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Maxor127
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« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2009, 09:27:15 AM » |
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I still don't trust Christian. He seems very creepy. Kind of reminds me of that horrible Stephen King mini-series called Desperation or something like that (never read the book) which was about some godlike entity that goes around possessing people and had the ability to control living things. I don't really remember the plot, but I thought it had something to do with it needing sacrifice or something. I just remember the movie was horrible.
Anyways, I'm picturing Jacob as some weakened entity and Christian is really a rival evil entity who is trying to take over the island and falsely acting as Jacob's representative. I can't think of any scene where Christian gave off a good vibe.
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Mrs Hume
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« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2009, 12:05:55 PM » |
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I still don't trust Christian. He seems very creepy. Kind of reminds me of that horrible Stephen King mini-series called Desperation or something like that (never read the book) which was about some godlike entity that goes around possessing people and had the ability to control living things. I don't really remember the plot, but I thought it had something to do with it needing sacrifice or something. I just remember the movie was horrible.
Anyways, I'm picturing Jacob as some weakened entity and Christian is really a rival evil entity who is trying to take over the island and falsely acting as Jacob's representative. I can't think of any scene where Christian gave off a good vibe.
that is what i think too sometimes. Christian bad jacob good. Richard is for Jacob as Christian is for the smoke monster. that is why jacob said help me to locke? |
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 "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." |
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surfmadpig
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« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2009, 12:49:06 PM » |
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I believe that Ben usurped Locke's place, and thus Locke ends up doing what Ben was supposed to.
If Ben knew that Locke was supposed to move the island (which I bet he did) and then Ben himself was supposed to be the one sacrificed for the island, I'd bet ya he'd steal Locke's place.
Christian confirmed the first (that Locke was supposed to move the island), and also my suspicions, as I'd thought that it was supposed to be Locke since last season.
Doesn't the second come natural after you accept the first?
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Christian = dead.
---
"The character of John Locke is the very heart of the show" - Carlton Cuse
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jamesl
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« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2009, 02:53:31 PM » |
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I believe that Ben usurped Locke's place, and thus Locke ends up doing what Ben was supposed to.
If Ben knew that Locke was supposed to move the island (which I bet he did) and then Ben himself was supposed to be the one sacrificed for the island, I'd bet ya he'd steal Locke's place.
Christian confirmed the first (that Locke was supposed to move the island), and also my suspicions, as I'd thought that it was supposed to be Locke since last season.
Doesn't the second come natural after you accept the first?
I don't think the 2nd follows the first if Locke had done what he was supposed to do then he and the 6 would still be off the island, and Ben would be on the island; it would still be up to Locke to sacrifice himself to get the 6 to come back; Ben would be the insignificant and overlooked lie he was meant to be that's my take anyway |
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RM
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« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2009, 07:09:02 PM » |
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It was Richard who made the deal to allow the O6 to leave in exchange for helping them retrieve Ben (and Locke). Ben honored the deal and let them go.
Ben took Locke's place moving the island, but he certainly didn't die (and doesn't seem to be intending to sacrifice himself on behalf of the island).
How many agendas are there? The Island/Jacob/Christian would seem to be all one. Ben seems to have his own freelance agenda that sometimes protects the O6, sometimes protects the Island, but always protects himself. Locke seems to be someone who wants to believe everything he's told -- "At the time I thought it meant something, but it was just a light." -- but he seems like a pawn, not a leader. It's one thing to be Ben's pawn, but this episode made it seem like he's the Island's pawn as well.
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Mrs Alpert
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« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2009, 11:40:16 PM » |
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It was Richard who made the deal to allow the O6 to leave in exchange for helping them retrieve Ben (and Locke). Ben honored the deal and let them go.
Richard made a deal with Sayid and Kate: if they helped the Others save Ben from Keamy's gang, Sayid and Kate could leave the island. I don't remember any deals with Hurley or Sun... and Ben made the "I will let you try to leave the island but if the island wants you it'll keep you" deal with Jack in season 3. |
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Mrs. Alpert,
You are hardcore Lost.
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Mrs Hume
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« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2009, 12:02:30 AM » |
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How many agendas are there? The Island/Jacob/Christian would seem to be all one. Ben seems to have his own freelance agenda that sometimes protects the O6, sometimes protects the Island, but always protects himself. Locke seems to be someone who wants to believe everything he's told -- "At the time I thought it meant something, but it was just a light." -- but he seems like a pawn, not a leader. It's one thing to be Ben's pawn, but this episode made it seem like he's the Island's pawn as well.
