Why Did It Turn To Day Outside the Plane After the Flash?

[BobBX542]

Okay, so, just so I know whether or not we're all on the same page, are you saying that the flash that Ajira 316 experienced had nothing to do with Locke turning the wheel/resetting the wheel??

[Shakey]

Okay, so, just so I know whether or not we're all on the same page, are you saying that the flash that Ajira 316 experienced had nothing to do with Locke turning the wheel/resetting the wheel??

Yes, that's what I'm saying.  I think what they experienced is more likely the entering of the location of the island... whether it's a bubble or what-have-you... some kind of distortion that caused turbulence.  Whatever it is that caused it, I don't believe it was a result of John turning the wheel.

[SQUIRT199]

Okay, so, just so I know whether or not we're all on the same page, are you saying that the flash that Ajira 316 experienced had nothing to do with Locke turning the wheel/resetting the wheel??

Yes, that's what I'm saying.  I think what they experienced is more likely the entering of the location of the island... whether it's a bubble or what-have-you... some kind of distortion that caused turbulence.  Whatever it is that caused it, I don't believe it was a result of John turning the wheel.

I agree with Shakey,

[jphimself]

Okay, so, just so I know whether or not we're all on the same page, are you saying that the flash that Ajira 316 experienced had nothing to do with Locke turning the wheel/resetting the wheel??

Yes, that's what I'm saying.  I think what they experienced is more likely the entering of the location of the island... whether it's a bubble or what-have-you... some kind of distortion that caused turbulence.  Whatever it is that caused it, I don't believe it was a result of John turning the wheel.

I agree with Shakey,

I agree with Shakey too and with LostandFree's layout of the sequence of events.

[BobBX542]

Yes, that's what I'm saying.  I think what they experienced is more likely the entering of the location of the island... whether it's a bubble or what-have-you... some kind of distortion that caused turbulence.  Whatever it is that caused it, I don't believe it was a result of John turning the wheel.

Ahhhhh, okay, I just went back and read my post, and I think I see where the miscommunication is...

Well, Locke was in the process of turning the FDW at that point, which as we know, apparently starts the island moving through time. This much we can agree on, right?? So, when he (Locke) turned the wheel (in the statue time period) as the plane was passing through the barrier around the island (2007 time), the island skipped to another time**. Remember, something as simple as time travel can explain away any discrepencies about the sudden change in the time of day. This was an attempt at humor, sometimes it doesn't translate well. Basically I was saying that time travel is simple, which it obviously is not. Laughter can now ensue. LOL

As for why Some went to 1977 and others did not, while talking with my co-workers, something occurred to me. Mrs. Hawking said (while talking to Jack) that if they did not reproduce the flight as closely as possible, then the consequences would be "unpredictable". Maybe that's what she meant. I know the first time we see her this season, she informs Ben about the window and says "God help us all" if they don't go back, but apparently she felt that things wouldn't be that bad the second time we see her, because it went from "god help us all" to "unpredictable". I hope we're in agreement about this at least. LOL

**Edit 3-23-09...So, looking back on this, I don't know why I didn't put this in here, it might have stopped alot of our arguing. But, in my opinion, and according to the way I interpretted the force that causes the island to travel through time, the energy trancends the barriers of space and time. Although the Ajira flight was in 2007 (or 2008, depending on how much leeway we're giving them), it was flying through the same barrier that surrounds the island in statue time, and 2007. Now when Locke released the energy in the island via the FDW, it broke through the barrier, and "grabbed" the Oceanic 815 survivors and brought them to 1977. Some people were left "behind" in 2007 because the Ajira flight was not a carbon copy of the Oceanic flight. Now once again, this is just how I interpretted what TPTB presented to us. I didn't mean to imply that what I said in my original post was the exact way of things, that's my fault.

[Shakey]

I think we may still be in disagreement on the cause of the 316 incident.  I think the plane just passed through/over the location of the island and the proximity to the island caused everything to happen.  The island's wishes resulted in some of them being extracted from the plane and sent back to 1977 while the rest of the plane lost power and crashed due to the penetration of the barrier.  I think you're saying that it's because John turned the wheel.  This last sentence, I believe, is the one thing we're not agreeing on.

