Author Topic: RIP Faraday  (Read 22545 times)

Offline tonysee200x

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Re: RIP Faraday
« Reply #60 on: April 30, 2009, 12:53:12 AM »
And what happens when Dan Faraday goes to the Island?

Everything only happened once and it happened the way we saw it, no circles, no loops.

The one time it happened Dan tried to change it. It did not happen once without Dan trying to change it and once with Dan trying to change it. ...at least that is the way they have set it up for us.

Now if someone is able to do something that changes things, and we see the same date happen twice with different events happening on the same date-- then I will change my mind.

Until then no paradox's have happened (Now if Dan killed his mother that would be a paradox)

Offline rhythm

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Re: RIP Faraday
« Reply #61 on: April 30, 2009, 12:54:45 AM »

And what happens when Ellie leaves the Island?

This is also a paradox of time......and is the most dangerous one because it is what effects us all. Points/Events that are connected that need one another to happen

What I am saying is if Dan is dead and Kate and Jack don't figure out how to stop the building of the swan then Dan always goes back.

Dan always goes back not because of fate or destiny because he does it again and again and again etc etc etc.......

In a way he is Prometheus

Boston:

Help me understand your theory.  

If Dan always goes back and flashes through time.  Winds up going to Ann Arbor then returns just days after Jack, Kate & the others end up on the island.  Then get Jack & Kate to take him to his mother and along the way divulges his plan to them, goes to the hostile camp, tells Richard what he told him tonight and gets shot by his mother.  Then let's assume Jack & Kate tell Eloise and Richard what Dan told them.  The Swan however still gets built and everything happens just as it always happend before...how is that a paradox?  

You state that "Dan always goes back...does it again and again", then how is that a paradox?  

You're confusing the heck out of me-lol

Offline GUTZandRAGE

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Re: RIP Faraday
« Reply #62 on: April 30, 2009, 12:55:41 AM »
Never mind. I read it all wrong. Got confused by the Red Sox logo...

Offline Bostonlost

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Re: RIP Faraday
« Reply #63 on: April 30, 2009, 01:18:41 AM »
It isn't a theory it is logic....


If that Hatch is built and Des goes to the Island and Dan is dead then that creates a circle......


Where my theory kicks in is that this has been going on for some time now and Ellie and Widmore are the because of this


Remember when she confronts Desmond she tells him "you don't buy the ring"

This wasn't a Jedi mind trick she has seen this before...... she has lived it before she sends Dan to the Island to die because she has in the past


Offline norville

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Re: RIP Faraday
« Reply #64 on: April 30, 2009, 01:21:22 AM »
There is no time loop, no circle, no time paradox.  The only loop is one of causation -- essentially, Ellie sent Daniel to the island BECAUSE Daniel had to be on the island BECAUSE Ellie shot him there BECAUSE Ellie sent Daniel to the island.  But a loop in causation is one thing, and a loop in time is something else.  There is no getting caught in a loop -- everything only happened once.  Each person's individual timeline, the journey of their consciousness from birth to death, has a beginning and an end.  No loops.

Now if Daniel's theory is true, and Jack & co. can indeed set off an explosion that will destroy the electromagnetic energy source that brings down their plane -- THAT will be a paradox.

Offline hyperform

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Re: RIP Faraday
« Reply #65 on: April 30, 2009, 01:23:45 AM »
There is no time loop, no circle, no time paradox.  The only loop is one of causation -- essentially, Ellie sent Daniel to the island BECAUSE Daniel had to be on the island BECAUSE Ellie shot him there BECAUSE Ellie sent Daniel to the island.  But a loop in causation is one thing, and a loop in time is something else.  There is no getting caught in a loop -- everything only happened once.  Each person's individual timeline, the journey of their consciousness from birth to death, has a beginning and an end.  No loops.

Now if Daniel's theory is true, and Jack & co. can indeed set off an explosion that will destroy the electromagnetic energy source that brings down their plane -- THAT will be a paradox.
thank you, that is exactly what I was trying to say, though not as eloquently as you just did.

Offline Bostonlost

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Re: RIP Faraday
« Reply #66 on: April 30, 2009, 01:24:15 AM »
Ok if Dan dies and Ellie goes off the Island what happens?

