Author Topic: "For the first time in a long time..."  (Read 8835 times)

Offline MachThree

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"For the first time in a long time..."
« on: April 30, 2009, 02:59:47 AM »
"For the first time in a long time, I don't know what's going to happen next" -- Eloise Hawking

Does this mean Jack, Kate, or one of the other 815'ers gives 1977 Eloise a brain dump and tells her everything that happened up until the point where they left the future and headed back to 1977 (which would have been right before this scene)?  Is *that* how she knows so much?

Offline jamesl

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Re: "For the first time in a long time..."
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2009, 03:04:57 AM »
how does she know what she knows ?
for instance, how did she know the guy with red shoes was going to die ?
there was no one to have told her that

unless she's somehow like Desmond,
he knew Charlie was going to get struck by lightning and was going to drown
maybe something affected them and allowed them to see certain things

Offline MachThree

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Re: "For the first time in a long time..."
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2009, 03:06:30 AM »
how does she know what she knows ?
for instance, how did she know the guy with red shoes was going to die ?
there was no one to have told her that

unless she's somehow like Desmond,
he knew Charlie was going to get struck by lightning and was going to drown
maybe something affected them and allowed them to see certain things

You might be right - it just struck me as interesting that right after the 815'ers head back to the past is when she says this - as if her knowledge of what was coming ceased when they left.

Offline jamesl

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Re: "For the first time in a long time..."
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2009, 03:08:05 AM »
when did Daniel figure out his mother was one of The Hostiles ?

Offline Mrs Hume

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Re: "For the first time in a long time..."
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2009, 04:16:46 AM »


when did Daniel figure out his mother was one of The Hostiles ?

well, maybe he wrote it in his little black book in the future or past or whatever.

I think she has done or seen this already and now that they are in 1977 changing things she now doesn't know what is going to happen.
or maybe all these yrs she was trying to change the fact that she was going to shoot him. but now she's stopped.

Offline razzle-dazzle

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Re: "For the first time in a long time..."
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2009, 04:27:57 AM »
Considering Jack and Kate are there when Dan gets shot, I suspect Jack tells Ellie a few things. Between that and Dan's book, she has a good idea of what happens.

I just don't get how she knows that the guy with the shoes dies in Flashes. She seemed to know a lot about Desmond.
It also seems like Ellie and Charles plotted to screw Des's life up to get him to the Island. I hope Des, Penny and little Charlie sail off and live happily ever after.

Offline Mrs Hume

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Re: "For the first time in a long time..."
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2009, 04:44:00 AM »
Considering Jack and Kate are there when Dan gets shot, I suspect Jack tells Ellie a few things. Between that and Dan's book, she has a good idea of what happens.

I just don't get how she knows that the guy with the shoes dies in Flashes. She seemed to know a lot about Desmond.
It also seems like Ellie and Charles plotted to screw Des's life up to get him to the Island. I hope Des, Penny and little Charlie sail off and live happily ever after.
Maybe in the hope that Desmond will push the button and finally not cause the plane to crash which would then lead to Widmore not finding the island and then not sending Dan to his demise. each time it happends Eloise tries to change it. and each time she fails. there are probably so many holes in that train of thinking.  I don't know yet. it's still Wednesday and I have to marinate in all the info we got tonight. Then I can see things more clear. Wednesday night posting for me is always bad.

Offline WhatThe

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Re: "For the first time in a long time..."
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2009, 04:58:44 AM »
when did Daniel figure out his mother was one of The Hostiles ?


I'm guessing that he discovered something while he was off the island and in Ann Arbor...we still don't know how she became a Hostile, so maybe Daniel researched his mom's whereabouts while in Ann Arbor, and saw a younger photo of her...remembered seeing her back in 1954..and said "Oh, sh*t!" lol...

Offline Mrs Hume

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Re: "For the first time in a long time..."
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2009, 05:06:47 AM »
I still think that she , Eloise, wrote it all in the book after shooting Dan. maybe Dan told her the whole story through miles or jack and the others told her the whole story and she wrote it all in the journal. do we know if the journal she gave him was empty? i don't think so.
so everyone told her everthing that has happened to them up until 2007/8. that is why she doesn't know anymore future things now. because she was only told what happened up till now (2007) .

Offline WhatThe

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Re: "For the first time in a long time..."
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2009, 05:10:54 AM »
I still think that she , Eloise, wrote it all in the book after shooting Dan. maybe Dan told her the whole story through miles or jack and the others told her the whole story and she wrote it all in the journal. do we know if the journal she gave him was empty? i don't think so.
so everyone told her everthing that has happened to them up until 2007/8. that is why she doesn't know anymore future things now. because she was only told what happened up till now (2007) .

But what would have caused him to NOT realize she was his mom when he was back in 1954, though? In Daniel's relative timeline, he would have already received her notes about her being a Hostile in his book even though in HER timeline she had not written it yet.

