Author Topic: New Time Travel Possibility (not the same ol' discussion)  (Read 2083 times)

Offline sadavidas

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New Time Travel Possibility (not the same ol' discussion)
« on: April 08, 2009, 05:50:33 AM »
I've read more than I care too about the whole time travel discussion but I thought of something interesting that I have not read anywhere.

Has it occurred to anyone else that the actions of the time travelers could effect their future?

I know you are probably thinking I'm beating a dead horse here, but bare with me.  What I mean by future in this sense is not defined by time  (ie 1977, 2009, etc...) but time from the characters perspective, things that have not happened to them yet.

Here's a couple examples of what I mean to clear things up:


In the Dharma days Jack believes that they still might flash back to present day (the time Locke and Ben are in) and hides a cache of guns (or pills) in the 70's thinking he might need them in thirty years.

Jack saying to Kate "Haha, I'm going to put this black stone and this white stone in Adam and Eve's pockets to mess with ourselves"

Assuming Ben remembers Kate's actions saving his life as a boy, he could remember what she did and sacrifice himself to save her life.


I just thought this concept is pretty cool because it allows predestination and free will to coexist.  So I guess what I'm trying to say is its possible their actions in the 70's can not change anything up until present day where locke and ben are (meaning whatever happened, happened) but anything thing that occurs after present day is not predetermined yet and can still be effected. 

Tell me if this isnt making any sense and I'll try to explain it another way.

Offline BlackString

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Re: New Time Travel Possibility (not the same ol' discussion)
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2009, 06:27:03 AM »
I've had this conversation with a friend of mine a few times and it always ends in a very heated discusion! If we call jack and Kate's point in time A and Ben and Locke point B, then what ever Kate and Jack do cannot effect anything between point A and B but can effect anything from point B onwards, as this hasn't happened yet.... But you could argue that if you believe time works like this then you cannot effect anything from point B onwards either because you'd believe that time in a singular linear path that cannot be strayed. We don't know that someone from the future (point C) isn't going to pop with Ben and Locke at point B at some stage and therefore meaning  nothing from point B to C could be changed either...

Basically (and people are going to hate me for this) the time travel aspect of lost is just there for storey telling, they'll do what ever they want with it, anyone with time travel always has and always will because no one knows, so they cant be told they're wrong! I don't mean to be too cynical but Lost was always going to be massively complicated, time travel was the perfect umbrella to explain so much easily. I'm just hoping they don't balls it up.

I'm not sure if this film has been mentioned, I've not searched the forums but anyone interested in time travel should watch Primer, amazing film and will help with the understanding of time reveraration... A-Mazin!

Offline Maxor127

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Re: New Time Travel Possibility (not the same ol' discussion)
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2009, 11:05:34 AM »
I suppose it would be the smart thing to do for them to plan ahead and leave stuff that would help them in the future (past).  I think that would still fall under whatever happened happened and they're not really changing the future, just what they always did.  So maybe if Jack did try to store guns that shouldn't be there in the future, things will course correct and someone will find the guns.  I don't know.  I try not to analyze time travel too much, since it's all fake, and I agree it's just a story telling device.  They can do whatever they want with it and use it to explain away anything.  I'm glad they're trying to place some limitations on it (for now at least).  It would be interesting to see them do something in the past as a way to try to benefit themselves in the future, but they're probably like me and don't really care about changing what already happened to them.  If time travel were real, I'd be too scared to try changing anything unless it was the most extreme of circumstances.

Offline jugdish

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Re: New Time Travel Possibility (not the same ol' discussion)
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2009, 11:30:02 AM »
But what you are saying is what always happened. If Jack put guns in a place in the 70's to use in the future, he always did that and so he did not change anything.

Offline SQUIRT199

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Re: New Time Travel Possibility (not the same ol' discussion)
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2009, 12:11:02 PM »
I've read more than I care too about the whole time travel discussion but I thought of something interesting that I have not read anywhere.

Has it occurred to anyone else that the actions of the time travelers could effect their future?   

I know you are probably thinking I'm beating a dead horse here, but bare with me.  What I mean by future in this sense is not defined by time  (ie 1977, 2009, etc...) but time from the characters perspective, things that have not happened to them yet.

Here's a couple examples of what I mean to clear things up:


In the Dharma days Jack believes that they still might flash back to present day (the time Locke and Ben are in) and hides a cache of guns (or pills) in the 70's thinking he might need them in thirty years.

