Has Jin changed the past?

[JackCrow]

Not to mention the asian guy she would be looking for would be in his fifties, and even if she did remember "an asian guy", I doubt she would still remember his face that well after that much time

Jack

[CaseyMac]

I don't think Jin changed the past.

Possibly Danielle forgot about the crazy Korean dude who said he was from the island: her ship had crashed, she was on a raft in the stormy ocean, there's a weird radio signal, a smoke monster destroys some of her team and possibly brainwashes the rest, she finds a 19th century slave ship in the middle of the jungle, her teammates go crazy, and oh yeah her husband tries to kill her....just before she gives birth all by her lonesome and the child is kidnapped by strange, disembodied voices... that's a lot of stuff happening. It's possible she just forgot about Jin. That would explain why she told Sayid that she didn't see anyone else on the island (or she figured Jin just disappeared again and was a hallucination/part of the island, but not a person).

Though this theory doesn't really work if she actually saw the people who took Alex...   

i understand that a ton of bad things happened to her... but i mean, if you were with someone and they just disappeared in front of your eyes... then that would probably be something you'd remember.

Anywhere else in the world, yeah definitely. She probably even remembers when Jin just vanished. But on this island, tons of crazy stuff happens.

I think Danielle likely remembered the incident, just didn't connect the present day Jin with the guy from the island who vanished before her eyes 20 years ago. Plus, she wasn't the most friendly, talkative person on the island, and had a preoccupation with Aaron at the time.....oh yeah and she was looney as a bat.

I think you are totally right that she would have remembered what happened, I just find it plausible that she didn't make the connection.

[Jugdish]

Jin has not really changed the future.
1) they were always looking for the radio tower, They heard it on their boat and on the beach. They wanted to find it with or without Jin. They just asked him if he knew where it was, not if there was one.
2) The guy still lost him arm, just like danielle told Sayid.
3) Her team still had the "sickness". She still took the firing pin out of the one rifle, just as she told Sayid. She still killed her team because of the sickness.
4) She may or may not of remembered Jin, but she was crazy by the time they meet again.

All the events still happened as she explained them to Sayid in Season 1. Future was unchanged.

[WhatThe]

     Yeah, I think Daniel's explanation that time is on a string and cannot be changed is vital to the time jumps. Things cannot be changed because they already happened, including the jumps. Thats why Daniel said that the Jughead bomb was going to be safe whether he fixed it or not because it hadn't gone off yet in the future.

I didn't think Daniel said the bomb was going to be safe "whether he fixed it or not", but that he knew his idea TO render it safe would work because it didn't go off in the future.

[WhatThe]

Jin has not really changed the future.
1) they were always looking for the radio tower, They heard it on their boat and on the beach. They wanted to find it with or without Jin. They just asked him if he knew where it was, not if there was one.
2) The guy still lost him arm, just like danielle told Sayid.
3) Her team still had the "sickness". She still took the firing pin out of the one rifle, just as she told Sayid. She still killed her team because of the sickness.
4) She may or may not of remembered Jin, but she was crazy by the time they meet again.

All the events still happened as she explained them to Sayid in Season 1. Future was unchanged.

I agree, with the added assumption that all of the things that happened with Jin there still happened even without Jin there. The reason Rousseau didn't remember Jin when they met back in season 1 is because Jin had not gone back in time yet, so she couldn't have remembered him nor he remembered her. As someone else already stated, if Rousseau was still alive she would have suddenly had the "memory" of finding Jin when she and her team were about to land on the island in the storm.

[WhatThe]

Also, she never mentioned smokey to the losties, maybe she never saw smokey before, but because Jin was leading them through the jungle they did.

Danielle did, though, talk about Smokey as if she had experienced it before. On their way to the Black Rock, she told them Smokey was a security system, and when they were running from it she told them to hide inside the trees. Both things seemed to indicate that she had experienced seeing and dealing with Smokey before.

[JBRam]

I kind of want to go back and watch the times she comes to the camp.  How many of those times is Jin actually there as well.  I know of one time when she comes and takes Aaron that Jin is not there because he is on the raft. 

At the end of season 3 when she comes to the camp to take them all to the radio tower Jin is there because he is one of the ones that stays behind to shoot the Others.  But did she actually come into contact with him.   I really dont know.

