Author Topic: Eloise's reasons  (Read 10272 times)

Offline rhythm

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Re: Eloise's reasons
« Reply #105 on: May 01, 2009, 05:45:45 PM »
lol
I was really confused.  Thanks.

Offline MangoBingo

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Re: Eloise's reasons
« Reply #106 on: May 01, 2009, 06:45:50 PM »
The last thing that Daniel told Jack and Kate, was that he believed his hypothesis about the past being unchangeable to be incorrect...

Jack and Kate are bound to speak to someone about this revelation at some point...

Eloise will eventually learn that her future son believed that the past could be changed...

So, why then set him upon the path which leads to him being killed?



Because it already happened. Using your theory, if she didn't send him on that path, then she wouldn't have known to send him on that path.

Um... No. Using my theory (which has always been "what if the past can be changed?") Eloise could have nurtured little Daniel's desire to be a concert pianist, instead of a quantum physicist. Any prior remembrance of shooting her adult son in 1977 would have been nothing more than false memory syndrome.

Offline Novashannon

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Re: Eloise's reasons
« Reply #107 on: May 02, 2009, 09:07:49 PM »
The last thing that Daniel told Jack and Kate, was that he believed his hypothesis about the past being unchangeable to be incorrect...

Jack and Kate are bound to speak to someone about this revelation at some point...

Eloise will eventually learn that her future son believed that the past could be changed...

So, why then set him upon the path which leads to him being killed?



Because it already happened. Using your theory, if she didn't send him on that path, then she wouldn't have known to send him on that path.

Um... No. Using my theory (which has always been "what if the past can be changed?") Eloise could have nurtured little Daniel's desire to be a concert pianist, instead of a quantum physicist. Any prior remembrance of shooting her adult son in 1977 would have been nothing more than false memory syndrome.
If the ewhatever hap[ened,happened theory is true, then Dan would have had something else happen to turn him to the sciences.  We seemed to see that with the many averted deaths of Charlie.

Offline BobBX542

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Re: Eloise's reasons
« Reply #108 on: May 04, 2009, 04:21:30 PM »
The last thing that Daniel told Jack and Kate, was that he believed his hypothesis about the past being unchangeable to be incorrect...

Jack and Kate are bound to speak to someone about this revelation at some point...

Eloise will eventually learn that her future son believed that the past could be changed...

So, why then set him upon the path which leads to him being killed?



Because it already happened. Using your theory, if she didn't send him on that path, then she wouldn't have known to send him on that path.

Um... No. Using my theory (which has always been "what if the past can be changed?") Eloise could have nurtured little Daniel's desire to be a concert pianist, instead of a quantum physicist. Any prior remembrance of shooting her adult son in 1977 would have been nothing more than false memory syndrome.

Okay, I see what you're saying now, but the problem I see there is that if Daniel were to have become a concert pianist, then why would she have learned that her future son thought the past could be changed??

Offline MangoBingo

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Re: Eloise's reasons
« Reply #109 on: May 04, 2009, 09:32:36 PM »
Okay, I see what you're saying now, but the problem I see there is that if Daniel were to have become a concert pianist, then why would she have learned that her future son thought the past could be changed??

Because the Daniel Faraday we all know still existed, up until the point she shot him.

Offline MangoBingo

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Re: Eloise's reasons
« Reply #110 on: May 04, 2009, 09:43:20 PM »
p.s. I was washing some dishes this evening and was wondering about Hawking coercing Daniel into going to the Island and blah, blah, blah - and I had a really good theory - but I've forgotten most of it now. It was something like this...

Why didn't she tell Jack that he'd be in 1977 when he arrived back at the Island?

I was wondering if having Jack and Kate deliver Daniel to the Others camp is a differing turn of events from a pre-established timeline in which she still shot her future son, but in an alternate (now erased) timeline, he died because Jack and Kate weren't nearby.

Maybe Ms. Hawking is trying to change the past slightly and when Desmond was shot, she blamed herself so much because of her "meddling". She might have felt responsible because of a "ripple effect" from her attempts to change that one event. Maybe Daniel lives? Maybe that's why she now doesn't know what the future's going to be, because she's purposefully tried to alter things?

Offline vickilynn

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Re: Eloise's reasons
« Reply #111 on: May 04, 2009, 10:40:54 PM »
p.s. I was washing some dishes this evening and was wondering about Hawking coercing Daniel into going to the Island and blah, blah, blah - and I had a really good theory - but I've forgotten most of it now. It was something like this...

Why didn't she tell Jack that he'd be in 1977 when he arrived back at the Island?

I was wondering if having Jack and Kate deliver Daniel to the Others camp is a differing turn of events from a pre-established timeline in which she still shot her future son, but in an alternate (now erased) timeline, he died because Jack and Kate weren't nearby.