Jack saying to Kate "Haha, I'm going to put this black stone and this white stone in Adam and Eve's pockets to mess with ourselves"

Assuming Ben remembers Kate's actions saving his life as a boy, he could remember what she did and sacrifice himself to save her life.


I just thought this concept is pretty cool because it allows predestination and free will to coexist.  So I guess what I'm trying to say is its possible their actions in the 70's can not change anything up until present day where locke and ben are (meaning whatever happened, happened) but anything thing that occurs after present day is not predetermined yet and can still be effected.    I am sorta with Mrs hume on this (i think) that Desmond will do something in 2007 (ben/locke/ajira's timeline) that will allow events after 2007 to be changed I am chossing to edit as I have used bad terminology Desmond will not chnage anything as I have said the future is not predetermined but he will do something that reunites the 77'ers and the 07'ers.and the losties wil somehow reunite from 77 to the future 2007) but I do agree with you that anything they do in 77 cannot affect thier future becase what we see them doing in 77 has always been done byt the people we see doing it,  these are just flashbacks to what happened in 77

Tell me if this isnt making any sense and I'll try to explain it another way.  I see where you are going and Jack could very well hide guns somewhere thinking they might be usefull in 2007, but 2004 (oceanic) jack would not know he had done it,  but 77 jack coming back to 2007 would

I've had this conversation with a friend of mine a few times and it always ends in a very heated discusion! If we call jack and Kate's point in time A and Ben and Locke point B, then what ever Kate and Jack do cannot effect anything between point A and B but can effect anything from point B onwards, as this hasn't happened yet.... I agree But you could argue that if you believe time works like this then you cannot effect anything from point B onwards either because you'd believe that time in a singular linear path that cannot be strayed. Whats going to happen in time B, can be affected by choices made by the various people in time B's timeline, the future is not set in stone, the past IS. As I have stated, try to think of what we are seeing now as a flashback to the events of 77 as they already happened. Dont think of the show in the order we are being shown, as in they go from 2004 to getting off the island to going back to the island some are in 77 some 2007. think of it as 77 happened first, they are just showing us what happened after they showed us the future in 2004 (make sense) think of usual suspect (only movie I can relate it to at this point)  we see what happened to lead Kaiser soze into the police station we dont see the movie as events happened like a regular story from beginning to end, they are showing us the middle then the almost end, then the past and the future we have yet to see.  (Maybe more like Kill Bill?) I think you get the idea. We don't know that someone from the future (point C) isn't going to pop with Ben and Locke at point B at some stage and therefore meaning  nothing from point B to C could be changed either...

Basically (and people are going to hate me for this) the time travel aspect of lost is just there for storey telling, they'll do what ever they want with it, anyone with time travel always has and always will because no one knows, so they cant be told they're wrong! I don't mean to be too cynical but Lost was always going to be massively complicated, time travel was the perfect umbrella to explain so much easily. I'm just hoping they don't balls it up.

I'm not sure if this film has been mentioned, I've not searched the forums but anyone interested in time travel should watch Primer, amazing film and will help with the understanding of time reveraration... A-Mazin!  Never saw it but will look for it.
I suppose it would be the smart thing to do for them to plan ahead and leave stuff that would help them in the future (past).  I think that would still fall under whatever happened happened and they're not really changing the future, just what they always did.  So maybe if Jack did try to store guns that shouldn't be there in the future, things will course correct and someone will find the guns. maybe someone, more likely jack would find them thought but only if he went back to 2007 from 1977,  2004 jack would not know about the guns because he hasnt hid them yet. I don't know.  I try not to analyze time travel too much, since it's all fake, and I agree it's just a story telling device.  They can do whatever they want with it and use it to explain away anything.  I'm glad they're trying to place some limitations on it (for now at least).  It would be interesting to see them do something in the past as a way to try to benefit themselves in the future, but they're probably like me and don't really care about changing what already happened to them.  If time travel were real, I'd be too scared to try changing anything unless it was the most extreme of circumstances.
But what you are saying is what always happened. If Jack put guns in a place in the 70's to use in the future, he always did that and so he did not change anything.  Agreed


Offline BurkRoyer

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Re: New Time Travel Possibility (not the same ol' discussion)
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2009, 02:08:59 PM »
BlackString... Thanks for the movie suggestion!  I love time-travel flicks and I'm always looking for new ones to see... I'll definitely check "Primer" out...

Offline SQUIRT199

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Re: New Time Travel Possibility (not the same ol' discussion)
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2009, 02:45:07 PM »
Oh the poor horse,  its dead and we ARE now kicking it.