Author Topic: Eloise at the hospital  (Read 8788 times)

Offline grizn0

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Re: Eloise at the hospital
« Reply #30 on: April 30, 2009, 12:55:22 PM »
That is a change, yes. But all that would have done is ensure that if he didn't succeed in stopping the incident, she would surely die. So he covered his tracks on that one. A large scale change like stopping the incident would take presedence over a minor change like not talking to Charlotte.

Offline Des

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Re: Eloise at the hospital
« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2009, 01:03:13 PM »
I think though that even if he had NOT talked to Charlotte, the universe would have course corrected and something else would have caused her to grow up wanting to return to the island.

Offline Novashannon

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Re: Eloise at the hospital
« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2009, 01:07:07 PM »
I think though that even if he had NOT talked to Charlotte, the universe would have course corrected and something else would have caused her to grow up wanting to return to the island.
I agree.  But Daniel was trying to change the future, and I think that even a small change would have a ripple effect.

Offline grizn0

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Re: Eloise at the hospital
« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2009, 01:09:34 PM »
I think though that even if he had NOT talked to Charlotte, the universe would have course corrected and something else would have caused her to grow up wanting to return to the island.
I agree.  But Daniel was trying to change the future, and I think that even a small change would have a ripple effect.
In some time travel stories (like The Butterfly Effect) it does. But in others (like Back To The Future) only certain things will cause changes. Marty McFly interacted with a bunch of people in the past and probably made some small things happen a different way (like rocking out to Johnny be good at the end) but in the end his parents were still together in the future and he still existed. So, the question is, what type of time travel are we watching?

Offline Des

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Re: Eloise at the hospital
« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2009, 01:10:17 PM »
I think though that even if he had NOT talked to Charlotte, the universe would have course corrected and something else would have caused her to grow up wanting to return to the island.
I agree.  But Daniel was trying to change the future, and I think that even a small change would have a ripple effect.

What do you mean?

Offline userh6478

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Re: Eloise at the hospital
« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2009, 01:47:28 PM »
Its soo funnny how both Charles and Elosie seem to both generally seem to care, like mother and father would be..he must be something really special..

Offline Novashannon

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Re: Eloise at the hospital
« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2009, 02:12:31 PM »
I think though that even if he had NOT talked to Charlotte, the universe would have course corrected and something else would have caused her to grow up wanting to return to the island.
I agree.  But Daniel was trying to change the future, and I think that even a small change would have a ripple effect.

What do you mean?

TPTB have stipulated that whatever happened, happened, and I think they should stick to it.  But if Daniel believes that he can change things, then even a small change would change things. 
I will try to think of a good example, so bear with me.  Suppose you are going for a walk, and on the way out you notice that the dryer cycle has finished.  You decide that the laundry can wait till after your stroll, so you walk down the street at 8:05 and get caught in the middle of a gang shootout.  You get shot.  Now, suppose that you decide to fold the laundry before you go, because it will get less wrinkled that way and you also want to get to the bookstore to see your favorite author speak.  You fold the laundry, and put it away.  Now you are walking at 8:25 and the gangwar has finished, so you don't get shot.  that tiny difference of whether or not you fold the laundry has changed your life.

Offline RM

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Re: Eloise at the hospital
« Reply #37 on: May 01, 2009, 12:17:51 AM »
Well, Jack refused to help save Ben and let the Island's will be done.  Sayid thought he could change the past and kill Ben -- didn't take.  First, Daniel tells the time-jumpers they can't even interact with anyone who didn't remember meeting them before so nobody even tries.  Then, he comes back saying they really can change things -- he intervenes and tells Marvin Chang that adult Miles is his son from the future (but does this really change anything that didn't happen the first time around?)  He thinks he can change things, but goes ahead and gives Charlotte the warning anyway.  He thinks he's changing the past by going to see his mother in '77 but apparently is only fulfilling what happened the first time around.  No evidence yet that they really can change anything.

------

Eloise must talk to Jack and Kate in 1977 and find out that their return is the reason Dan comes back to the Island after leaving for the mainland in 1974.  So getting them on Ajira 316 in 2007 fulfills the last piece of foreknowledge that she has, completing the circle that leads to her shooting her own son.  "For the first time I don't know what's going to happen", to me, means that she's run out of foreknowledge based on previous interactions with time-jumpers.  Whether Desmond lives or dies is probably not part of anything else she knows about.

To me, all that "you're not supposed to leave" business that everybody kept telling the O6 is just because they still had time-jump interactions with Others in the past that hadn't taken place for them yet.  So they "had to" come back to the Island to fulfill what the Others feel like was always supposed to happen.