[BobBX542]

I think we may still be in disagreement on the cause of the 316 incident.  I think the plane just passed through/over the location of the island and the proximity to the island caused everything to happen.  The island's wishes resulted in some of them being extracted from the plane and sent back to 1977 while the rest of the plane lost power and crashed due to the penetration of the barrier.  I think you're saying that it's because John turned the wheel.  This last sentence, I believe, is the one thing we're not agreeing on.

Okay, now we both see where we stand, sorry for not making that clearer in my original post. I will say this though Shakey, if I am right about that, then be prepared for a huge told you so. LOL I desperatley need a win after being so totally and completely wrong about Lapidus landing that plane (I just didn't think it was possible), AND about Sun/Frank/Ben being in a different time period than Jack/Kate/Sawyer/etc. Do you kow what it feels like getting the double whammy in one episode?? It sucks I tells ya.

[Shakey]

Okay, now we both see where we stand, sorry for not making that clearer in my original post. I will say this though Shakey, if I am right about that, then be prepared for a huge told you so. LOL I desperatley need a win after being so totally and completely wrong about Lapidus landing that plane (I just didn't think it was possible), AND about Sun/Frank/Ben being in a different time period than Jack/Kate/Sawyer/etc. Do you kow what it feels like getting the double whammy in one episode?? It sucks I tells ya.

I got hit even worse.  I posted something in the American Idol thread where I made two statements in one post.  Both statements were wrong.

And, I'm fully prepared for an "I told you so"... no worries.  But, for you to deliver that, it must be shown that Locke was the cause.  Absence of that demonstration means that he wasn't the cause.

[jphimself]

As a way of, perhaps, making the discussion more complex, here is where I have to part company with Shakey when he says, "The island's wishes resulted in some of them being extracted from the plane and sent back to 1977 while the rest of the plane lost power and crashed due to the penetration of the barrier."

I know that several characters have made this kind of reference throughout the course of the series, but I find it hard to accept that we are talking about the Island as some kind of thinking being.  I prefer to believe that what we are seeing is the product of the rules of time/space physics, at least as understood or interpreted by TPTB.

Whether those rules require the precise duplication of the 815 flight is also a little out there for me.  So, I guess this is where I still disagree with Bob.  I lean here toward some explanation that involves who has been or must be in 1977 DI-town for the future (1977 - 2004) to play out as they have always played out.  If I try to be more specific than that my head will explode.

As a charter member of the bad theory club, I fully expect "I told you so's" from far and wide.

[Shakey]

As a way of, perhaps, making the discussion more complex, here is where I have to part company with Shakey when he says, "The island's wishes resulted in some of them being extracted from the plane and sent back to 1977 while the rest of the plane lost power and crashed due to the penetration of the barrier."

I know that several characters have made this kind of reference throughout the course of the series, but I find it hard to accept that we are talking about the Island as some kind of thinking being.  I prefer to believe that what we are seeing is the product of the rules of time/space physics, at least as understood or interpreted by TPTB.

I refer to the "island's wishes" but I'm saying that just to give the phenomenon a name.  It may be Jacob, it may be destiny, it may be the universe... I was simply meaning that something required them to be in 1977 and it excluded the rest of the plane. 

[BobBX542]

Okay, now we both see where we stand, sorry for not making that clearer in my original post. I will say this though Shakey, if I am right about that, then be prepared for a huge told you so. LOL I desperatley need a win after being so totally and completely wrong about Lapidus landing that plane (I just didn't think it was possible), AND about Sun/Frank/Ben being in a different time period than Jack/Kate/Sawyer/etc. Do you kow what it feels like getting the double whammy in one episode?? It sucks I tells ya.

I got hit even worse.  I posted something in the American Idol thread where I made two statements in one post.  Both statements were wrong.

And, I'm fully prepared for an "I told you so"... no worries.  But, for you to deliver that, it must be shown that Locke was the cause.  Absence of that demonstration means that he wasn't the cause.

