Author Topic: Alex and Ben's conversation  (Read 6724 times)

Offline BobBX542

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Re: Alex and Ben's conversation
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2009, 11:27:23 AM »
when widmore was being banished from the island, widmore said in ref to Ben saving Alex:

BEN: Because I won't be selfish. Because I'll sacrifice anything to protect this Island.

WIDMORE: You wouldn't sacrifice Alex.

BEN: You're the one who wanted her dead, Charles, not the Island.

WIDMORE: I hope you're right, Benjamin, because if you aren't, and it is the Island that wants her dead, she'll be dead. And one day, you'll be standing where I'm standing now. You'll be the one being banished, and then you'll finally realize that you cannot fight the inevitable. I'll be seeing you, boy.

I think this is the reason he felt he needed to be judged in reference to Alex. for saving her not just for killing her. so he did the right thing because he wasn't banished or he  didn't and that is the reason why she died? I'd like to think he did the right thing and then the island was just done with her so she died. but im not sure.



So you think the judgement was all about Ben NOT killing Alex (and Rousseau by default LOL), but because she did eventually die, then the island got what it wanted??

Offline Mrs Hume

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Re: Alex and Ben's conversation
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2009, 12:31:42 PM »
watching it the second time around I started to wonder that yes. because if widmore was right and the island didn't want Ben to save Alex she will die. and she did.( but it was at the hands of widmore.) So did the island want her dead?
 widmore said that if Ben was wrong he would be standing in the same place and will be banished too. but Ben was never banished. so was widmore wrong. and if so what does that tell us? that's what I'm trying to figure out.

Offline grizn0

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Re: Alex and Ben's conversation
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2009, 12:33:00 PM »
I figured she died by the hands of Widmore and Widmore alone (I mean, other than Keamy). If the island wanted her dead... would it really have waited 16 years to make it happen?

Offline BobBX542

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Re: Alex and Ben's conversation
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2009, 12:41:35 PM »
I figured she died by the hands of Widmore and Widmore alone (I mean, other than Keamy). If the island wanted her dead... would it really have waited 16 years to make it happen?

That was going to be MY counter arguement!! LOL

Offline grizn0

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Re: Alex and Ben's conversation
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2009, 12:46:10 PM »
I figured she died by the hands of Widmore and Widmore alone (I mean, other than Keamy). If the island wanted her dead... would it really have waited 16 years to make it happen?

That was going to be MY counter arguement!! LOL
Haha, sorry I gots me some quick fingers  :P

Offline TheBrightandTheDark

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Re: Alex and Ben's conversation
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2009, 12:48:09 PM »
I figured she died by the hands of Widmore and Widmore alone (I mean, other than Keamy). If the island wanted her dead... would it really have waited 16 years to make it happen?

That was going to be MY counter arguement!! LOL
Oh, both y'all beat me to it.... the island wanted Charlie dead, and got its wish within 3 months. It's a very persistent island.

I just thought: if Alex had been killed as a child, Ben wouldn't have had a daughter to grow attached to and "let" die. Then, when Locke came back to the island, who could have convinced Ben NOT to try to kill Locke again? Who would have the kind of emotional impact as his daughter? Maybe the island's purpose for her was to get shot by Keamy, so Ben would follow/protect Locke when they got back?  ???

Offline grizn0

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Re: Alex and Ben's conversation
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2009, 12:58:29 PM »
I figured she died by the hands of Widmore and Widmore alone (I mean, other than Keamy). If the island wanted her dead... would it really have waited 16 years to make it happen?

That was going to be MY counter arguement!! LOL
Oh, both y'all beat me to it.... the island wanted Charlie dead, and got its wish within 3 months. It's a very persistent island.

I just thought: if Alex had been killed as a child, Ben wouldn't have had a daughter to grow attached to and "let" die. Then, when Locke came back to the island, who could have convinced Ben NOT to try to kill Locke again? Who would have the kind of emotional impact as his daughter? Maybe the island's purpose for her was to get shot by Keamy, so Ben would follow/protect Locke when they got back?  ???
So you're saying that the island did in fact want her dead... just not until Keamy came?

Offline Souldrinker

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Re: Alex and Ben's conversation
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2009, 01:07:17 PM »
Not bad , not bad ;) makes alot of sense

Offline Souldrinker

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Re: Alex and Ben's conversation
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2009, 01:08:17 PM »
I figured she died by the hands of Widmore and Widmore alone (I mean, other than Keamy). If the island wanted her dead... would it really have waited 16 years to make it happen?

That was going to be MY counter arguement!! LOL
Oh, both y'all beat me to it.... the island wanted Charlie dead, and got its wish within 3 months. It's a very persistent island.

