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vickilynn
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« Reply #30 on: April 30, 2009, 06:03:17 PM » |
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Maybe it didn't happen that way, before? Seems like Ben didn't believe Keamy would shoot Alex based on something happening in the "past"...could be Dan had no reason to believe Eloise would be shooting him in the back.
I admit it, I am absolutely confused with the time travel tangles.
I'm just following the plot at this point and skimming over what seems like a "paradox."
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joshzam
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« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2009, 10:43:01 PM » |
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What did she write in the front of the book? Something like if you remember anything, remember that I love you.... or something to that effect. Meaning, you may not remember anything else you read in this (already filled out) manuel, just remember I love you.
I believe the manual was already full of his (maybe some of her?) notes relating to time travel.
She wrote "No matter what, remember I will always love you" and the book was brand new - crisp white pages and the spine wasn't even broken. When we see it later all filled out on the Island, it's dirty, pages are ripped, and it's bent out of shape (well used). I doubt his mom gave it to him with anything substantial inside. |
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RM
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« Reply #32 on: May 01, 2009, 07:13:01 AM » |
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In 2004, Daniel's mind is so fried he needs a caretaker. He has clearly experimented on himself (in an effort to go back and prevent whatever went wrong with Theresa?) He knows exactly what Desmond is experiencing because he has been through it himself. So I would say that he has written himself some notes about what will-happen/has-happened in that notebook. He may realize at some point that he will begin to have memory problems and so does the Memento thing to remind himself of what he should already know -- remember the note to self that Desmond will be his Constant; he clearly expects to lose his mind at some point.
Do Charles and Eloise really believe that the healing properties of the Island will help Daniel get better? Maybe so since they encounter a lucid Daniel in 1954 and in 1977. So they aren't really just lying to him to get him onto the Island to fulfill his destiny; there's some truth/benevolence in their motives as well.
Daniel's journal is on his dead body, right? So clearly the Others will read it and go through it. Is that how it ends up in Ben's possession and is on his deserted desk when Caesar is going through it? Is Daniel's notebook the way Ben seems to know everything that is "supposed to" happen?
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grizn0
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« Reply #33 on: May 01, 2009, 08:14:20 AM » |
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Jack ends up with the notebook somehow.
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The Penguin
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« Reply #34 on: May 04, 2009, 02:21:24 PM » |
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Maybe it didn't happen that way, before? Seems like Ben didn't believe Keamy would shoot Alex based on something happening in the "past"...could be Dan had no reason to believe Eloise would be shooting him in the back.
I admit it, I am absolutely confused with the time travel tangles.
I'm just following the plot at this point and skimming over what seems like a "paradox."
I think it happened that way all along. Remember at the hospital when Widmore is talking about sacrifice? She says something to the effect of "don't tell me about sacrifice! I've just sent my son back to that island knowing..." Sounds to me like she knew she was going too kill him. |
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Chuckie
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« Reply #35 on: May 04, 2009, 03:42:24 PM » |
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[Suddenly, there is a loud crash behind the bench Ms. Hawking and Desmond have been sitting on. Some scaffolding has fallen and killed the man with red shoes.]
DESMOND: Oh, my God. You knew that was going to happen, didn't you? [she nods] Then why didn't you stop it? Why didn't you do anything?
MS. HAWKING: Because it wouldn't matter. Had I warned him about the scaffolding tomorrow he'd be hit by a taxi. If I warned him about the taxi, he'd fall in the shower and break his neck. The universe, unfortunately, has a way of course correcting. That man was supposed to die. That was his path just as it's your path to go to the island. You don't do it because you choose to, Desmond. You do it because you're supposed to.
I think this conversation, from Flashes Before Your Eyes, is the beginning of Eloise's story, and "For the first time in a long time, I don't have any idea what's going to happen" is the end of that same story.
I think that Eloise pushed Daniel so hard to be a physicist, and stop thinking about girls, and stop ****ing with the piano, not because she knew it was her destiny to shoot him. She did this because she knew that one day, he would figure out time travel, and how to manipulate time. She also knew, of course, that she was going to shoot her son. However, I think for the last 30 years, Mrs. Hawking has been traveling through time herself, trying to fix her mistake. Once Daniel got all his knowledge, and Mrs. Hawking learned everything she could from how the Island works, this is how she's spent every moment. Trying to go back and change her mistake. That's how she knows about "course correction" and is so ambivalent toward the Man With The Red Shoes. If you're dead, you're dead. No matter what. If you go to an island to press a button, that's what you do. If you shoot your son, that's what you do. No matter what.
