first time I saw the episode I thought that above Eloise, Dan himself knew it was coming.
He cries when he watches the news, probably knowing that he will die in the expedition.
He come back from Ann Arbour with that crazy desperate theory of variables, trying to avoid the fate he have on his subconscious.
Remember his mind is fragmented because he applied the Elloise experiments on himself and his girlfriend, thus their minds traveled time.
What I can't understand is why he enter otherville waving a gun, instead of throwing petals, that was THE THING that could have changed that fate, and changed things.

Offline ukslim

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Re: There are no Variables
« Reply #97 on: May 06, 2009, 06:52:17 AM »

Every time I see people raising the question of variables I simply weight. I weight the force, mass, everything of those "variables" and the rest of the equation, or better saying, the WHOLE FREAKING UNIVERSE. Those variables look so tiny, that I simply can't believe they can change anything, because of proportion.

But consider chaos theory. The butterfly effect (not the movie). For certain systems, tiny changes to the inputs *do* cause massive changes to the output. OTOH there's scale, and then there's SCALE. A butterfly flapping its wings in England might cause a tropical storm in South America, but it won't affect Earth's orbit.

Offline opgelost

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Re: There are no Variables
« Reply #98 on: May 07, 2009, 07:30:39 AM »
I really liked the whatever happened happened direction and no parallel universes.

But now Alpert in 2008 said he watched them all die in 1977.
I don't think Lost will end with only Sun, Des and Penny alive.

Offline RM

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Re: There are no Variables
« Reply #99 on: May 07, 2009, 01:25:06 PM »
Maybe Dan knocking on the door didn't trigger Desmond's memory, but something that happens 3 years later does.
Daniel left the island in 1974 and maybe three years later he visits young Desmond off-island.

Well, the obvious big event that happened 3 years later is ... DANIEL DIED.  So maybe his death completes some circuit that allows the memory of that event to be placed in Desmond's memory "3 years after it happened" (from Daniel's perspective)?

Offline Holland34

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Re: There are no Variables
« Reply #100 on: May 07, 2009, 01:59:56 PM »
I really liked the whatever happened happened direction and no parallel universes.

But now Alpert in 2008 said he watched them all die in 1977.
I don't think Lost will end with only Sun, Des and Penny alive.


My confidence in Alpert's honesty is not as high as it once was (not sure how high it used to be, but I have a feeling he has an agenda that he is trying to protect.)