Author Topic: Eloise's reasons  (Read 14695 times)

Offline GUTZandRAGE

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Re: Eloise's reasons
« Reply #75 on: April 30, 2009, 06:03:36 PM »
There's no dispute about why he shot him. But he shot an unarmed man in cold blood. It's just the way it happened. And if he really is so upset about Walt and the raft and everything else, why hasn't he shot Ben, who did a whole lot worse?

Cold blood is cold blood.

Offline TheBrightandTheDark

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Re: Eloise's reasons
« Reply #76 on: April 30, 2009, 06:25:41 PM »
Wait a minute, sorry, I need to go back to the freighter blowing up... so Ben is the most responsible, even though Widmore set up the secondary protocol and shipped the explosives, and even though Keamy is the one who set it up? Uh-uh. Nope. I don't buy it. Keamy strapped that device to his bicep because he wanted to make sure that if he died, everybody died. Ben's motive was killing the man who killed his daughter. He would have killed Keamy whether or not it triggered the freighter explosion. So who's motive is more sinister? Keamy. All the way. But I'm still saying they're equally responsible, because if you take anyone out of the equation, the freighter wouldn't have blown.

I didn't think it was Tom who shot Sawyer on the raft, I thought it was one of the other Grogans? lol whoa...tom...sawyer... tom... sawyer....

*ahem* anyway...I think Sawyer did shoot Tom in cold blood. Just like he shot Frank Duckett. There wasn't any passion to it. It was cold and calculating. I agree that Hurley was trying to save his friends, crashing in with the Dharma van was meant to help. Wasn't it Hurley who told Sawyer, "But he surrendered..."  ?

Offline rhythm

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Re: Eloise's reasons
« Reply #77 on: April 30, 2009, 06:39:24 PM »
She probably had never done it until now. Since this was Dan's present, that must mean Dan had never died at the hands of his mother. It can be said his mother does not remember her killing him, but can foresee his imminent death. I know she told Penny she could not see what the future holds, but it's not above any of the Others to simply lie to people, regardless of the situation.

The only reason that doesn't jive for me is that Widmore clearly remembered Locke being on the Island in the 50's.  So if that truly took place, then why wouldn't her shooting Daniel have taken place?

It may be Daniel's present, but his present is taking place in his mother's past.  Therefore (and here is where you really have to bend your mind into a Mobius strip) she shot her son before she had him (her present) but he was not shot until he had become an adult (his present).  When dealing with time travel (and BTW ha, ha Juggy - you were wrong) each person has their own linear time which intersects with others' linear times at different points of time.  OK, it sounds like gibberish but it's late, and it would be easier to understand if I could draw a picture.

Um, hunh?  Were you responding to me or GutzandRage?

Offline Mrs Hume

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Re: Eloise's reasons
« Reply #78 on: April 30, 2009, 06:41:54 PM »
 and the points keep a comin! lol

she was probably responding to anyone who thinks Ben is the most evil.  We don't think he is any worse than any other person trying to get what they want accomplished. (in lost that is.not in real life lol)

Offline GUTZandRAGE

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Re: Eloise's reasons
« Reply #79 on: April 30, 2009, 06:47:27 PM »
Who is to say what Widmore ordered. Maybe at one point Keamy decided to run the show himself. After all, he was in the middle of nowhere, and he wasn't exactly in the armed forces. He was a gun for hire.

And, Ben is not the only one to blame, no, but he is to blame. If you want to pass the blame along then no one is responsible for anything.

Offline TheBrightandTheDark

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Re: Eloise's reasons
« Reply #80 on: April 30, 2009, 06:53:23 PM »
Who is to say what Widmore ordered. Maybe at one point Keamy decided to run the show himself. After all, he was in the middle of nowhere, and he wasn't exactly in the armed forces. He was a gun for hire.

And, Ben is not the only one to blame, no, but he is to blame. If you want to pass the blame along then no one is responsible for anything.
No, Ben is to blame, I agree. So is Widmore and Keamy. I'm not trying to pass the blame, I'm trying to catch everybody who had a hand in it and spread it out properly.....if that makes sense.  :-\

And the secondary protocol was ordered by Widmore, I believe. Of course, you're right, there's no way to know if five thousand pounds of C4 and a pulse-sensitive detonator were in those orders, but we do know for sure that getting Ben no matter the cost was part of that protocol. And if Widmore just let Keamy loose, then, he had to have known what would happen, too. Even Ben knows what a malicious guy Keamy is, and if Ben knows, I'd bet Widmore knows, too.

Offline GUTZandRAGE

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Re: Eloise's reasons
« Reply #81 on: April 30, 2009, 06:54:05 PM »
They are all bastards!

Offline Mrs Hume

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Re: Eloise's reasons
« Reply #82 on: April 30, 2009, 06:58:45 PM »
Who is to say what Widmore ordered. Maybe at one point Keamy decided to run the show himself. After all, he was in the middle of nowhere, and he wasn't exactly in the armed forces. He was a gun for hire.

And, Ben is not the only one to blame, no, but he is to blame. If you want to pass the blame along then no one is responsible for anything.
well that is actually the point! everyone just pins the blame on evil Ben.  Widmore didn't Deny killing or ordering the killing of his daughter or the whole island when Ben confronted him on changing the rules though. if it wasn't for widmore, non of this would be happening. so i blame widmore and him only. and that's what I think of that  humf ;D (lol)

Offline vickilynn

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Re: Eloise's reasons
« Reply #83 on: April 30, 2009, 06:59:03 PM »
They are all bastards!

One comment I can agree with (and understand)!

Offline TheBrightandTheDark

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Re: Eloise's reasons
« Reply #84 on: April 30, 2009, 06:59:16 PM »
They are all bastards!
100% agree, Gutz&Rage! Wanna hug it out? lol

Offline Mrs Hume

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Re: Eloise's reasons
« Reply #85 on: April 30, 2009, 07:00:47 PM »
hiccup, ....did someone say hug?.... hiccup (((Mrs A!!!  ;))))

Offline GUTZandRAGE

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Re: Eloise's reasons
« Reply #86 on: April 30, 2009, 07:00:56 PM »
They are all bastards!

One comment I can agree with (and understand)!

Ouch...

Offline TheBrightandTheDark

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Re: Eloise's reasons
« Reply #87 on: April 30, 2009, 07:03:04 PM »
They are all bastards!
One comment I can agree with (and understand)!
Ouch...
Nah, I think vickilynn means in general, not you specifically, G&R...


(((((MRS H!)))))  ((((((G&R!)))))  (((((VICKILYNN!!)))))   Whew, Mrs H, how many drinks have you had? Here, dear, let's try to stand you up straight, lol!

Offline vickilynn

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Re: Eloise's reasons
« Reply #88 on: April 30, 2009, 07:05:26 PM »
They are all bastards!

One comment I can agree with (and understand)!

Ouch...

Oh...I didn't mean the only comment of YOURS that I can agree with (((G&R)))
I keep coming back to these threads and can't get my head around most of the posts...time travel is too convoluted for my brain!

Offline TheBrightandTheDark

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Re: Eloise's reasons
« Reply #89 on: April 30, 2009, 07:07:34 PM »
They are all bastards!
One comment I can agree with (and understand)!
Ouch...
Oh...I didn't mean the only comment of YOURS that I can agree with (((G&R)))
I keep coming back to these threads and can't get my head around most of the posts...time travel is too convoluted for my brain!
Yeah, I have to admit, I was utterly confused last night.