Offline LouE68

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Re: Eloise at the hospital
« Reply #38 on: May 01, 2009, 10:31:02 AM »
So what was Eloise doing at the hospital talking to Penny?   It doesn't make any sense to go and talk to Penny just to explain about Daniel being her son and Desmond wouldn't have been shot if he hadn't come to see her.  And I don't think it's a guilt thing... she has other stuff she could feel guilty about!   Maybe she wanted to know if Desmond would live.  He might have another part to play in the Island saga ??
Am I missing something...she's talking to Pen, then a black screen says 13 years earlier, Daniel climbing out of a sub, then them discussing being in 1977....1977+13 years is? 1990? what happened???

Offline grizn0

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Re: Eloise at the hospital
« Reply #39 on: May 01, 2009, 10:33:31 AM »
So what was Eloise doing at the hospital talking to Penny?   It doesn't make any sense to go and talk to Penny just to explain about Daniel being her son and Desmond wouldn't have been shot if he hadn't come to see her.  And I don't think it's a guilt thing... she has other stuff she could feel guilty about!   Maybe she wanted to know if Desmond would live.  He might have another part to play in the Island saga ??
Am I missing something...she's talking to Pen, then a black screen says 13 years earlier, Daniel climbing out of a sub, then them discussing being in 1977....1977+13 years is? 1990? what happened???
Pretty sure it said 30 years earlier...

Offline LouE68

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Re: Eloise at the hospital
« Reply #40 on: May 01, 2009, 10:35:52 AM »
So what was Eloise doing at the hospital talking to Penny?   It doesn't make any sense to go and talk to Penny just to explain about Daniel being her son and Desmond wouldn't have been shot if he hadn't come to see her.  And I don't think it's a guilt thing... she has other stuff she could feel guilty about!   Maybe she wanted to know if Desmond would live.  He might have another part to play in the Island saga ??
Am I missing something...she's talking to Pen, then a black screen says 13 years earlier, Daniel climbing out of a sub, then them discussing being in 1977....1977+13 years is? 1990? what happened???
Pretty sure it said 30 years earlier...
Ok whew, I thought I was losing it...just rewatched lol

Offline Des

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Re: Eloise at the hospital
« Reply #41 on: May 01, 2009, 10:40:26 AM »
I think though that even if he had NOT talked to Charlotte, the universe would have course corrected and something else would have caused her to grow up wanting to return to the island.
I agree.  But Daniel was trying to change the future, and I think that even a small change would have a ripple effect.

What do you mean?

TPTB have stipulated that whatever happened, happened, and I think they should stick to it.  But if Daniel believes that he can change things, then even a small change would change things. 
I will try to think of a good example, so bear with me.  Suppose you are going for a walk, and on the way out you notice that the dryer cycle has finished.  You decide that the laundry can wait till after your stroll, so you walk down the street at 8:05 and get caught in the middle of a gang shootout.  You get shot.  Now, suppose that you decide to fold the laundry before you go, because it will get less wrinkled that way and you also want to get to the bookstore to see your favorite author speak.  You fold the laundry, and put it away.  Now you are walking at 8:25 and the gangwar has finished, so you don't get shot.  that tiny difference of whether or not you fold the laundry has changed your life.

Oooh, makes perfect sense now. I work better with examples. Thanks.

Offline ukslim

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Re: Eloise at the hospital
« Reply #42 on: May 01, 2009, 10:54:11 AM »
that tiny difference of whether or not you fold the laundry has changed your life.

More movies to check out - Sliding Doors, and Run Lola Run.

(Spoilers  - not Lost spoilers - ahead)

Sliding Doors tells two versions of a romance. In one version of the story the heroine just gets on a train before the door closes, in the other she misses the train. All because of a tiny pause (can't remember, to do her shoelaces?). Her whole life unfolds differently.

Run Lola Run is about a girl racing from her flat to rescue her boyfriend. The story is retold several times, each time working out in a drastically different way because she handles tripping over a guy in the stairwell a different way.

But! Neither of these films discuss whether it's just "what if" or whether these are genuine alternate realities branching off. The Lost approach so far is that there is only one timeline, and you can't vary it.

Offline jamesl

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Re: Eloise at the hospital
« Reply #43 on: May 01, 2009, 12:09:43 PM »
Run Lola Run was freaking awesome !
its in german, so make sure you get the subtitled one and not the dubbed one,
it doesn't look right or sound right dubbed


Offline BobBX542

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Re: Eloise at the hospital
« Reply #44 on: May 01, 2009, 12:19:10 PM »
When we look at the amount of time Mrs. Hawking was at the hospital, she was really only there for what, 5 minutes?? To talk to Penny about why Desmond got shot, and basically give her a cryptic message about the island. As she leaves, she looked to me to have a very suspicious look on her face, so I think that she was baiting Desmond back to the island through Penny, and that as a matter of fact, she does know what's going to happen.