Author Topic: What is a Paradox?  (Read 8203 times)

Offline Novashannon

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Re: What is a Paradox?
« Reply #60 on: April 18, 2009, 01:48:14 PM »
GMTA, I was going to post the definition, too.  By that definition, Miles the baby being in the same time as MIles the Freightie is indeed a paradox, because one contradicts the other.  Actually, I think time travel is by nature a paradox. 

I agree with your last part about Time Travel itself is a paradox (kind of), but Future Miles being present in the same time as Past Miles isn't in itself a paradox, because neither one could stop the other.

Chang could be upset about the two bunnies, because any time you ring two identical entities from separate time-spaces together, there is the possibility for a paradox to occur, resulting in the complete collapse of the atomic structure of the universe, simultaneously completely rendering all matter non-existent. Including the entire planet earth, and every thing that lives. Miles being in the presence of his baby self isn't a paradox, but the fact that he is there opens up the classical paradox scenarios of killing himself as a baby, etc. The two bunnies appearing together wasn't a paradox, obviously - because nothing bad happened, but Chang was concerned about the potential of a paradox - if the future bunny shot the past bunny, for example - so he quickly ordered that the bunnies be separated and not allowed to see each other. Maybe? Just a thought.

Time Cop fan are we sledge??

As for these two below...

What is not a paradox, is if I go back in time to when I was a baby and rock myself to sleep. In that scenario, I still grow up to go back in time to rock myself asleep.

For me a paradox is when something never got invented.
For example I study Einstein in 2009 and than travel back and teach Einstein
the theory of relativity, so that he can write it down and I can study it in 2009.

Daniel sending Desmond to Oxford in 1996 to give him the settings of his timetravelstuff
from his book in 2004, so that he in 1996 can note that numbers in his book is a paradox.
He never invented them, just told them to himself from the future.

I respectfully disagree. It seems to me that a paradox would be if you do anything to affect the other version of yourself at all. Even something as simple as rocking yourself to sleep as a chiled.

I agreed with you, until I actualloy went and looked up the definition of "paradox."  Basically, a paradox is a self-contradiction (www.onelook.com).  I looked in several dictionaries and they all basically said that.  Being in the same time period at two different ages is aa self-contradiction.  Normally, we humans exist in one time at one age.  We live life in a linear fashion.  Being a paradox does not necessariloy threaten the space-time continuum.  Thus, merely existing in the same time twice is a benevolent paradox , or one that does not make any difference.Killing Miles as a baby would be a malevolent paradox, and threaten the future.  That is how I see it, based on the dictionery def of paradox.

Offline shadow

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Re: What is a Paradox?
« Reply #61 on: April 18, 2009, 06:51:08 PM »
I agreed with you, until I actualloy went and looked up the definition of "paradox."  Basically, a paradox is a self-contradiction (www.onelook.com).  I looked in several dictionaries and they all basically said that.  Being in the same time period at two different ages is aa self-contradiction.

If you assume that time is absolutely linear, then you have a case that it is a contradiction. However, by the mere fact that there is time travel in the Lostverse, calling it "absolutely linear" cannot be true.

If you assume that Lostverse time is two dimensional, then nothing precludes a person from existing in the same timeframe at two different points in their life. So far, I don't think anything we've learned has contradicted a two-dimensional time theory.

"Shadow," you begin, " Daniel said that time is like a street..."

Yes, that is true, the perception of the passage of time to the Lostversians is like a street, but their perception is merely the projection of movement in space time along the "time" axis (the 'x' axis in my graph).

There is a video of Carl Sagan explaining "Flatland" and the perception of dimension when you project from a greater the lesser dimension ... in the case of Flatland, how a 3 dimensional object is perceived in a 2d world.

By the same token, valid movement within a 2d plane projected onto a single dimension might make such movement appear as non-valid to those "stuck" in that one dimension.

Then again, I am just as likely to be completely wrong.

Offline Novashannon

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Re: What is a Paradox?
« Reply #62 on: April 19, 2009, 04:56:55 PM »
I agreed with you, until I actualloy went and looked up the definition of "paradox."  Basically, a paradox is a self-contradiction (www.onelook.com).  I looked in several dictionaries and they all basically said that.  Being in the same time period at two different ages is aa self-contradiction.

If you assume that time is absolutely linear, then you have a case that it is a contradiction. However, by the mere fact that there is time travel in the Lostverse, calling it "absolutely linear" cannot be true.

If you assume that Lostverse time is two dimensional, then nothing precludes a person from existing in the same timeframe at two different points in their life. So far, I don't think anything we've learned has contradicted a two-dimensional time theory.

"Shadow," you begin, " Daniel said that time is like a street..."

Yes, that is true, the perception of the passage of time to the Lostversians is like a street, but their perception is merely the projection of movement in space time along the "time" axis (the 'x' axis in my graph).

There is a video of Carl Sagan explaining "Flatland" and the perception of dimension when you project from a greater the lesser dimension ... in the case of Flatland, how a 3 dimensional object is perceived in a 2d world.

By the same token, valid movement within a 2d plane projected onto a single dimension might make such movement appear as non-valid to those "stuck" in that one dimension.

Then again, I am just as likely to be completely wrong.
LOl - we are all likely to be wrong, as it is all fictional!   
I think, however, that the events till qualify as a paradox, because it is contrary to the way normal time runs.  Most ordinary mortals live life in a linear fashion.  Any other way creates a paradox.  I do accept time travel and the premise of it, but it still, by defini tion, constituesa paradox.

Offline The_Hatch_Monkey

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Re: What is a Paradox?
« Reply #63 on: April 20, 2009, 12:46:13 AM »
If Ben tells someone that Charles would more is a liar....would he be telling the truth being a liar himself?

Charles would more....what?
Charles would more...than likely be truthfully lying?


Charles Would more. 

I couldn't help myself.