I have always thought that there was Jacob and Richard and Ben same agenda, and Christian , Smokey ,widmore on the other side. (For some reason, I feel that widmore has something to do with making Smokey.)and I think only because of Richard that Widmore is the bad side and Ben is the good side. and oh boy do I think Locke is being played . Locke always wanted to be this kind of person, and he never was. he was needy when it came to his father, and relationships and weak at work with his boss and he ''played" war "games" which was the exact opposite of the kind of person he was in real life. He wanted to go on a walkabout, well now he got one! So they saw this in him and said, he will be so eager to play this roll that he will believe anything. He's our man! anyway, this is my line of thinking . who knows.   |
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"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." |
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Mrs Alpert
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« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2009, 12:06:56 AM » |
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How many agendas are there? The Island/Jacob/Christian would seem to be all one. Ben seems to have his own freelance agenda that sometimes protects the O6, sometimes protects the Island, but always protects himself. Locke seems to be someone who wants to believe everything he's told -- "At the time I thought it meant something, but it was just a light." -- but he seems like a pawn, not a leader. It's one thing to be Ben's pawn, but this episode made it seem like he's the Island's pawn as well.
I have always thought that there was Jacob and Richard and Ben same agenda, and Christian , Smokey ,widmore on the other side. (For some reason, I feel that widmore has something to do with making Smokey.)and I think only because of Richard that Widmore is the bad side and Ben is the good side. and oh boy do I think Locke is being played . Locke always wanted to be this kind of person, and he never was. he was needy when it came to his father, and relationships and weak at work with his boss and he ''played" war "games" which was the exact opposite of the kind of person he was in real life. He wanted to go on a walkabout, well now he got one! So they saw this in him and said, he will be so eager to play this roll that he will believe anything. He's our man! anyway, this is my line of thinking . who knows. You guys have some good insight on this! |
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Mrs. Alpert,
You are hardcore Lost.
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opgelost
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« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2009, 06:05:18 AM » |
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that is what i think too sometimes. Christian bad jacob good. Richard is for Jacob as Christian is for the smoke monster. that is why jacob said help me to locke? I always thought Jacob was bad and I still think he is. The man in charge is a genious, but not a forgiving person. You don't know what he will do if I tell you. He will kill me if I tell you. You don't just go to see Jacob, he summons you. He makes lists of people that has to be saved and people who has to be killed. etc I thought Christian not helping John to get up with the bone coming out of his leg, was a Jacobaction. That is how I see Jacob. Just follow his orders, no matter what, no empathy. |
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opgelost
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« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2009, 06:10:06 AM » |
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Ben said: If you know what I had to do to keep you save and to keep your friends
save, you would never stop thanking me.
What did he do? Except hiring Sayid to kill a lot of people?
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Shakey
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« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2009, 09:31:33 AM » |
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I don't think Ben was playing Locke at all when he made the decision to turn the wheel himself. He was visually distraught when turning the wheel... like he believed this was the end of his time on the island.
Yes, it was Ben's fault that things went awry because he was the one who turned the wheel but I really don't believe he knew it would happen.
He probably didn't know about the O6 having to return to the island until he saw John and John told him they had to return.
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Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself.
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RM
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« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2009, 04:23:15 PM » |
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It's funny that Locke listened to Ben instead of the "island's messenger" (I like that phrase, james!), and Locke kinda got screwed for it, and Hurley listened to Sayid instead of the island's messenger of Ana Lucia and kinda got screwed for it too. Is there anyone who actually listens to these manifestations? Ok actually Hurley did for a while (Charlie, aw!).
Yeah, but one "island messenger" (Christian) is telling Locke that everyone has to come back (presumably including Aaron), but then another "island messenger" (Claire) is telling Kate not to bring Aaron back. |
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Mrs Alpert
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« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2009, 04:27:48 PM » |
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It's funny that Locke listened to Ben instead of the "island's messenger" (I like that phrase, james!), and Locke kinda got screwed for it, and Hurley listened to Sayid instead of the island's messenger of Ana Lucia and kinda got screwed for it too. Is there anyone who actually listens to these manifestations? Ok actually Hurley did for a while (Charlie, aw!).
Yeah, but one "island messenger" (Christian) is telling Locke that everyone has to come back (presumably including Aaron), but then another "island messenger" (Claire) is telling Kate not to bring Aaron back. Duality: Totally love it and totally hate it. At the same time. If part of messenger-Christian is still Christian (hence giving his own name & collecting Claire), part of messenger-Claire should still be Claire, and that's the part that doesn't want Aaron to come back to the Place That is Death. Perhaps Claire & Christian had a falling-out over Aaron coming back to the island? |
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Mrs. Alpert,
You are hardcore Lost.
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jamesl
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« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2009, 05:16:14 PM » |
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Ben said: If you know what I had to do to keep you save and to keep your friends
save, you would never stop thanking me.
What did he do? Except hiring Sayid to kill a lot of people?
maybe that has yet to be revealed it has been 3 years since they left the island |
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tonysee200x
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« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2009, 05:24:53 PM » |
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Ben said: If you know what I had to do to keep you save and to keep your friends
save, you would never stop thanking me.
What did he do? Except hiring Sayid to kill a lot of people?
maybe that has yet to be revealed it has been 3 years since they left the island Well he convinced Jake they all needed to go back. He had the lawyer getting Hurley out of Jail, and trying to get Kate "motivated." He somehow got Jin's wedding ring and held it as a card to get Sun to go back. He grabbed Locke's body and stored it. He worked with Hawkins to to have all the info to send them back. We can debate if these were good ideas and really meant to keep them safe, but I think this is the kind of stuff he was talking about. |
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