But once they...jiggled the handle on the island, her ability to Time Travel stopped. Something went wrong. So now she's going to have to find out what happens next. She knew that in 2007, her son would die at her hand. So for those 30 years, she hopped back and forth in time, trying to change what happened. Trying to make any change that would correct her mistake.
Sorry if this doesn't make a lot of sense. There's not a lot of Mrs Hawking talking to try and pick subtleties and nuance out of. There are only a couple episodes where WOEH (Wise Old Eloise Hawking) has much to say. But I think that conversation with Desmond tells us more about her, than it does about him.
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Kenny Rogers
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« Reply #36 on: May 06, 2009, 05:59:21 PM » |
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Well, if you think about it, she gave him the book not long before he goes off on the freighter. he doesn't have a good memory then, so if he read the whole book he could have forgot it. but it seemed to me, (and i have posted this a few times in the beginning of the season) that he kept referring to the book at odd times, (like when Charlotte came over to give him a mango right before they were shot with flaming arrows). like it was a manual. it is very possible that he only read things right before they happened. step by step. until he went to Ann arbor and could read the whole thing. it's kind of hard to read a book while flashing through time and running from flaming arrows etc etc...
this is all maybes and could Be's. it's still early after the episode. so no kinks are worked out yet, really.
As I remember she gave him the notebook at the lunch after his graduation, He seemed pretty sane at that point, telling her she was very rude to teresa. Yes, it was at lunch after he received his PHD at Oxford. He told her about his research grant from Charles Widmore. He was quite sane, since he hadn't even started his experiments yet, let alone tested it on himself. I had the impression that apart from the note from his mother inside the cover, the pages of the book were blank. It certainly didn't look like the dog-eared book he had with him when he was killed. |
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grizn0
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« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2009, 08:55:15 AM » |
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Well, if you think about it, she gave him the book not long before he goes off on the freighter. he doesn't have a good memory then, so if he read the whole book he could have forgot it. but it seemed to me, (and i have posted this a few times in the beginning of the season) that he kept referring to the book at odd times, (like when Charlotte came over to give him a mango right before they were shot with flaming arrows). like it was a manual. it is very possible that he only read things right before they happened. step by step. until he went to Ann arbor and could read the whole thing. it's kind of hard to read a book while flashing through time and running from flaming arrows etc etc...
this is all maybes and could Be's. it's still early after the episode. so no kinks are worked out yet, really.
As I remember she gave him the notebook at the lunch after his graduation, He seemed pretty sane at that point, telling her she was very rude to teresa. Yes, it was at lunch after he received his PHD at Oxford. He told her about his research grant from Charles Widmore. He was quite sane, since he hadn't even started his experiments yet, let alone tested it on himself. I had the impression that apart from the note from his mother inside the cover, the pages of the book were blank. It certainly didn't look like the dog-eared book he had with him when he was killed. But it was, as we saw last night. |
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BobBX542
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« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2009, 10:48:52 AM » |
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Well, if you think about it, she gave him the book not long before he goes off on the freighter. he doesn't have a good memory then, so if he read the whole book he could have forgot it. but it seemed to me, (and i have posted this a few times in the beginning of the season) that he kept referring to the book at odd times, (like when Charlotte came over to give him a mango right before they were shot with flaming arrows). like it was a manual. it is very possible that he only read things right before they happened. step by step. until he went to Ann arbor and could read the whole thing. it's kind of hard to read a book while flashing through time and running from flaming arrows etc etc...
this is all maybes and could Be's. it's still early after the episode. so no kinks are worked out yet, really.
As I remember she gave him the notebook at the lunch after his graduation, He seemed pretty sane at that point, telling her she was very rude to teresa. Yes, it was at lunch after he received his PHD at Oxford. He told her about his research grant from Charles Widmore. He was quite sane, since he hadn't even started his experiments yet, let alone tested it on himself. I had the impression that apart from the note from his mother inside the cover, the pages of the book were blank. It certainly didn't look like the dog-eared book he had with him when he was killed. But it was, as we saw last night. Wait, are you saying that the notebook that Young Eloise took off of Daniel is the exact same one that Old Eloise gave Daniel after he graduated?? Words/writing and all?? |
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"So, go ahead and tighten those skull screws 2 Notches below excruciating, or else the power won't transfer to the drill."
