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BobBX542
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« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2009, 04:04:34 PM » |
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Only if it benefits Ben.
That's the point of what I mean though. I think Ben has actually changed, or is going to start to change. |
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"So, go ahead and tighten those skull screws 2 Notches below excruciating, or else the power won't transfer to the drill."
God I Hate Michael So Much.
I danced a Jig when Michael Died, and again when Juliette hit bottom.
WTF Would Jesus Do??
I love validation.
NEPTUNE IS MY COPILOT!!!
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hyperform
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« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2009, 04:06:42 PM » |
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I think Ben is on board with team Locke for the time being, I mean the first time he tried to kill Locke he even said " I should have known it was pointless at the time, I guess I wasn't thinking clearly"
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Shakey
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« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2009, 04:07:46 PM » |
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Ben is very persistent. But his dead daughter threw him against a hieroglyphic-carved pillar and said, "I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE PLANNING TO DO!!!! Try it and I. Will. Kill. You. Understand?" ....so....I think he's gonna follow her advice.
Yep... at least, he's gonna try. He may succumb to his Benness at some point, but he's gonna try for the foreseeable future. He was definitely scared.. and it will stay with him for a little while anyway. I think it will also depend on how others behave. If John belittles Ben and makes him look bad in front of others, if others completely dismiss Ben as insignificant, he may attempt to unseed John somehow. Yeah...I agree. But I think Locke has smartened up, too. I don't think he'll make Ben look bad, I think Ben can do that well enough on his own (and I actually think Locke would agree with me on that one, lol!)...As long as the island keeps Ben alive, I think they'll see him as significant. At least I hope.  I agree that Locke isn't likely to do something like that. That would be an act of immaturity and he's definitely not displaying any of that. I agree that you agree with what I agreed that you agreed with me with.  lol I get the sense that we may be on the same page. |
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Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself.
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My Sideways Self
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« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2009, 04:10:01 PM » |
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What's the page number? I want to be on that page too  |
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LOST
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Shakey
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« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2009, 04:24:19 PM » |
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What's the page number? I want to be on that page too Good luck with that.. it's rapidly changing. |
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Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself.
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Mrs Alpert
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« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2009, 06:19:51 PM » |
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What's the page number? I want to be on that page too Good luck with that.. it's rapidly changing. I agree.  |
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Mrs. Alpert,
You are hardcore Lost.
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RM
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« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2009, 10:34:51 AM » |
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Maybe the one person who has real free will who can change the course of history -- ("The Variable", maybe!!!???) -- is the current leader of the Others. Ben manipulated his way into being their leader. The island never really chose him. He stumbled across Richard, who said maybe. Then, Kate and Sawyer bring him to Richard, who, for once, makes his own decision and Otherizes him. But Charles is still the leader at that point. Do we know that Jacob speaks to Ben? By the time Locke came along, it seems like Ben was keeping Jacob trapped and Jacob needed Locke's help to usurp Ben's leadership.
I think that the new "Dead is Dead" Locke is a reincarnated physical apparition just like Christian. I figure that makes this John another form of Smokey. (The carving on the wall of Smokey with a face, to me, confirms that Smokey can appear in human form.) So I think that Jacob knows Ben will no longer listen to him. Smokey/Jacob's new plan to control Ben (a true "variable") is to use this ruse to get him to do everything Locke says. Ben has never seen Christian or anyone else dead be reincarnated, so he doesn't realize that this new John is really Smokey/Jacob.
Ben goes down into the bottom chamber (without John). Then, Smokey appears in smoke form, "judges" Ben for the very thing that Ben admitted to John was the thing he feels he needs to be judged on. Smokey appears as Alex (the most powerful apparition available to influence Variable Ben) and says "do everything John says". So this is Smokey/Jacob's new way of tricking Ben back into doing what he wants so Ben won't act on his own like he did with Jacob.
Don't think it will last, though.
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BobBX542
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« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2009, 01:04:19 PM » |
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Maybe the one person who has real free will who can change the course of history -- ("The Variable", maybe!!!???) -- is the current leader of the Others. Ben manipulated his way into being their leader. The island never really chose him. He stumbled across Richard, who said maybe. Then, Kate and Sawyer bring him to Richard, who, for once, makes his own decision and Otherizes him. But Charles is still the leader at that point. Do we know that Jacob speaks to Ben? By the time Locke came along, it seems like Ben was keeping Jacob trapped and Jacob needed Locke's help to usurp Ben's leadership.