Offline norville

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Re: RIP Faraday
« Reply #67 on: April 30, 2009, 01:31:34 AM »
Ok if Dan dies and Ellie goes off the Island what happens?
Well, if we are to believe the same thing that Eloise does -- that you can't change the future -- then here is Ellie's timeline:
in 1977, Daniel dies and sometime later Ellie goes off the island.
Ellie has a baby and names him Daniel.
Ellie raises Daniel to be a brilliant mathematician and physicist.
Ellie pushes her son to excel.
She does all of this, knowing he's destined to go to the island, travel back in time somehow, and get shot.
In 2004, Ellie sends her son to the Island as a sacrifice, in order to make what happened, happen.
In 2007, when the Oceanic 6 show up, she helps them get back to the island.  (It is unclear to me whether she learned in 1977 that there were others from the future there with her son, but it seems plausible.)
After she sends the Oceanic 6 back to the island in 2007, she no longer knows what the future holds.

Offline jamesl

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Re: RIP Faraday
« Reply #68 on: April 30, 2009, 01:32:29 AM »
Ok if Dan dies and Ellie goes off the Island what happens?

season 6

Offline HurleysGirl

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Re: RIP Faraday
« Reply #69 on: April 30, 2009, 01:44:05 AM »

Now if Daniel's theory is true, and Jack & co. can indeed set off an explosion that will destroy the electromagnetic energy source that brings down their plane -- THAT will be a paradox.

Jack and Juliet, THAT's a pair 'o' docs.  Gigglesnort.

Offline norville

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Re: RIP Faraday
« Reply #70 on: April 30, 2009, 01:45:19 AM »
Jack and Juliet, THAT's a pair 'o' docs.
LOL!  Good one, HurleysGirl.

Offline Bostonlost

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Re: RIP Faraday
« Reply #71 on: April 30, 2009, 01:46:25 AM »
Ok if Dan dies and Ellie goes off the Island what happens?
Well, if we are to believe the same thing that Eloise does -- that you can't change the future -- then here is Ellie's timeline:
in 1977, Daniel dies and sometime later Ellie goes off the island.
Ellie has a baby and names him Daniel.
Ellie raises Daniel to be a brilliant mathematician and physicist.
Ellie pushes her son to excel.
She does all of this, knowing he's destined to go to the island, travel back in time somehow, and get shot.
In 2004, Ellie sends her son to the Island as a sacrifice, in order to make what happened, happen.
In 2007, when the Oceanic 6 show up, she helps them get back to the island.  (It is unclear to me whether she learned in 1977 that there were others from the future there with her son, but it seems plausible.)
After she sends the Oceanic 6 back to the island in 2007, she no longer knows what the future holds.

And this doesn't repeat why?.......

If the Hatch is built this repeats....it repeats because Dan is dead because if 2007 hw would get sent back again

Offline IFP

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Re: RIP Faraday
« Reply #72 on: April 30, 2009, 02:45:55 AM »
First mistake - thinking of time as linear. It is not. For people in, let's say, 1895, it IS - right now - 1895.
We perceive time as linear, but it is no more linear than space - you have to move to get from point a to point b, but both points already existed, and continue to exist.

Therefore, no loop. There is, however, as mentioned, a CAUSALITY loop. A caused B caused A etc...
This causality loop IS a form of paradox - it is a Predestination Paradox.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predestination_paradox

This obviously isn't the same as the more familiar Grandfather Paradox - A caused B prevented A; therefore B doesn't exist; therefore B didn't prevent A; therefore A caused B etc... This type of paradox is what would have been created if Faraday's plan had been successful.

Regardless, it is not happening infinitely. Eloise sent Daniel back in time, knowing full well that he would die, because she remembered killing him. He is a time traveler. She didn't know who he was when she killed him. She later found out, but knows she is powerless to change his path. It's really very simple, if you let it be.

Offline jamesl

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Re: RIP Faraday
« Reply #73 on: April 30, 2009, 02:49:30 AM »
...
Regardless, it is not happening infinitely. Eloise sent Daniel back in time, knowing full well that he would die, because she remembered killing him. He is a time traveler. She didn't know who he was when she killed him. She later found out, but knows she is powerless to change his path. It's really very simple, if you let it be.

someone else said she sent him back hoping he would be able to change the past
I can actually see that
a mother doing everything she can trying to change the past where she killed her son

Offline ericd543

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Re: RIP Faraday
« Reply #74 on: April 30, 2009, 03:43:14 AM »
R.I.P. Daniel Faraday
Thank you for trying to set things right.
Now you can go to the pretty light.
Free will, good show. You did your best.
Tho I'm still hoping you were wearing a vest.
See ya in another life brotha, but don't know when.
Maybe you can explain this time travel stuff to me then.