The Submarine guys' uniforms

[opgelost]

The whole scene of the exile of Widmore wasn't what I expected.
I expected Widmore to leave the island being forced by Ben to push the wheel,
taking with him a bunch of mothers with young children, like Charlotte and her mother,
who were warned by the losties for the incident and the purge.

How did Ben know about the wheel in 2004?

[LostinLock]

OP -
I agree - after Widmore disclosed to locke that Ben tricked him off th island, well I was expecting something more dramatic than that.

Who knows what they were thinking - maybe they thought it was more important to show off new jumpsuits and insignias filled with hunky men then give us the meat on what really transpired.

We all have expectations from these folks and this one was most definitely a let down.

[Mrs Alpert]

The whole scene of the exile of Widmore wasn't what I expected.
I expected Widmore to leave the island being forced by Ben to push the wheel,
taking with him a bunch of mothers with young children, like Charlotte and her mother,
who were warned by the losties for the incident and the purge.

How did Ben know about the wheel in 2004?

And since Widmore wasn't tricked into leaving by turning the wheel, how did he know about the exit in Tunisia? Or maybe that's where everybody goes when they leave the island in any manner? This is getting confusing.  Or rather, this is continuing to be confusing.

[hyperform]

I think he knew the general vicinity because of the polar bears, and then the guys that came after Ben confirmed it.

[LostinLock]

Widmore explained all this in Jeremy Benthem about how he figured it to be the exit from the island. 

LOCKE: The camera in the desert--that was yours?

WIDMORE: Yeah.

LOCKE: How did you know I'd be there?

WIDMORE: Well, that's the exit. I was afraid Benjamin might fool you into leaving the Island, as he did with me. I was their leader.

LOCKE: The Others?

[Novashannon]

Being put on the sub does not seem like he was tricked.  so we still don't know how Ben tricked him.  Unless Widmore was lying.  Why would he, though?

[Mrs Alpert]

If the Locke/Widmore conversation explains it, and Widmore left the island in the submarine, then this implies the exit from the submarine is in Tunisia.  

So either the multiple ways in which to leave the island all exit in Tunisia, or Widmore knows about the FDW, or he's lying to Locke.

I think, like Ben, Widmore relies on syntax. If you read his three sentences as one complete thought, it implies that Ben fooled Widmore into leaving the island the same way that Locke left the island, and the exit is for the wheel. But in his tricky manner of speaking, Widmore could have been giving Locke three separate pieces of true information that have nothing to do with each other, in an order that would make Locke infer that they are connected. This conversation between them is actually how I came up with my question...lol. We know Ben is careful about what he says, and if his most formidable foe is Widmore, I'd imagine that Widmore has to be just as careful/tricky in what he says.

[LostinLock]

Because in the context of that particular conversation he was talking about Ben arriving there/Tunisia and then keeping the camera on it.  We saw two people turn the wheel and end up in tunisia.

We see no submarine arrive there and I think Widmore would have added well when my submarine left i ended up here old man so I decided 20 years ago to put a camera here. 
 
We see polar bears there as they were transported from that pod that was in the orchid.(based on what they were doing with the bunnies)

If it worked a different way why in heavens name would Widmore hire a freighter to get to the island.

Seriously I agree all exits from the island inlcuding Walt and Michael being picked up by a boat in the ocean ended up in in Tunisia.

[Mrs Alpert]

Polar bears and Ben ended up in Tunisia. Widmore says, "Well, that's the exit" but never explains what it's an exit from--hence, my question about whether he knows about or how much he knows about the FDW, the Orchid, or the Others' way to leave the island that we haven't seen yet. If Ben had truly fooled Locke into leaving in the same manner he fooled Widmore, Locke would have left via submarine, and Widmore would have no reason to believe Locke would show up in Tunisia. So Widmore lied to Locke.

Widmore explained all this in Jeremy Benthem about how he figured it to be the exit from the island. 

But their conversation doesn't explain at all about how he figured it out, he just says that it is the exit.