Maybe Ms. Hawking is trying to change the past slightly and when Desmond was shot, she blamed herself so much because of her "meddling". She might have felt responsible because of a "ripple effect" from her attempts to change that one event. Maybe Daniel lives? Maybe that's why she now doesn't know what the future's going to be, because she's purposefully tried to alter things?

Mango...you have the best theories! (Oh wait...different thread :) )
Seriously...I didn't think of the consequences of Jack and Kate being there now. Thanks for the illumination! (I actually thought of you this weekend when I was shopping at Tyson's Corner. There is a store there called MNG by MANGO and it made me think of you!)

Offline Des

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Re: Eloise's reasons
« Reply #112 on: May 05, 2009, 11:23:34 AM »

That according to me Ellie's path is not only determined by what Jack and Kate are going to tell her, but there is more
that she can do or knows, because Dan says that she can bring them back to 2008, before she ever meets Jack and Kate.


Perhaps, although I thought Dan wanted to find Ellie because he knew that she would know where Jughead was buried. There could definitely be more to it then that though.

Offline Shivy

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Re: Eloise's reasons
« Reply #113 on: May 05, 2009, 01:40:39 PM »
Eloise said that for the first time, she does not know what's going to happen now.  I think she means that, her whole life (from the time in 1977 that she shot an intruder into their camp) that she was going to have a son, that he was going to be a gifted physicist, that he was going to travel through time, and that she was going to shoot him in 1977 on the island.  She did all in her power, all her life, to put things into place such that this chain of events would be followed... apparently (as someone else said above) because she is convinced that what happened, happened, and cannot be changed.  So in a sense, until she sent the Oceanic 6 back to the island, she always knew what was coming.  (I don't think she could see the future; she knew only what she had surmised by Daniel's appearance in 1977.)  Now, however, since the Oceanic 6 have been sent back, she no longer has any idea what the future (her future, in 2007) holds.

ITA with this, this is how i saw her statement

Offline Shivy

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Re: Eloise's reasons
« Reply #114 on: May 05, 2009, 04:30:01 PM »
Maybe she had to send him back to get shot because it does lead to saving people on and off the island.  And maybe he needed to get shot so that 815 would crash and the losties would help to save the island (and the universe) in the war that's coming.  She knew Danielle needed to be shot by her in order for certain events to happen for the world to be saved- she made the ultimate sacrafice. 

Offline BobBX542

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Re: Eloise's reasons
« Reply #115 on: May 05, 2009, 04:57:16 PM »
Okay, I see what you're saying now, but the problem I see there is that if Daniel were to have become a concert pianist, then why would she have learned that her future son thought the past could be changed??

Because the Daniel Faraday we all know still existed, up until the point she shot him.

But she wouldn't have shot him if he didn't go back.

Offline MangoBingo

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Re: Eloise's reasons
« Reply #116 on: May 05, 2009, 07:26:30 PM »
Okay, I see what you're saying now, but the problem I see there is that if Daniel were to have become a concert pianist, then why would she have learned that her future son thought the past could be changed??

Because the Daniel Faraday we all know still existed, up until the point she shot him.

But she wouldn't have shot him if he didn't go back.

Two Daniels... A future Daniel (the Daniel the audience knows) and a new Daniel we've never known. That's the thing with alternate dimensions caused by altering past timelines... They're alternate!

Offline MangoBingo

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Re: Eloise's reasons
« Reply #117 on: May 05, 2009, 07:28:20 PM »
I actually thought of you this weekend when I was shopping at Tyson's Corner. There is a store there called MNG by MANGO and it made me think of you!

That's so sweet!!!

I have no idea what Tyson's Corner is though. Is that something to do with Tyson's Chicken?  ???

Offline vickilynn

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Re: Eloise's reasons
« Reply #118 on: May 05, 2009, 09:41:38 PM »
I actually thought of you this weekend when I was shopping at Tyson's Corner. There is a store there called MNG by MANGO and it made me think of you!

That's so sweet!!!

I have no idea what Tyson's Corner is though. Is that something to do with Tyson's Chicken?  ???

 ;D
Tyson's Corner is a Galleria in D.C. metro area...I did eat a chicken kabob for lunch there, does that count?

Offline BobBX542

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Re: Eloise's reasons
« Reply #119 on: May 06, 2009, 12:09:46 PM »
Okay, I see what you're saying now, but the problem I see there is that if Daniel were to have become a concert pianist, then why would she have learned that her future son thought the past could be changed??

Because the Daniel Faraday we all know still existed, up until the point she shot him.

But she wouldn't have shot him if he didn't go back.

Two Daniels... A future Daniel (the Daniel the audience knows) and a new Daniel we've never known. That's the thing with alternate dimensions caused by altering past timelines... They're alternate!

Ohhhhhhhh, okay, I see what you're saying. I was not thinking about alternate timelines. I was thinking about just the one. Okay then, nevermind all my nay saying earlier. I don't agree with the Alternate timeline theory, but at least now I know what you're getting at.