I just thought: if Alex had been killed as a child, Ben wouldn't have had a daughter to grow attached to and "let" die. Then, when Locke came back to the island, who could have convinced Ben NOT to try to kill Locke again? Who would have the kind of emotional impact as his daughter? Maybe the island's purpose for her was to get shot by Keamy, so Ben would follow/protect Locke when they got back?  ???

Not bad , not bad ;) makes alot of sense Mrs A

Offline Mrs Hume

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Re: Alex and Ben's conversation
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2009, 01:09:13 PM »
So was widmore right? because he said that if the island wants her dead, Ben would be exiled for making the wrong decision.

Offline TheBrightandTheDark

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Re: Alex and Ben's conversation
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2009, 01:17:35 PM »
Oh, both y'all beat me to it.... the island wanted Charlie dead, and got its wish within 3 months. It's a very persistent island.

I just thought: if Alex had been killed as a child, Ben wouldn't have had a daughter to grow attached to and "let" die. Then, when Locke came back to the island, who could have convinced Ben NOT to try to kill Locke again? Who would have the kind of emotional impact as his daughter? Maybe the island's purpose for her was to get shot by Keamy, so Ben would follow/protect Locke when they got back?  ???
So you're saying that the island did in fact want her dead... just not until Keamy came?
Not so much that the island wants her dead, but that her purpose is to be killed. Her death is different from say, Ana Lucia's because AL's didn't have a larger purpose. The island just wanted her dead. But Alex has to be killed in order to push Ben into following Locke. ...I"m not sure I'm explaining this right.  :-\

Well Mrs H...Alex was going to die eventually. I think Widmore was wrong, because Ben hasn't been exiled yet. It can't have been wrong to keep her alive, and it can't have been entirely wrong for Keamy to kill her, because both of these decisions leads to dead-Alex convincing Ben to follow Locke.

Offline grizn0

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Re: Alex and Ben's conversation
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2009, 01:20:17 PM »
Ok I get what your saying Mrs. A. It was her purpose to die and serve as Ben's motivation to follow Locke. Not necessarily the island just wanted her dead.

Offline Mrs Hume

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Re: Alex and Ben's conversation
« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2009, 01:22:06 PM »
Oh, both y'all beat me to it.... the island wanted Charlie dead, and got its wish within 3 months. It's a very persistent island.

I just thought: if Alex had been killed as a child, Ben wouldn't have had a daughter to grow attached to and "let" die. Then, when Locke came back to the island, who could have convinced Ben NOT to try to kill Locke again? Who would have the kind of emotional impact as his daughter? Maybe the island's purpose for her was to get shot by Keamy, so Ben would follow/protect Locke when they got back?  ???
So you're saying that the island did in fact want her dead... just not until Keamy came?
Not so much that the island wants her dead, but that her purpose is to be killed. Her death is different from say, Ana Lucia's because AL's didn't have a larger purpose. The island just wanted her dead. But Alex has to be killed in order to push Ben into following Locke. ...I"m not sure I'm explaining this right.  :-\

Well Mrs H...Alex was going to die eventually. I think Widmore was wrong, because Ben hasn't been exiled yet. It can't have been wrong to keep her alive, and it can't have been entirely wrong for Keamy to kill her, because both of these decisions leads to dead-Alex convincing Ben to follow Locke.

right, that I figured, but if Widmore was wrong that she should have been killed when she was a baby, then that gives us a little more insight about widmore. well , for me anyway.

Offline TheBrightandTheDark

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Re: Alex and Ben's conversation
« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2009, 01:32:34 PM »
right, that I figured, but if Widmore was wrong that she should have been killed when she was a baby, then that gives us a little more insight about widmore. well , for me anyway.
Hmm. Yeah. Every time I see Widmore all sarcastic and mean, my fists clench up. Oh! Ben must have a lot of self-control not to start a fistfight with that guy! ....haha, I guess it's obvious to whom I'm loyal.  ::)

Offline Des

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Re: Alex and Ben's conversation
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2009, 01:46:14 PM »
Maybe Alex's death is along the same line as Charlie's?

Charlie was destined to die. Although Desmond attempted to "save" him, the island would always course correct and he'd simply die another way. Knowing this, Charlie accepts the Looking Glass mission. Desmond tries to take his place yet again but Charlie won't allow it. Then, the mission ends up being a mission that NO ONE ELSE on the island would have been able to complete -- except for a musician. Charlie.

I've always wondered what if Desmond had stopped preventing Charlie's death earlier on? What if he had died one of the methods that Desmond prevented from happening? The Losties would have never been able to complete the Looking Glass mission.

I think perhaps Alex's death is the same way. She could have died earlier on if Ben had done what he was sent to do, but that didn't happen. Instead the island allowed him to become emotionally involved with this person and now that relationship is able to affect Ben to do what the island wants him to do -- follow Locke.