Of course my argument about all island exits leading to Tunisia is reductio ad absurdum, that was my intent. But thanks anyway for the sarcasm, it really helps to forward the discussion in a respectful, mature way. 

[LostinLock]

Mrs A -

I was not being sarcastic or disrespectful you actually have me wondering if I understand how much Widmore really knows about the island.

  I thought that the young 17 year old Widmore told us he knew the island better than the old man Locke.  His being fooled by a younger Ben Linus and turning the wheel was an assumption on my part.  Ben's fooling him could have been something else.

Perhaps they are transported from the sub, we never really see it other than just resting in the same place.  Perhaps Locke had figured that out and is why he blew it up, not allowing for further transporting.

As the assumption I also made was Widmore understood that the exit was one from the island.  After his discussion with Ben in his bedroom late at night he did say it was his island.  I jumpled to the conclusion that Widmore would know more than Ben did about many things.

As is my assumptions that Widmore is involved with the Dharma Initiative coming to the island and setting things up. 

Thank you and again for helping me look at this in another manner. I am sorry, I in no way intended to leave an impression of sarcasm or disrespect, as it was not meant personally.   

[opgelost]

I think the exit in Tunesia where Locke appeared is the dharmawheelexit, but also the exit of the
time/teleportationmachine in the Orchid.
Ben was a known guest in the hotel in Tunesia, so I suppose he used that exit before,
but not with the wheel, because to get to the wheel Ben had to destroy the cabin in the Orchid.
The other way to get to the wheel was through the well, but the well was filled with earth
in 1974.
Ben has to discover the wheel between 1977 and the building of the Orchid. Maybe Daniel uses it
to get them back? Or did Jacob or Richard tell him about the wheel?

[horseshoe_crab]

I just rewatched that scene and the insignias are clearly in the shape of the letter H.  Have we ever seen a Hanso logo?  It makes sense that Alvar Hanso could/would supply equipment (subs, weapons, etc.) and even operators for Dharma.  Just a thought...

[BobBX542]

Mrs. Hawking had mentioned that there were pockets of the electromagnetism (or what have you) that are connected to others. Perhaps Widmore used the fortune he had amassed to find these pockets, but did not know which one was the exit. Now, Ben uses the FDW to leave the island, and shows up at a hotel in Tunisia and tells the desk clerk his name, to which she reacts strangely. Now, if you've been willing to take this little trip with me, just imagine that next to his name (Dean Moriarty) in the register, there is a little note that says "Contact Widmore industries" or something else to that effect. So she does, and now Widmore knows that the pocket of magnetic energy in Tunisia is most likely the exit ffrom the island, and then sets his cameras up.

[Zinzi]

That sounds very plausible Bob!  I also agree with opgelost that the Tunisia exit is most probably the exit for both the FDW and the Orchid telportation pod or possibly there is some other teleportation pod / portal on the island that the Others use, maybe in the Temple (the main part, not the wall or the underground part)?  There has to be some way of Richard getting to the mainland in the 50s and 70s to visit baby Locke and teenage Locke, unless he went via normal transport methods?  I'm still not sure on all this getting to and from the island!

Re the uniforms and the symbol, Lostpedia says that

A ¦|¦ (or rather ☵) trigram is seen on the submarine's conning tower and on the shirt of one of its crew members. The same symbol appears on the bottom of the DHARMA logos. This symbol has two symbolic representations: as Nature, Water; and as one of its meanings, the Abyss.

    A lot of thought has gone into the Dharma logos and I think you can either appreciate the symbolism or just casually observe that there are various Dharma logos.  Mrs A raises a good question though, which is why are the Others wearing these submarine uniforms?  It does seem strange that the Others carried on utilising a lot of Dharma stuff.  I think it's something the Others have always done though, as we saw with the uniforms and tents they took from the Army in the 50s.  This reminds me of a point I made in another thread and which I want to check if there is a thread about - Charles Widmore's horse, where did that come from.  Right I'm off to check if it's been discussed yet!

[Maxor127]

The Others are scavengers.