Anyone have a better memory than me on this subject.

Good question... I was wondering this as well. I don't think that Jin and Danielle ever really met, but Jin did know of Danielle because of hearsay.

[MichiganFan]

I was glad that TPTB put in the comment from Charlotte last week about meeting Daniel in her past. It was meant to show that time travel isn't changing anything. Jin has always traveled to the past. While it might seem that his stopping Danielle from going in the temple was changing the past, it wasn't because he had already travelled to the past, just as Daniel had already spoken to Charlotte, even though he hadn't warned her yet in his present. He mentioned that Desmond is different, so he was able to implant a new memory.

This still gets me scratching my head, because the characters always state "you can't change the past", but what about the future? BUT, since the future IS the past in the future, you shouldn't be able to change the future either, which would explain course-correcting. The issue seems to be that some of the Lostees left the island, which they weren't supposed to do, which in effect changed the future. Course-correcting is a bit difficult in that curcumstance - the island is trying to unring a bell.

That said, is seems like Danielle would have always remembered a guy disappearing twice.

[PK]

There was a similar question about Jin before, this is what I think:

Even if Rousseau knew Jin, what good would it be to tell everyone.  There is a language barrier and Jin wouldn't know her because it hadn't happened yet since it would be part of his future.  Remember, even though this is Rousseau's past, it is still Jin's future.
Rousseau doesn't know anyone there either.
Besides, the others have files on everyone from the plane it would be easy to know something about Jin especially if she was accused of being an "other".
Most people would probably find her a little crazy if she was talking about such things because everyone had just crashed.  They would think she just went mad from being on the island for so long.  She is parading around with a gun and a strange look on her face. 
What she would say wouldn't make any sense.  Also Jin never revealed any information to her except that he was married and she had no idea who his wife is. Plus what would she say: "Hey Jin, you are the one who disappeared and i tried to kill you after I killed my husband and team." That would go over well.

As for changing the past, I think the past hasn't changed but the course may be taking detours.  There is only one time line and anytime there is a course correction (something that should happen doesn't, so something else has to happen to get things back on track), memories are rewritten/added/erased.  Remember in 5x02 when Charlotte said, ".. It's the weirdest thing earlier.  I was thinking about my mum and all of a sudden I couldn't remember her maiden name.  Isn't that odd?"
Also Charlotte mentioned she hadn't had a nose bleed since she was a child.

Also take into account that Lost shifts between flash backs, the present, flash forwards, etc so we are watching pieces.  Just cause we think we are watching the present, for all we know on the actual time line, we may be watching the future or the past.  So we get to enjoy Lost all year round putting those pieces in the right order during the long season breaks ^_^

[Blitz Wing]

Danielle told Sayid that she had never seen an other - but now she has met Jin in the flashback so has this now changed, as far she knows he is an other.

I don't think Danielle thinks Jin is an Other. They rescued him off his makeshift raft. He did disappear once in front of her eyes, the second time Danielle saw Jin she thought he was "sick" and started shooting at him. Jin ran off, as far as Danielle knew he disappeared into the forest and not into thin air again.

I'd be interested in known exactly how many times Jin & Danielle did meet up in the prior episodes, and if they even interacted together.

[opgelost]

I kind of want to go back and watch the times she comes to the camp.  How many of those times is Jin actually there as well.  I know of one time when she comes and takes Aaron that Jin is not there because he is on the raft. 

At the end of season 3 when she comes to the camp to take them all to the radio tower Jin is there because he is one of the ones that stays behind to shoot the Others.  But did she actually come into contact with him.   I really dont know.

Anyone have a better memory than me on this subject.

When Rousseau comes to warn them that the others are coming for the boy, Jin isn't on the raft, the raft leaves later that day.
It's three days after Aaron's birth (Jin was present with Kate at Aaron's birth, but they didn't show him when Sawyer flashes to
that time and watches Kate and Claire). Walt sees Rousseau and warns Michael. Rousseau comes to the beachcamp, Jin comes out of his tent and
walks to Rousseau with a lot of other people. Jin stands right in front of Rousseau and she begins to tell that the others are coming and that they
have to run, hide or die. Rousseau doesn't seem to recognise Jin even if she talks to him.

