Smokey's Temple

[Wishbone]

Like Ben is pulling a Jim Jones type of killing? I thought about that....but I think Richard keeps smokey as a pet also

I love the idea of smokey being Richards pet - a cat would have been too easy eh? 

I was confused at first, When Danielle took our losties to the blackrock in S1 she called it the dark territory and said "this is where Montond lost his arm".  Yet when we see the actual location of that incident in S5, there is no mention of the blackrock and in S1 no mention of a temple. Do the writers not watch old episodes every day like we do?

I think that Jin has changed the past by meeting the young Danielle but it will not change the eventual future because Elouise told Desmond this wasn't possible and it was proven when he couldn't prevent Charlie from dying. Even though the french team ended up at the temple instead of the blackrock, Montond still lost his arm and the team (except Danielle) still got the sickness. Jin has changed some things but the things which happened without him have still happenned with him. I just wonder about the implications of meeting Danielle in the past and then again in the future. She may still end up dead like she did but the bit in between has to have changed. She has been in contact with an 'other' (from her point of view) and she told Sayid she had never seen one - that has now changed.

I don't think Jacobs cabin is actually moving so I don't think the temple can. I know we have seen the cabin in different places but I think there is another explanation for this - I have no idea what the xplanation is but if it was a real cabin built by a Dharma employee for him and the missus I find it hard to believe it became a magical moving cabin.

It's all smoke(y) and mirrors 

[matahari]

But how could they get her up a tree so fast?

Oh you're right! She gets Eko slammed into the ground.

[PrincessLeia]

The podcast said that what we saw in this episode wasn't THE temple that Ben sent his people to last season.  We saw an outer wall of the temple, & the actual temple is past or inside of this perimeter.  They're calling the hole the "declevity in the temple wall," & promising that we will return to that location this year.  When asked if this location is Smokey's home or domain, they called it his "Camp David" lol saying that this is where he hangs out when he's not where he usually stays.

[matahari]

The architecture reminds me of Southeast-Asian temples. Angkor Wat, etc. But with Egyptian hieroglyphics? Strange.

I wonder why Smokey uses a crack in the foundation instead of the front door? hmmm.

Because Smokey lives in the "underworld"

[jphimself]

Like Ben is pulling a Jim Jones type of killing? I thought about that....but I think Richard keeps smokey as a pet also

I love the idea of smokey being Richards pet - a cat would have been too easy eh? 

I was confused at first, When Danielle took our losties to the blackrock in S1 she called it the dark territory and said "this is where Montond lost his arm".  Yet when we see the actual location of that incident in S5, there is no mention of the blackrock and in S1 no mention of a temple. Do the writers not watch old episodes every day like we do?

I think that Jin has changed the past by meeting the young Danielle but it will not change the eventual future because Elouise told Desmond this wasn't possible and it was proven when he couldn't prevent Charlie from dying. Even though the french team ended up at the temple instead of the blackrock, Montond still lost his arm and the team (except Danielle) still got the sickness. Jin has changed some things but the things which happened without him have still happenned with him. I just wonder about the implications of meeting Danielle in the past and then again in the future. She may still end up dead like she did but the bit in between has to have changed. She has been in contact with an 'other' (from her point of view) and she told Sayid she had never seen one - that has now changed.

I don't think Jacobs cabin is actually moving so I don't think the temple can. I know we have seen the cabin in different places but I think there is another explanation for this - I have no idea what the xplanation is but if it was a real cabin built by a Dharma employee for him and the missus I find it hard to believe it became a magical moving cabin.

It's all smoke(y) and mirrors 

I think that the assumption that the Temple and the Black Rock/"Dark Territories" are not near one another has not been shown.  We simply have no clues as to where these sites are.

We do, however have one clue that the two are near each other from the long ago Blast Door Map.  Here is the link:

http://www.losthatch.com/images%5Cscreen_captures%5CS2E17_Blast_Door_Enhanced.jpg

Just outside the octagon on the lower right it says, "Primary nexus of cerebus activity" (Cerebus being the presumed name of Smokey, who might be expected to be most active near its home base.) and, "Known final resting place of Magnus Hanso/Black Rock" (the presumed center of the Dark Territory).

Put that together with the info that we have not yet seen the full Temple and it's just way too early to set the geography in stone and to try to craft explanations for perceived changes.