My "you can't disprove it so it's true" logic isn't going to work this time?? LOL, okay, fair enough. BUT, if you're right, and some other means is shown that brought the Ajira flight down, I get to say you smell.

As a way of, perhaps, making the discussion more complex, here is where I have to part company with Shakey when he says, "The island's wishes resulted in some of them being extracted from the plane and sent back to 1977 while the rest of the plane lost power and crashed due to the penetration of the barrier."

I know that several characters have made this kind of reference throughout the course of the series, but I find it hard to accept that we are talking about the Island as some kind of thinking being.  I prefer to believe that what we are seeing is the product of the rules of time/space physics, at least as understood or interpreted by TPTB.

Whether those rules require the precise duplication of the 815 flight is also a little out there for me.  So, I guess this is where I still disagree with Bob.  I lean here toward some explanation that involves who has been or must be in 1977 DI-town for the future (1977 - 2004) to play out as they have always played out.  If I try to be more specific than that my head will explode.

As a charter member of the bad theory club, I fully expect "I told you so's" from far and wide.

Oh, don't misunderstand, my definition for "duplicating" the flight is to simply have as many of the O6 as possible on board. Some people want to talk about Hurley bringing the guitar because Charlie brought one, so I say to that, if that's the case, why didn't Hurley have to check it?? Charlie did. You can't be so detail oriented, and then forget the details about your details. So, to sum up my thought about that, basically, the way I'm thinking is that because they were one person short, not all of them went to the same place/time. If there had been fewer people on the plane, then the distribution would have been worse, but if Aaron had come with them, then maybe they all would have gone to the same place and the same time, but we'll never know until they tell us.

[JMart]

Yes, that's what I'm saying.  I think what they experienced is more likely the entering of the location of the island... whether it's a bubble or what-have-you... some kind of distortion that caused turbulence.  Whatever it is that caused it, I don't believe it was a result of John turning the wheel.

Ahhhhh, okay, I just went back and read my post, and I think I see where the miscommunication is...

Well, Locke was in the process of turning the FDW at that point, which as we know, apparently starts the island moving through time. This much we can agree on, right?? So, when he (Locke) turned the wheel (in the statue time period) as the plane was passing through the barrier around the island (2007 time), the island skipped to another time**. Remember, something as simple as time travel can explain away any discrepencies about the sudden change in the time of day. This was an attempt at humor, sometimes it doesn't translate well. Basically I was saying that time travel is simple, which it obviously is not. Laughter can now ensue. LOL

As for why Some went to 1977 and others did not, while talking with my co-workers, something occurred to me. Mrs. Hawking said (while talking to Jack) that if they did not reproduce the flight as closely as possible, then the consequences would be "unpredictable". Maybe that's what she meant. I know the first time we see her this season, she informs Ben about the window and says "God help us all" if they don't go back, but apparently she felt that things wouldn't be that bad the second time we see her, because it went from "god help us all" to "unpredictable". I hope we're in agreement about this at least. LOL

**Edit 3-23-09...So, looking back on this, I don't know why I didn't put this in here, it might have stopped alot of our arguing. But, in my opinion, and according to the way I interpretted the force that causes the island to travel through time, the energy trancends the barriers of space and time. Although the Ajira flight was in 2007 (or 2008, depending on how much leeway we're giving them), it was flying through the same barrier that surrounds the island in statue time, and 2007. Now when Locke released the energy in the island via the FDW, it broke through the barrier, and "grabbed" the Oceanic 815 survivors and brought them to 1977. Some people were left "behind" in 2007 because the Ajira flight was not a carbon copy of the Oceanic flight. Now once again, this is just how I interpretted what TPTB presented to us. I didn't mean to imply that what I said in my original post was the exact way of things, that's my fault.

from what i'm gathering.. you're saying that locke turned the key right before ajira entered the island's barrier field??

you must remember that when locke fixed the wheel, he shot to 2007/8 from 2004/5.... on island people jumped from the statue time to 1974.... where they have been stuck for 3 years before the ajira flight even came to the island.