I think that the new "Dead is Dead" Locke is a reincarnated physical apparition just like Christian. I figure that makes this John another form of Smokey. (The carving on the wall of Smokey with a face, to me, confirms that Smokey can appear in human form.) So I think that Jacob knows Ben will no longer listen to him. Smokey/Jacob's new plan to control Ben (a true "variable") is to use this ruse to get him to do everything Locke says. Ben has never seen Christian or anyone else dead be reincarnated, so he doesn't realize that this new John is really Smokey/Jacob.
Ben goes down into the bottom chamber (without John). Then, Smokey appears in smoke form, "judges" Ben for the very thing that Ben admitted to John was the thing he feels he needs to be judged on. Smokey appears as Alex (the most powerful apparition available to influence Variable Ben) and says "do everything John says". So this is Smokey/Jacob's new way of tricking Ben back into doing what he wants so Ben won't act on his own like he did with Jacob.
Don't think it will last, though.
This is a good theory, and I hate to disagree with well thought out ideas, but I really think that Locke is the same "normal" human Locke, just with some sort of enlightened version, and that Ben is going to be a better person now. |
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"So, go ahead and tighten those skull screws 2 Notches below excruciating, or else the power won't transfer to the drill."
God I Hate Michael So Much.
I danced a Jig when Michael Died, and again when Juliette hit bottom.
WTF Would Jesus Do??
I love validation.
NEPTUNE IS MY COPILOT!!!
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Novashannon
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« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2009, 02:38:20 PM » |
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Wow, I seem to be agreeing with Bob a lot today! I think Locke is Locke, but I don't think Ben will change. In order to change, you have to want to change. In order to want to change, you have to admit you did wrong. Ben has not admitted he did wrong. H did say he killed Alex, but he really did not. So he really wasn't admitting he did wrong. I think Ben was actually trying to save Alex by pretending he did not care about her. Of course, if he had really cared about her, he would not have kidnapped her in the first place.
Ben still tells himself he does it all for the island, but in reality he does it all for Ben. We have free will, and Ben consistently makes poor choices.
I think he will go along with Locke for a bit, at least on the surface, but his instinct to manipulate will win out.
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BrianIsLost2
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« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2009, 03:53:46 PM » |
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Well, if this doesn't turn Ben around, nothing will. I think this is Ben's final awakening though. He is finally getting his priorities straight.
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"Rescuing you and your people... I can't really say is our primary objective."
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MangoBingo
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« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2009, 05:59:30 PM » |
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Ben will follow Locke's orders...
But Locke's orders will be Ben's wishes anyway - so it's a moot point.
Ben has a habit of making people think they came up with an original thought, when in truth he planted the seed in their mind through suggestion.
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Mrs Alpert
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« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2009, 06:25:09 PM » |
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Ben will follow Locke's orders...
But Locke's orders will be Ben's wishes anyway - so it's a moot point.
Ben has a habit of making people think they came up with an original thought, when in truth he planted the seed in their mind through suggestion.
I agree with all three of these things, except that I think Locke is now too...um, enlightened (for lack of a better term) to fall for Ben's devious mind games now. Locke's the one who knows things. Ben has to follow, cause he wants to know stuff, too. |
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Mrs. Alpert,
You are hardcore Lost.
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Bostonlost
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« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2009, 11:45:43 PM » |
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I would say yes.....But once you are a pickle you can never go back to being a cucumber
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norville
Background Extra
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Posts: 89
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« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2009, 11:56:54 PM » |
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I, for one, believed Alex/Smokey when she said that if Ben took one step out of line, she would hunt him down and destroy him. And I think Ben believed her too.
For this reason, I think Ben will move forward with all appearances of supporting and following Locke, while secretly hatching his own plan. At some point -- maybe this season, but probably next season -- he will try to make an endgame and overthrow Locke. At which point Smokey will carry out her promise and deliver retribution.
I only hope Ben can be good until near the end of Season 6, because I don't like thinking about LOST without him.
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Blitz Wing
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« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2009, 07:40:38 AM » |
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Ben will probably try to get Locke killed indirectly....that way it wasn't him harming Locke directly (Putting Locke in a position to be killed). Ben will probably also follow Locke's orders in a way that Locke didn't intend, so it can be argued he wasn't disobeying Locke.
I don't think Ben's going to be getting Locke his morning coffee now, just because Smokey/Alex threaten him.
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