Has Jin changed the past?

[Wishbone]

I'm really confused about this so bear with me.

Danielle told Sayid that she had never seen an other - but now she has met Jin in the flashback so has this now changed, as far she knows he is an other.

Also, she never mentioned smokey to the losties, maybe she never saw smokey before, but because Jin was leading them through the jungle they did.

So is the sickness anything to do with smokey? because they got sick originally without him.

If the Danielle we knew at the time when 815 crashed had not experienced the things she has in the flashback will this not change the Danielle we knew?

help me

[jodeci]

i too am very confused about this!
why, when danielle comes to the camp looking for sayid, does she not recognize jin, and vice versa?  if time-jumping jin recognizes danielle when she introduces her self, why doesn't she remember him??

i think my head is going to explode   

[Madam P]

why, when danielle comes to the camp looking for sayid, does she not recognize jin, and vice versa?  if time-jumping jin recognizes danielle when she introduces her self, why doesn't she remember him??

Because when she came to camp looking for Sayid, Jin had not time-jumped yet, so it hadn't happened yet.  There was nothing to remember. 

Remember how Desmond suddenly woke up on the boat with Penny and had the "memory" of Daniel telling him to go find his mother?  Des didn't have that memory before, because it hadn't happened until just then.  Same thing with Jin and Danielle.  Except, sadly, Danielle is dead already.  If she was around, she would suddenly be saying "Oh I remember you!"

I don't think Jin has changed anything.  They were looking for the radio tower anyway; they would likely have eventually found it and passed by the Smokey-hole and gotten sucked down it and all... just like what happened.  I don't know about Danielle, though -- she was ready to go down too, wasn't she?  But Jin talked her out of it 'because of the baby.'   Maybe Robert would've made her stay back anyway, if Jin wasn't there... or maybe the island let Jin live from the freighter explosion because it needed him to save Danielle and baby Alex... 

It still makes your head explode, anyway, doesn't it? 

[Cowboy Up]

why, when danielle comes to the camp looking for sayid, does she not recognize jin, and vice versa?  if time-jumping jin recognizes danielle when she introduces her self, why doesn't she remember him??

Because when she came to camp looking for Sayid, Jin had not time-jumped yet, so it hadn't happened yet.  There was nothing to remember. 

Remember how Desmond suddenly woke up on the boat with Penny and had the "memory" of Daniel telling him to go find his mother?  Des didn't have that memory before, because it hadn't happened until just then.  Same thing with Jin and Danielle.  Except, sadly, Danielle is dead already.  If she was around, she would suddenly be saying "Oh I remember you!"

I don't think Jin has changed anything.  They were looking for the radio tower anyway; they would likely have eventually found it and passed by the Smokey-hole and gotten sucked down it and all... just like what happened.  I don't know about Danielle, though -- she was ready to go down too, wasn't she?  But Jin talked her out of it 'because of the baby.'   Maybe Robert would've made her stay back anyway, if Jin wasn't there... or maybe the island let Jin live from the freighter explosion because it needed him to save Danielle and baby Alex... 

It still makes your head explode, anyway, doesn't it? 

Nice explaination

[this is some crazy stuff]

why, when danielle comes to the camp looking for sayid, does she not recognize jin, and vice versa?  if time-jumping jin recognizes danielle when she introduces her self, why doesn't she remember him??

Because when she came to camp looking for Sayid, Jin had not time-jumped yet, so it hadn't happened yet.  There was nothing to remember. 

Remember how Desmond suddenly woke up on the boat with Penny and had the "memory" of Daniel telling him to go find his mother?  Des didn't have that memory before, because it hadn't happened until just then.  Same thing with Jin and Danielle.  Except, sadly, Danielle is dead already.  If she was around, she would suddenly be saying "Oh I remember you!"

