Author Topic: The losties are changing the future  (Read 2102 times)

Offline Harry Erickson

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The losties are changing the future
« on: March 16, 2009, 10:37:52 AM »
The losties are obviously changing the future, because they are the past, faraday says whatever happened happened, well what their doing now is whatever happened, after all how do you think Faraday told charlotte to leave, daniel cried about the island cuz he knew about it, desmond got the flash.
They are not changing the past they are the past

Offline mrose4243

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Re: The losties are changing the future
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2009, 02:45:55 PM »
Glad you posted this.  I was thinking about that 'whatever happened, happened' when Saywer talked Juliet into delivering Amy's baby.

Did Juliet already deliver it in her past and doesn't remember?  What if Sawyer wasn't able to convince her to perform the delivery?  Would the baby have died?  and if so, how would that effect the world? And, if the Losties weren't there the first time around, who was head of security, and wouldn't that person be out of a job, thus effecting their lives.  Etc...etc...etc...

This is why time travel is a fantasy!  Unless there's another dimension, I can't logically give this story credibility.  Even though I love this show!

Offline TheBrightandTheDark

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Re: The losties are changing the future
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2009, 03:29:13 PM »
My brain hurts when I think about time travel. Especially when there aren't rules. Lucky for us, Lost's time-traveling has rules. You can't change what happened (and since there are always exceptions, there's Desmond, but he doesn't come into play yet)...

"Whatever happened, happened" means that if Sawyer and Juliet kill the Others that shot Paul, they were always there in 1974 to shoot those guys. It means that Daniel always told Charlotte that she would die if she came back. It means that Juliet always delivered Amy's baby, and Sawyer was always the head of security.

Juliet doesn't deliver the baby in her past; to her consciousness, it's the present. She had nothing to remember because she's never done it before.

Time-travel is a tough thing to wrap the mind around. TPTB understand this, and I can't believe that they would set up rules to help us understand, just to break those rules and have our brains unravel alongside the already-limited plausibility of traveling through time.

Offline Harry Erickson

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Re: The losties are changing the future
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2009, 09:24:50 PM »
My brain hurts when I think about time travel. Especially when there aren't rules. Lucky for us, Lost's time-traveling has rules. You can't change what happened (and since there are always exceptions, there's Desmond, but he doesn't come into play yet)...

"Whatever happened, happened" means that if Sawyer and Juliet kill the Others that shot Paul, they were always there in 1974 to shoot those guys. It means that Daniel always told Charlotte that she would die if she came back. It means that Juliet always delivered Amy's baby, and Sawyer was always the head of security.

Juliet doesn't deliver the baby in her past; to her consciousness, it's the present. She had nothing to remember because she's never done it before.


Time-travel is a tough thing to wrap the mind around. TPTB understand this, and I can't believe that they would set up rules to help us understand, just to break those rules and have our brains unravel alongside the already-limited plausibility of traveling through time.

It is so hard to explain this, the losties are what happened

Offline opgelost

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Re: The losties are changing the future
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2009, 07:35:36 AM »
Quote
if the Losties weren't there the first time around

There is no other time, when things happen differently.
This is the first and only time it happens and it happens as showed.

Offline Creflo

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Re: The losties are changing the future
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2009, 10:27:19 AM »
Above post is a great way to explain it.

To paraphrase Faraday: "whatever happens, happened."

It's not how I believe time travel should play out, but it's convenient for storytelling.

Offline Jungle Otter

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Re: The losties are changing the future
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2009, 01:36:09 PM »


Great Scott!! It is interesting they went back to the time DHARMA was on the island! It could mean that that point in time inherently contains some sort of cosmic significance. Almost as if it were the temporal junction point for the entire space-time continuum. On the other hand, it could just be an amazing coincidence.

Offline BrianIsLost2

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Re: The losties are changing the future
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2009, 07:07:12 PM »
Quote
if the Losties weren't there the first time around

There is no other time, when things happen differently.
This is the first and only time it happens and it happens as showed.


Thank you.  The reason that Juliet does not remember delivering the baby is because she had not done it yet.  People have to remember that there is a difference between a personís life and "real time"  For example: Juliet is born, goes to the island and then goes back in time to deliver a baby.  Lets say she then grows old and dies in that time period.  Meanwhile she would have been born off the island and would be on her way back to do it all over again.  Just because she went back in time does not mean that she would some how remember the stuff she did on the island when she is born again.  Because she had not done those things yet.  If you just keep in mind that time is circular, or even simultaneous, and not a straight line then it is easier to grasp.

Offline Creflo

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Re: The losties are changing the future
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2009, 12:05:58 PM »
...that point in time inherently contains some sort of cosmic significance.

The name for that point in time is The Incident.

Offline JBRam

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Re: The losties are changing the future
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2009, 04:40:44 PM »
The future cannot be changed. Whatever happened, happened. Whatever happens, happened. Whatever happened, will happen.

This means Daniel has no choice but to tell Charlotte not to return. It WILL happen. This means that Juliet was always the person who delivered Amy's baby, BUT Juliet had to go back in time in order to accomplish that. There is only one timeline. This has been explicitly stated multiple times.

Offline Creflo

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Re: The losties are changing the future
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2009, 10:30:44 AM »
Agreed.

Just because Daniel has trepidation now ("now" = S5 1977) about telling child C.S. Lewis to never come back, he always told and will have always been telling her.  This is not even an event which 'originally' happened in Daniel's proper time.  C.S. Lewis told him a creepy adult told her when she was a child, so it was always a time traveling Dan.  Nothing will have been changed.  Why would he have told her that once upon a time?

Come to think of it...why is having this change of heart anyway?  If he doesn't want her to die and somehow was able to affect time, shouldn't he have been continuing to try to convince her to stay away from nosebleedville?

Offline lostfromthestart

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Re: The losties are changing the future
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2009, 11:39:24 AM »
The future cannot be changed. Whatever happened, happened. Whatever happens, happened. Whatever happened, will happen.

This means Daniel has no choice but to tell Charlotte not to return. It WILL happen. This means that Juliet was always the person who delivered Amy's baby, BUT Juliet had to go back in time in order to accomplish that. There is only one timeline. This has been explicitly stated multiple times.

Remember, if Sawyer hadn't killed the two others, they would have taken Amy who they had hooded and bound.  There would have been no baby Ethan whose already played a part in S1.  So the Losties were always there to save her.

Offline lostfromthestart

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Re: The losties are changing the future
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2009, 11:40:28 AM »
And Jin was always there to teach young Charlotte Korean.  And possibly Klingon.

Offline Harry Erickson

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Re: The losties are changing the future
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2009, 12:16:44 PM »
The future cannot be changed. Whatever happened, happened. Whatever happens, happened. Whatever happened, will happen.

This means Daniel has no choice but to tell Charlotte not to return. It WILL happen. This means that Juliet was always the person who delivered Amy's baby, BUT Juliet had to go back in time in order to accomplish that. There is only one timeline. This has been explicitly stated multiple times.

There is only one timeline and that is a record its playing over and over again

Offline Creflo

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Re: The losties are changing the future
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2009, 09:29:06 AM »
And Jin was always there to teach young Charlotte Korean.  And possibly Klingon.

:FACEPALM:

Wow.  I can't believe I didn't think of that.  It makes perfect sense.

However, if he was to have been teaching it to her in the '70s then she'd be able to understand the conversation she overhears between him and Jin in Season 4.  Of course, she always understood that conversation!