[Mrs Alpert]

Also, wasn't there a map with the Temple (that Ben sent the others to), and it was marked on the map with a Dharma symbol? Smokey's temple was way too old to be built by Dharma, but if it's part of another structure, and Dharma just took it over (or tried to), that could explain why both Dharma's station & Smokey's structure are called temples. Otherwise, they're different structures called the same name by different people and...that's just too confusing. 

[PrincessLeia]

Also, wasn't there a map with the Temple (that Ben sent the others to), and it was marked on the map with a Dharma symbol? Smokey's temple was way too old to be built by Dharma, but if it's part of another structure, and Dharma just took it over (or tried to), that could explain why both Dharma's station & Smokey's structure are called temples. Otherwise, they're different structures called the same name by different people and...that's just too confusing. 

Just as they built the Orchid close to a natural point of energy, they may have purposefully built the Temple station in that location to study Smokey or something else unique to the temple.

[Madam P]

I don't think Jacobs cabin is actually moving so I don't think the temple can. I know we have seen the cabin in different places but I think there is another explanation for this - I have no idea what the xplanation is but if it was a real cabin built by a Dharma employee for him and the missus I find it hard to believe it became a magical moving cabin.

It's all smoke(y) and mirrors 

Remember the circle of "stuff" (ash? or whatever it was?) around Jacob's cabin...  it would be interesting to know if there is something similar around the temple.

[SQUIRT199]

Smokey can also act very silently? There were no sounds when he took Nadine.
He started making noise after she fell dead from the tree.

Smokey has stealth mode...

I think the others took Nadine, not smokey. The others take Cindy in the same way in season two.

I think we can infer that the others did not take Cindy, she went with them because she is an "other"

[PrincessLeia]

Smokey can also act very silently? There were no sounds when he took Nadine.
He started making noise after she fell dead from the tree.

Smokey has stealth mode...

I think the others took Nadine, not smokey. The others take Cindy in the same way in season two.

I think we can infer that the others did not take Cindy, she went with them because she is an "other"

Was she one all along (a plant) or was she "converted?" 

[SQUIRT199]

Smokey can also act very silently? There were no sounds when he took Nadine.
He started making noise after she fell dead from the tree.

Smokey has stealth mode...

I think the others took Nadine, not smokey. The others take Cindy in the same way in season two.

I think we can infer that the others did not take Cindy, she went with them because she is an "other"

Was she one all along (a plant) or was she "converted?" 

I think she was all along,  when she met jack in the cage, she said we are watching or wating er somehting like that, and with Locke she told him they were waiting for him,  It seems they are leading us to believe that she was and always will be an "other".

I could be wrong, bu that my interpretation.

[Jeronimo Jackson]

Just to clear-up some random confusion...

Relating to Smokey, the glyphs aren't always!  The glyphs near the Frozen Donkey Wheel, per the Official LOST Audio Podcast mean "Resurrection," a huge theme in Season 5 per the producers.

The glyphs are part of the overall mythology of the island, not smokey-specific or jacob-specific.

Some further comments relating to this specific instance from the producers were that:

1.)  YES, this is the same "Temple" that the Others were marching to at the end of Season 3.

2.)  The Temple is "The last safe place on the island," per Ben & the producers.

3.)  After encountering Smokey, Robert (Rousseau's hubby) was "changed," and, per the producers, "NOT FOR THE BETTER..."  (like Montand trying to get everyone else to come inside after his arm was ripped off?!?!  clearly something's off w/ their attitudes after seeing Smokey)

4.)  Per Damon Lindelof, the Temple is "...where Smokey hangs out when he's not [at Ben's barracks.]" 

5.)  General question:  Why would Smokey "c h a n g e" others, like Montand & Robert (who was doing a famous job fooling Rousseau into thinking he loved her, as he tries to shoot her), only to make them for the worse?

I didn't see this be the case in earlier seassons.

In our first REAL encounter, the creature trails off in the distance as seen by Kate, then it bursts out of the ground and, then, the dynamite.  Even after that, Locke had an encounter and was almost religiously enlightened.  ("I looked into the eye of this island and what I saw was beautiful.")

Furthermore, Juliette & Kate were stuck in the tree in ep. Left Behind (S3);  it just "took pictures" of Juliette & Kate, as-if it were judging them.  It didn't just immediately "change" them like it did for the French.

So... bottom-line, are Smokey's actions controlled completely, or is there some room for free will with the thing?

Oh, lastly, old news I know... but they definitely won't be answering Smokey's origin until the end of the entire series.