I don't think Jin has changed anything.  They were looking for the radio tower anyway; they would likely have eventually found it and passed by the Smokey-hole and gotten sucked down it and all... just like what happened.  I don't know about Danielle, though -- she was ready to go down too, wasn't she?  But Jin talked her out of it 'because of the baby.'   Maybe Robert would've made her stay back anyway, if Jin wasn't there... or maybe the island let Jin live from the freighter explosion because it needed him to save Danielle and baby Alex... 

It still makes your head explode, anyway, doesn't it? 

Nice explaination

Nice explanation but not true IMO. 

When Locke talked to Richard in the past he told him to go and see him at birth.   Richard going to see him at birth happened before Locke went back in time.

Since Jin met Russou when she was younger then she should know him when they meet again at the losties camp.  While Jin has not had that moment in time yet in his timeline, it did happen to Russou because it occured when she was like 20

[Madam P]

Nice explanation but not true IMO. 

When Locke talked to Richard in the past he told him to go and see him at birth.   Richard going to see him at birth happened before Locke went back in time.
Since Jin met Russou when she was younger then she should know him when they meet again at the losties camp.  While Jin has not had that moment in time yet in his timeline, it did happen to Russou because it occured when she was like 20

Good point.  But how do you explain the Daniel/Desmond example?  Desmond had no memory of that encounter until the time-trip actually happened.  When Daniel went back to visit Desmond, he meeting a younger Desmond, too, just like Jin was meeting a younger Rousseau.

[Cowboy Up]

why, when danielle comes to the camp looking for sayid, does she not recognize jin, and vice versa?  if time-jumping jin recognizes danielle when she introduces her self, why doesn't she remember him??

Because when she came to camp looking for Sayid, Jin had not time-jumped yet, so it hadn't happened yet.  There was nothing to remember. 

Remember how Desmond suddenly woke up on the boat with Penny and had the "memory" of Daniel telling him to go find his mother?  Des didn't have that memory before, because it hadn't happened until just then.  Same thing with Jin and Danielle.  Except, sadly, Danielle is dead already.  If she was around, she would suddenly be saying "Oh I remember you!"

I don't think Jin has changed anything.  They were looking for the radio tower anyway; they would likely have eventually found it and passed by the Smokey-hole and gotten sucked down it and all... just like what happened.  I don't know about Danielle, though -- she was ready to go down too, wasn't she?  But Jin talked her out of it 'because of the baby.'   Maybe Robert would've made her stay back anyway, if Jin wasn't there... or maybe the island let Jin live from the freighter explosion because it needed him to save Danielle and baby Alex... 

It still makes your head explode, anyway, doesn't it? 

Nice explaination

Nice explanation but not true IMO. 

When Locke talked to Richard in the past he told him to go and see him at birth.   Richard going to see him at birth happened before Locke went back in time.

Since Jin met Russou when she was younger then she should know him when they meet again at the losties camp.  While Jin has not had that moment in time yet in his timeline, it did happen to Russou because it occured when she was like 20

I dont think so, it isnt a loop, its an original timeline, IMO

[Roman122]

Nice explanation but not true IMO. 

When Locke talked to Richard in the past he told him to go and see him at birth.   Richard going to see him at birth happened before Locke went back in time.
Since Jin met Russou when she was younger then she should know him when they meet again at the losties camp.  While Jin has not had that moment in time yet in his timeline, it did happen to Russou because it occured when she was like 20

Good point.  But how do you explain the Daniel/Desmond example?  Desmond had no memory of that encounter until the time-trip actually happened.  When Daniel went back to visit Desmond, he meeting a younger Desmond, too, just like Jin was meeting a younger Rousseau.

I think I can help here. When Daniel knocked on the hatch door so that he could speak with Desmond, this didn't happen in the original timeline... remember "the rules don't apply to you Desmond". Daniel changed the past with that interaction because the rules don't apply to Des. Also, I agree with the theory that she should have recognized him since she met him when she was younger.... Hope this helps.

[Mrs Alpert]

I don't think Jin changed the past.

