the numbers

[DaveJohnson]

He can not do this because that would be a paradox

Untrue.  Desmond already created such a paradox by telling Daniel about the principle of time travel, which Daniel then used to tell Desmond about time travel and so on and nothing happened.

And don't give me "it's because you're special" stuff.  Lost has been very good at showing that no paradoxes are caused... even in situations that should cause them.  Desmond is not the exception, the island is.

This was an odd moment, because Daniel 'passed on' information to Desmond that he (Desmond) did not previously have. I found it interesting that he woke up and 'remembered' the event suddenly.

[grizn0]

All Desmond told Daniel back then was what frequency to set his "device" to and what speed to make it ocillate at. He did not tell him about the principles of time travel; Dan was theorizing about that for what looked to me like a long time before Desmond came to visit him at Oxford.

[SQUIRT199]

Could it possibly be that Hurley first heard the numbers at the point we saw tonight (the serial number for the hatch)?  Could that really be all they are and Hurley himself makes them out to be far more on his own? I know we discussed that it sounded like him on the transmission. Possibly he recorded that during the time skips??? i'm reaching....help

This is where it gets confusing so bear with me. He couldn't have heard the numbers for the first time in 1977 because it hadn't happened for him yet. That is why he knew 42 was coming. We know that he heard them from Leonard. Now where Leonard got them is any one's guess

I dont understand it didnt happen yet so that is how he knows?

[opgelost]

All Desmond told Daniel back then was what frequency to set his "device" to and what speed to make it ocillate at. He did not tell him about the principles of time travel; Dan was theorizing about that for what looked to me like a long time before Desmond came to visit him at Oxford.

The paradox was that Daniel in the future send Des to Daniel in the past to tell him how to use his machine and than he noted that numbers in his diary. The numbers came from himself in the future. Daniel said that it was a paradox and therefor he thought it was a joke
from one of his students. 

[SQUIRT199]

Could it possibly be that Hurley first heard the numbers at the point we saw tonight (the serial number for the hatch)?  Could that really be all they are and Hurley himself makes them out to be far more on his own? I know we discussed that it sounded like him on the transmission. Possibly he recorded that during the time skips??? i'm reaching....help

This is where it gets confusing so bear with me. He couldn't have heard the numbers for the first time in 1977 because it hadn't happened for him yet. That is why he knew 42 was coming. We know that he heard them from Leonard. Now where Leonard got them is any one's guess

He can not do this because that would be a paradox

Oh no not again,

[SQUIRT199]

Could it possibly be that Hurley first heard the numbers at the point we saw tonight (the serial number for the hatch)?  Could that really be all they are and Hurley himself makes them out to be far more on his own? I know we discussed that it sounded like him on the transmission. Possibly he recorded that during the time skips??? i'm reaching....help

This is where it gets confusing so bear with me. He couldn't have heard the numbers for the first time in 1977 because it hadn't happened for him yet. That is why he knew 42 was coming. We know that he heard them from Leonard. Now where Leonard got them is any one's guess

He can not do this because that would be a paradox

I would say Miles seeing his younger self in his fathers arms reading a book is a paradox too...... but it happened didnt it?

[Creflo]

He can not do this (record the message having received the info 3rd hand from the same message) because that would be a paradox

I would say Miles seeing his younger self in his fathers arms reading a book is a paradox too

A paradox is a contradiction, not just an anomaly.  In the case of Hurley and the numbers, it's more of a self-fulfilling prophesy.  Seeing oneself in the past is weird, but neither of these is a paradox because there is no contradiction.  Making a change to history such that the reasons for the original time travel are undone would be a paradox.  Miles killing his infant self, for example, would be paradoxical.


Also, when people start to speculate that seeing, meeting, or touching oneself in the past would somehow create some kind of time freakout, this is based on other sci-fi principles that are not necessarily in play on Lost.

[JBRam]

Could it possibly be that Hurley first heard the numbers at the point we saw tonight (the serial number for the hatch)?  Could that really be all they are and Hurley himself makes them out to be far more on his own? I know we discussed that it sounded like him on the transmission. Possibly he recorded that during the time skips??? i'm reaching....help

This is where it gets confusing so bear with me. He couldn't have heard the numbers for the first time in 1977 because it hadn't happened for him yet. That is why he knew 42 was coming. We know that he heard them from Leonard. Now where Leonard got them is any one's guess

He can not do this because that would be a paradox

It would not be a paradox because a loop does not constitute a paradox. If that is what happened, then that is what always happened. 2004 Hurley exists before 1977 Hurley, but whatever 1977 Hurley does will affect the future because Hurley was always in 1977.

What's confusing about that?

[on the island]

It would not be a paradox because a loop does not constitute a paradox. If that is what happened, then that is what always happened. 2004 Hurley exists before 1977 Hurley, but whatever 1977 Hurley does will affect the future because Hurley was always in 1977.

What's confusing about that?

I hate this rationalization.  The fact that we are just supposed to accept this is lame.  But we've been through this. 

[BobBX542]

Hey, I got an idea, lets talk about the numbers, and not paradoxes. LOL

I posted this somewhere else, but I guess this is just as good a place as any. I'm sort of on the fence about the numbers scene. I, for one, am excited anytime we get an answer to one of our questions. So the numbers being the serial number of the Swan does sort of answer the question of, "What are the numbers for??", and that makes me happy. But then I'm sort of let down by the idea tat they are "just the serial number". That's kind of, uh, stupid.

But it leads me to wonder something else, so I guess it's not all bad. If the number are "just the serial number" of the Swan, then why are they being broadcast in a repeating loop?? Doesn't seem to make much sense to me to do that with just one of the stations.

[lostandfree]

Maybe the recording on the loop is actually Radzinsky.  Maybe he made the recording after the purge when they were down in the swan.  His hope was that someone leftover from Dharma would try to find out what happened, come looking for the island, and would understand that the numbers were the numbers on the Swan so they would know where to find Radzinsky and Kelvin, who were perhaps the only Dharma survivors.  It was a clue on where to find them.

[My Sideways Self]

Hey, I got an idea, lets talk about the numbers, and not paradoxes. LOL

I posted this somewhere else, but I guess this is just as good a place as any. I'm sort of on the fence about the numbers scene. I, for one, am excited anytime we get an answer to one of our questions. So the numbers being the serial number of the Swan does sort of answer the question of, "What are the numbers for??", and that makes me happy. But then I'm sort of let down by the idea tat they are "just the serial number". That's kind of, uh, stupid.

But it leads me to wonder something else, so I guess it's not all bad. If the number are "just the serial number" of the Swan, then why are they being broadcast in a repeating loop?? Doesn't seem to make much sense to me to do that with just one of the stations.

If I remember right there were also other things the numbers appeared on... the vaccines for example... just coincidental?

[grizn0]

Its also been stated (not on the show but in extra content) that the numbers represent variables in the Valenzetti equation. So they can't be just a serial number. I'm with you Bob, theres gotta be more to them than that.

[WhatThe]

Maybe the recording on the loop is actually Radzinsky.  Maybe he made the recording after the purge when they were down in the swan.  His hope was that someone leftover from Dharma would try to find out what happened, come looking for the island, and would understand that the numbers were the numbers on the Swan so they would know where to find Radzinsky and Kelvin, who were perhaps the only Dharma survivors.  It was a clue on where to find them.

That's actually rather close to how real "ghost numbers" work, so you might be right.

[xrayeck]

The Numbers = Pulled randomly in the California lottery in 2003.

DHARMA, Hanso, Valenzetti Equation = One very long con