When they go to the radiotower, Jin first stays behind to shoot the others, but later everybody meets, except Charlie who died. It's when they split
in camp Locke that goes to the barracks and camp Jack. Rousseau goes with Alex and Locke, Jin goes with Sun and Jack.

I don't think Jin changed anything, there is only one past. There are no two pasts, one where Jin isn't there and one when he is there. He always was there, because that's what happened. Daniel made it claer that whatever happened, happened, you cannot change that. There is one street, you can go back and forth in it, but never create a new street.  Chang also made it claer, you can't go back and kill Hitler, that's ridiculous, there are rules. Mrs. Hawking made it clear, you can't change things, the universe will coursecorrect it.

I don't know why Rousseau didn't recognise the man that disappeared and from who she thought that he was the carrier of the sickness.
Maybe they will meet again and tell her that she will meet Jin in the future and that he will not understand or recognise her. I get the feeling that
the losties are involved in everything that happened on the island, taking Alex, finding the wheel, the numbers, the purge etc.

Desmond is the only one, who can change things and like I said before, he is the one that caused everything. The plane crashes, because he doesn't push the button. The island becomes visible, because he turns the key. The 06 are rescued, because he contacts Penny, who comes to rescue them.

[Wishbone]

Jin has not really changed the future.
1) they were always looking for the radio tower, They heard it on their boat and on the beach. They wanted to find it with or without Jin. They just asked him if he knew where it was, not if there was one.
2) The guy still lost him arm, just like danielle told Sayid.
3) Her team still had the "sickness". She still took the firing pin out of the one rifle, just as she told Sayid. She still killed her team because of the sickness.
4) She may or may not of remembered Jin, but she was crazy by the time they meet again.

All the events still happened as she explained them to Sayid in Season 1. Future was unchanged.

I agree with this totally - everything still happenned, like the guy losing his arm and getting the sickness, but I still think he has changed the past because the story Danielle told Sayid would now involve the temple and smokey - I don't think she didn't tell Sayid about those things to be sneaky, they hadn't happenned. So whilst nothing they do can change the future, it can change the past.

The only exception with this is that Daniel changed Desmond's past by going to the hatch and this has had a knock on effect on Desmond's future. The question is - would Desmond have somehow ended up going to see Elouise without Daniels intervention?

Time travel is very confusing.

[Souldrinker]

He didn't change anything , it all happened before , like when Locke tells Richard to go visit him when he is born a few years later. The fact that Rousseau didn't remember Jin is simple...she didn't see anyone in 16 years , the others stole her child and she saw a crazy black cloud going berserk on her team and who knows what else... i think her brain is pretty messed up so she just forgot how Jin looks in 16 years.
I also read quite often , as a proof that Jin changed something , that back in season 1 when they were heading for the Black Rock she said that it was "here where Montand lost his arm" and we now saw it wasn't the same place...but she was referring to the Dark Territory in general , not the exact spot

Furthermore it was stated often enough that you can't change anything , what happened happened...nobody can do that - save Desmond who is very special
 

[jphimself]

Desmond is the only one, who can change things and like I said before, he is the one that caused everything. The plane crashes, because he doesn't push the button. The island becomes visible, because he turns the key. The 06 are rescued, because he contacts Penny, who comes to rescue them.

Can Desmond really change things?

Daniel says the rules, presumably the rules stated by Mrs. Hawking that time course corrects, don't apply to Des.

We have, however seen him prevent Charlie from being struck by lightening and drowning while trying to save Claire.  Are these changes in the course of events or only slight adjustments?  After all, Charlie still ends up dying in the underwater hatch.

Before that event, Des tells Charlie that he is going to die and that there is nothing anyone can do about it, seemingly expressing his personal frustration at the failure of his efforts.  Is Des stating his acceptance of the inevitability of time's flow, or was he just setting things up so Charlie would be there to save Des from the effects of Bakunin's hand granade?  Damned if I know.

[Souldrinker]

If you look at the later situations in which charlie is supposed to die (like the arrow in his throat) , this situations are caused by Desmond's Visions...if Desmond didn't tell Charlie about his visions , or didn't try to make them come true (like when he went "camping" with Jin , Charlie and Hurley in Catch-22) Charlie wouldn't have come into this situations...so the question is did Des change something when he saved Charlie the first (three) times and just "send" him into death with his vision about the Looking Glass?