Possibly Danielle forgot about the crazy Korean dude who said he was from the island: her ship had crashed, she was on a raft in the stormy ocean, there's a weird radio signal, a smoke monster destroys some of her team and possibly brainwashes the rest, she finds a 19th century slave ship in the middle of the jungle, her teammates go crazy, and oh yeah her husband tries to kill her....just before she gives birth all by her lonesome and the child is kidnapped by strange, disembodied voices... that's a lot of stuff happening. It's possible she just forgot about Jin. That would explain why she told Sayid that she didn't see anyone else on the island (or she figured Jin just disappeared again and was a hallucination/part of the island, but not a person).

Though this theory doesn't really work if she actually saw the people who took Alex...   

[opgelost]

When Locke talked to Richard in the past he told him to go and see him at birth.   Richard going to see him at birth happened before Locke went back in time.

Also Charlotte remembers Daniel warning her as a kid. But this hasn't happened yet.

[Wishbone]

I agree that they can't change the future as in if something is meant to happen it will happen no mater how you intervene - as it did with Charlie dying, no matter how many times Des tried to prevent it. However, I don't believe that Danielle would forget Jin, technicaly, he is the one who saved her life. I didn't see her hubby trying to stop her, he was already in the hole (or the opening of the hole) so what would have happened if Jin hadn't been there. He has to have changed something, even if the end results are the same.

[Mrs Alpert]

If Jin didn't say there was a radio tower on the island, maybe the team wouldn't have gone trekking through the jungle so soon and awoken Smokey? If Jin hadn't stopped Danielle from going into the hole, she would have gone in and maybe wouldn't have killed everyone (if Smokey caused the sickness, she'd get it too).

So it's possible that Jin was always there...to direct the team into the jungle, to run into Smokey, and to stop Danielle from going into the hole. Personally I agree with you Wishbone, that Danielle wouldn't have forgotten Jin, but trying to fit that into figuring things out just makes me dizzy. I'd rather think that the crazy French chick blocked out that memory than consider the multitudinous paradoxes this storyline creates. 

[CaseyMac]

     Yeah, I think Daniel's explanation that time is on a string and cannot be changed is vital to the time jumps. Things cannot be changed because they already happened, including the jumps. Thats why Daniel said that the Jughead bomb was going to be safe whether he fixed it or not because it hadn't gone off yet in the future.

This is less like the "Back to the Future" or "Quantum Leap" time travel where you can break things and have an effect on the future. What has already happened is set in stone so you cannot change things.

Therefore Danielle likely just didn't connect Jin from 1988 to present Jin because of any number of reasons. IMHO

The only wild card to this, as has been earlier stated, is Desmond. Daniel told us the rules of time don't apply to him the same way, likely because of when the hatch blew. So, we'll see how this plays out.

[JMart]

I don't think Jin changed the past.

Possibly Danielle forgot about the crazy Korean dude who said he was from the island: her ship had crashed, she was on a raft in the stormy ocean, there's a weird radio signal, a smoke monster destroys some of her team and possibly brainwashes the rest, she finds a 19th century slave ship in the middle of the jungle, her teammates go crazy, and oh yeah her husband tries to kill her....just before she gives birth all by her lonesome and the child is kidnapped by strange, disembodied voices... that's a lot of stuff happening. It's possible she just forgot about Jin. That would explain why she told Sayid that she didn't see anyone else on the island (or she figured Jin just disappeared again and was a hallucination/part of the island, but not a person).

Though this theory doesn't really work if she actually saw the people who took Alex...   

i understand that a ton of bad things happened to her... but i mean, if you were with someone and they just disappeared in front of your eyes... then that would probably be something you'd remember.

[this is some crazy stuff]

I kind of want to go back and watch the times she comes to the camp.  How many of those times is Jin actually there as well.  I know of one time when she comes and takes Aaron that Jin is not there because he is on the raft. 

At the end of season 3 when she comes to the camp to take them all to the radio tower Jin is there because he is one of the ones that stays behind to shoot the Others.  But did she actually come into contact with him.   I really dont know.

Anyone have a better memory than me on this subject.