God I Hate Michael So Much.
I danced a Jig when Michael Died, and again when Juliette hit bottom.
WTF Would Jesus Do??
I love validation.
NEPTUNE IS MY COPILOT!!!
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grizn0
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« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2009, 10:55:27 AM » |
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Well, if you think about it, she gave him the book not long before he goes off on the freighter. he doesn't have a good memory then, so if he read the whole book he could have forgot it. but it seemed to me, (and i have posted this a few times in the beginning of the season) that he kept referring to the book at odd times, (like when Charlotte came over to give him a mango right before they were shot with flaming arrows). like it was a manual. it is very possible that he only read things right before they happened. step by step. until he went to Ann arbor and could read the whole thing. it's kind of hard to read a book while flashing through time and running from flaming arrows etc etc...
this is all maybes and could Be's. it's still early after the episode. so no kinks are worked out yet, really.
As I remember she gave him the notebook at the lunch after his graduation, He seemed pretty sane at that point, telling her she was very rude to teresa. Yes, it was at lunch after he received his PHD at Oxford. He told her about his research grant from Charles Widmore. He was quite sane, since he hadn't even started his experiments yet, let alone tested it on himself. I had the impression that apart from the note from his mother inside the cover, the pages of the book were blank. It certainly didn't look like the dog-eared book he had with him when he was killed. But it was, as we saw last night. Wait, are you saying that the notebook that Young Eloise took off of Daniel is the exact same one that Old Eloise gave Daniel after he graduated?? Words/writing and all?? Yeah... thats what I got out of it. Of course, when she gives it to him at the lunch it is empty. |
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BobBX542
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« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2009, 03:12:25 PM » |
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Yeah... thats what I got out of it. Of course, when she gives it to him at the lunch it is empty.
Oh, whew, I thought I was misunderstanding you. I thought you meant that she gave Daniel the book with all of the stuff already written in it. |
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"So, go ahead and tighten those skull screws 2 Notches below excruciating, or else the power won't transfer to the drill."
God I Hate Michael So Much.
I danced a Jig when Michael Died, and again when Juliette hit bottom.
WTF Would Jesus Do??
I love validation.
NEPTUNE IS MY COPILOT!!!
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grizn0
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« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2009, 03:14:52 PM » |
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Yeah... thats what I got out of it. Of course, when she gives it to him at the lunch it is empty.
Oh, whew, I thought I was misunderstanding you. I thought you meant that she gave Daniel the book with all of the stuff already written in it. No no not at all. That would make no sense. I mean, sometimes I know I don't make much sense (the whole Sawyer thing from last night haha), but for the most part I think I do. |
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BobBX542
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« Reply #42 on: May 08, 2009, 11:51:00 AM » |
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Yeah... thats what I got out of it. Of course, when she gives it to him at the lunch it is empty.
Oh, whew, I thought I was misunderstanding you. I thought you meant that she gave Daniel the book with all of the stuff already written in it. No no not at all. That would make no sense. I mean, sometimes I know I don't make much sense (the whole Sawyer thing from last night haha), but for the most part I think I do. Normally. LOL |
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"So, go ahead and tighten those skull screws 2 Notches below excruciating, or else the power won't transfer to the drill."
God I Hate Michael So Much.
I danced a Jig when Michael Died, and again when Juliette hit bottom.
WTF Would Jesus Do??
I love validation.
NEPTUNE IS MY COPILOT!!!
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grizn0
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« Reply #43 on: May 08, 2009, 01:22:52 PM » |
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Yeah... thats what I got out of it. Of course, when she gives it to him at the lunch it is empty.
Oh, whew, I thought I was misunderstanding you. I thought you meant that she gave Daniel the book with all of the stuff already written in it. No no not at all. That would make no sense. I mean, sometimes I know I don't make much sense (the whole Sawyer thing from last night haha), but for the most part I think I do. Normally. LOL That is my "normal" mind though  |
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lostlady
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« Reply #44 on: May 09, 2009, 10:35:45 PM » |
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Maybe Eloise doesn't know what will happen anymore because not everyone got on the plane like they were supposed to. (Aaron and Desmond for example). She had said that if everyone who was on the island didn't get on flight 316 things would not work out right (or something to that effect)
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