[Shakey]

from what i'm gathering.. you're saying that locke turned the key right before ajira entered the island's barrier field??

you must remember that when locke fixed the wheel, he shot to 2007/8 from 2004/5.... on island people jumped from the statue time to 1974.... where they have been stuck for 3 years before the ajira flight even came to the island.

Hey, Bob... bet ya didn't see me tag up with JMart. LOL

[SQUIRT199]

Yes, that's what I'm saying.  I think what they experienced is more likely the entering of the location of the island... whether it's a bubble or what-have-you... some kind of distortion that caused turbulence.  Whatever it is that caused it, I don't believe it was a result of John turning the wheel.

Ahhhhh, okay, I just went back and read my post, and I think I see where the miscommunication is...

Well, Locke was in the process of turning the FDW at that point, which as we know, apparently starts the island moving through time. This much we can agree on, right??  right I agree it started the island time jumpingSo, when he (Locke) turned the wheel (in the statue time period) this is where you lose me,  if he was turning the wheel at the same time the plane was passing through the islands barrier, I say he couldnt turn the wheel and be on the plane in a coffin and furthermore after he turned the wheel (when it was 2004) or whatever or if you prefer, (since the statue was still erect it was say as little as 100 years 1904 or as much a a few thousand?  0004?)  so he went from that time to 2007 and at least a week if not more passed before he attempted suicide and jack and ben recovered his body from the funeral parlourand got him on the plane as the plane was passing through the barrier around the island (2007 time), the island skipped to another time**. Remember, something as simple as time travel can explain away any discrepencies about the sudden change in the time of day. This was an attempt at humor, sometimes it doesn't translate well. Basically I was saying that time travel is simple, which it obviously is not. Laughter can now ensue. LOL  I am laughing now:)

As for why Some went to 1977 and others did not, while talking with my co-workers, something occurred to me. Mrs. Hawking said (while talking to Jack) that if they did not reproduce the flight as closely as possible, then the consequences would be "unpredictable". Maybe that's what she meant. I know the first time we see her this season, she informs Ben about the window and says "God help us all" if they don't go back, but apparently she felt that things wouldn't be that bad the second time we see her, because it went from "god help us all" to "unpredictable". I hope we're in agreement about this at least. LOL  we definately agree some went ot one, but I dont knwo if we can say it is because of what mrs hawking said about recreating, I still dont wuite understand why they had to re create events as close to 815 as possible?

**Edit 3-23-09...So, looking back on this, I don't know why I didn't put this in here, it might have stopped alot of our arguing. But, in my opinion, and according to the way I interpretted the force that causes the island to travel through time, the energy trancends the barriers of space and time. Although the Ajira flight was in 2007 (or 2008, depending on how much leeway we're giving them), it was flying through the same barrier that surrounds the island in statue time, and 2007. Now when Locke released the energy in the island via the FDW, it broke through the barrier, and "grabbed" the Oceanic 815 survivors and brought them to 1977. Some people were left "behind" in 2007 because the Ajira flight was not a carbon copy of the Oceanic flight. Now once again, this is just how I interpretted what TPTB presented to us. I didn't mean to imply that what I said in my original post was the exact way of things, that's my fault.

[BobBX542]

from what i'm gathering.. you're saying that locke turned the key (I'm assuming you mean wheel, but I will accept key as a synonym, LOL) right before ajira entered the island's barrier field??

you must remember that when locke fixed the wheel, he shot to 2007/8 from 2004/5 (Where exactly are you getting this year from??).... on island people jumped from the statue time to 1974 .... where they have been stuck for 3 years before the ajira flight even came to the island.

I feel as if I have explained where my logic came from pretty clearly, so I'm not getting into that again, but what I don't understand is how you're constructing the arguement you're making. So, when Locke goes down the well, and the island jumps time to the time period where the statue is whole, you're saying that Locke went to to 2004, and then to 2007 while Sawyer and them went to 1974?? How did Locke get from 2004 to 2007?? And where are you getting 2004 from??

If you're still not clear on my line of thinking, then just re-read my post, because I don't think I can clearly explain it anymore.