Offline Mrs Hume

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Re: "For the first time in a long time..."
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2009, 05:19:33 AM »
Well, if you think about it, she gave him the book not long before he goes off on the freighter. he doesn't have a good memory then, so if he read the whole book he could have forgot it. but it seemed to me, (and i have posted this a few times in the beginning of the season) that he kept referring to the book at odd times, (like when Charlotte came over to give him a mango right before they were shot with flaming arrows). like it was a manual. it is very possible that he only read things right before they happened. step by step. until he went to Ann arbor and could read the whole thing. it's kind of hard to read a book while flashing through time and running from flaming arrows etc etc...
this is all maybes and could Be's. it's still early after the episode. so no kinks are worked out yet, really.

Offline WhatThe

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Re: "For the first time in a long time..."
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2009, 05:24:52 AM »
Well, if you think about it, she gave him the book not long before he goes off on the freighter. he doesn't have a good memory then, so if he read the whole book he could have forgot it. but it seemed to me, (and i have posted this a few times in the beginning of the season) that he kept referring to the book at odd times, (like when Charlotte came over to give him a mango right before they were shot with flaming arrows). like it was a manual. it is very possible that he only read things right before they happened. step by step. until he went to Ann arbor and could read the whole thing. it's kind of hard to read a book while flashing through time and running from flaming arrows etc etc...
this is all maybes and could Be's. it's still early after the episode. so no kinks are worked out yet, really.


I like the manual/step-by-step idea. Kind of reminds me of the movie "Primer", where  (SPOILER) one of the characters at the end was following his own notes that his future self left his present self on an audio tape.

Offline Mrs Hume

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Re: "For the first time in a long time..."
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2009, 06:06:48 AM »
it could be that she wrote it or he wrote it but either way it would be like the first time he is seeing it since his memory was so bad.
yeah, it was my first impression. and you know what they say about first impressions! lol
check out. hmmm, for some reason ABC doesn't have "the lie" they only have episodes 11 through 14 which is very strange.  ???
well, "the lie" right before they are torched by flaming arrows and jughead is very interesting, even more so now.

Offline WhatThe

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Re: "For the first time in a long time..."
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2009, 06:58:00 AM »
it could be that she wrote it or he wrote it but either way it would be like the first time he is seeing it since his memory was so bad.
yeah, it was my first impression. and you know what they say about first impressions! lol
check out. hmmm, for some reason ABC doesn't have "the lie" they only have episodes 11 through 14 which is very strange.  ???
well, "the lie" right before they are torched by flaming arrows and jughead is very interesting, even more so now.

In "The Lie", right when Charlotte approaches Daniel and says "Hi", he says "hold on a second", looks into his book, then puts it down. What stands out is that he was not reading it when she walked up, so it does kinda hint at what you were saying about him treating it like a manual and approaching it with a step-by-step guide to what's happening in his life. So, yeah, it very well may have already been filled in when his mother gave it to him, the only change to it being her inscription in the front.

I didn't watch "Jughead" again, but one thing that I thought about after watching tonight's episode was how easily Daniel reached his conclusions about there being a bomb and about what the Hostiles thought he, Charlotte and Miles were. With what we know now, it may not have simply been smart deduction, but instead could have been foreknowledge.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 06:59:42 AM by WhatThe »

Offline Mrs Hume

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Re: "For the first time in a long time..."
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2009, 07:05:07 AM »
it could be that she wrote it or he wrote it but either way it would be like the first time he is seeing it since his memory was so bad.
yeah, it was my first impression. and you know what they say about first impressions! lol
check out. hmmm, for some reason ABC doesn't have "the lie" they only have episodes 11 through 14 which is very strange.  ???
well, "the lie" right before they are torched by flaming arrows and jughead is very interesting, even more so now.

In "The Lie", right when Charlotte approaches Daniel and says "Hi", he says "hold on a second", looks into his book, then puts it down. What stands out is that he was not reading it when she walked up, so it does kinda hint at what you were saying about him treating it like a manual and approaching it with a step-by-step guide to what's happening in his life. So, yeah, it very well may have already been filled in when his mother gave it to him, the only change to it being her inscription in the front.

I didn't watch "Jughead" again, but one thing that I thought about after watching tonight's episode was how easily Daniel reached his conclusions about there being a bomb and about what the Hostiles thought he, Charlotte and Miles were. With what we know now, it may not have simply been smart deduction, but instead could have been foreknowledge.
Yes!!  ;That is exactly the scene in which i was referring too!!! from the very start i thought that strange.
and yes I agree with you on your second paragraph as well! although I'm sure we'll find some holes in this or someone else will. like why did it take 3 yrs to come back if he knew all this or did he have to wait until now to come back because this is what it said to do in the book. oh with new answers are always so many new questions.  ::) ahhhh  lol