Author Topic: What on earth is going on?  (Read 2128 times)

Offline newerakb

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What on earth is going on?
« on: February 08, 2009, 11:00:52 PM »
I haven't figured out yet if this season is awful or genius. Some questions:

- So the people on the island are jumping through time randomly because some of the people left...and all will be fine once they return? I thought the whole point of Ben turning the wheel was to move the island in time? That's exactly what its doing, so how does the group leaving have anything to do with it?

- How is Jin traveling through time? When the island moved, those on the island noted that the boat was gone...this means that it was outside the radius. So how was Jin inside? All I can think is drifting, but that's a lame copout imo.

- Why didn't Rousseau recognize Jin on the island if she saw him when she first arrived?

I'm sure you devouts have answers to all of them. But honestly, this season seems a mess so far. It's bad enough dealing with so many characters every season and so many plot threads, but this season just made it so much worse with MORE characters, MORE plot threads, and now we have 17 thousand time periods. Terrific.

Offline E.S.B.

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Re: What on earth is going on?
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2009, 11:31:09 PM »
Here's my crack at responses...

1.  I think Ben turning the wheel was supposed to simply move the Island through space (maybe time).  It was not supposed to dislodge it in time, whereby some of the people are skipping around like we've seen.  This clearly is not what was meant to happen, as we can see that it is causing some serious physical problems to a few of the people.  The O6 were, for some unknown reason, not supposed to leave.  This somehow messed up everything on the Island, and supposedly that is what is causing the skipping in time - if we are to believe Ben, Richard, and Locke.  My theory is that the Island (and for that matter, Fate and the Universe), need Jack, Kate, Sayid, Hurley, Sun and Aaron (and possibly Desmond and Walt), to return.  They have a purpose and destiny that they need to fulfill.  What that is, we don't know.

2.  No idea why Jin is time traveling.  It doesn't seem to make sense - he must've been outside the radius.  There's a thread on this in the Episode 4 board - I can't remember the name of the thread.  My theory is that the Island needs Jin to be there - it is not through with him.

3.  Maybe Rousseau forgot him, or maybe they didn't really see each other or interact in 2004.  Remember, Rousseau is "certifiable" (Charlie's words).

Sorry to hear you are so frustrated with this season.  It's disappointing to hear.  If you head starts to hurt, here's what I think - all that really matters, all that we really need to know, is that the Oceanic 6 need to come back.  They have a destiny that they need to fulfill.  To me, the only thing to worry about with the time skipping is that it is meant for us to question whether or not the past can be changed.  This comes down to one of the fundamental themes of LOST - the struggle between fate and free will.

Offline newerakb

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Re: What on earth is going on?
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2009, 02:23:01 PM »
Thanks for the responses. I guess the main problem I have with this season is that it's overly complicated. I understand that the 6 need to come back. But spending so much time watching the island jump around seems to have no purpose other than to give the illusion that they're giving us answers, in the form of 'gotcha' moments such as seeing young Widmore, or Rousseau meeting Jin. It doesn't move the story along, and just inflates the episode count to fill their quota.

Really all that's needed right now is to follow Desmond and the Oceanic 6. It's enough that we know the island is jumping in time, without seeing every little pointless jump. Giving us little coincidences every jump is a cheap gimmick to hide the fact that nothing is happening. I know the actors have contracts so you can't very well have 4 episodes without Kate, Locke, Sawyer, and Ben, but this seems like a bad way to force screentime on them.

I'll keep watching every episode as I always have, and am usually of the opinion that the writers know what they're doing and where it all is going. But dangit, it better all be worth it! :)

Offline Writers_Strike

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Re: What on earth is going on?
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2009, 02:30:01 PM »
2. There were no living people on the freighter so it stayed in it's time line. Jin was alive so he and the piece of debris he was on time traveled. As far as Jin vs the helicopter going with the island? I have no idea.

Offline BurkRoyer

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Re: What on earth is going on?
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2009, 03:05:47 PM »
2. There were no living people on the freighter so it stayed in it's time line. Jin was alive so he and the piece of debris he was on time traveled. As far as Jin vs the helicopter going with the island? I have no idea.

Here is my belief on this.  The Freighter was inside the radius and helicopter was NOT.  The helicopter was above the radius "sphere".   The freighter (which was mostly debris then) did NOT time jump, even though it WAS inside the radius.  Except for maybe the piece of debris that Jin was floating on...

picture:

  h__------__
  /               \
/f       iii         \

h = helicopter
f = freighter
iii = island
/ = invisible mystical radius

Offline TheBrightandTheDark

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Re: What on earth is going on?
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2009, 05:01:57 PM »
I don't think the freighter was inside the radius, because Sawyer and Juliet didn't see the smoke from it when the island jumped. It just blew up--there should be smoke, right?

My theory about Jin is that the island (or whatever) pulled the same stunt it did when the hatch exploded: It safely moved Eko, Locke, and Desmond out of the exploding station and deposited them where they wouldn't die. I think the same thing happened with Jin, the island (or, again, whatever), safely moved him out of the exploding freighter and deposited him within the island's radius. Just my opinion, but it makes sense to me. It happened before, so, why not now?  :-\ ???

Offline PK

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Re: What on earth is going on?
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2009, 07:36:59 AM »
I think that the freighter was in the radius but no one was on it when it exploded so it stayed in it's time and didn't jump which is why Sawyer and Juliet didn't see it.  Remember the camp was on the island but it disappeared.
I would agree that Jin and the debris he was with jumped together. Maybe Jin was just on the edge of the radius.

Even if Rousseau knew Jin, what good would it be to tell everyone.  There is a language barrier and Jin wouldn't know her because it hadn't happened yet since it would be part of his future.  Remember, even though this is Rousseau's past, it is still Jin's future.
Besides, the others have files on everyone from the plane it would be easy to know something about Jin.
We don't know how long it will be until the next jump so Jin may only be with her for a short time.

As for this never happening if the losties never left, I wonder if this is ploy to keep Ben in power.  Could be with all the people working for him, he and his team have control of the island (space and time).  They had easy access to the island, a comfortable life and all the money they need. They say you can't alter your destiny, but you can probably alter events in time to benefit you.  Maybe Ben has done that, he sure does have a lot of passports. This could be a power struggle with Witmore who may have been in Ben's shoes before.  Maybe that's how he made his millions.  But the losties leaving was probably some kind of course correction to get the timeline back on track. Maybe Ben's been playing with time too much, so this happened to kind of punish him and he must correct his mistake.

On a side note, I think Richard may be some sort of caretaker which is why he seems like he has no power.  Maybe the island and Richard are actually from the future or space.  Isn't time much slower in space?






« Last Edit: February 10, 2009, 08:00:25 AM by PK »

Offline Madam P

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Re: What on earth is going on?
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2009, 11:31:20 AM »
...spending so much time watching the island jump around seems to have no purpose other than to give the illusion that they're giving us answers, in the form of 'gotcha' moments such as seeing young Widmore, or Rousseau meeting Jin. It doesn't move the story along, and just inflates the episode count to fill their quota.

Really all that's needed right now is to follow Desmond and the Oceanic 6. It's enough that we know the island is jumping in time, without seeing every little pointless jump. Giving us little coincidences every jump is a cheap gimmick to hide the fact that nothing is happening.

Well, technically, we could have been saying that all along about this series in terms of the flashbacks.  But the flashbacks showed us some key character tie-ins that became important to the story later on (and also important to enriching the depth of the characters, which makes the show enjoyable to watch because we get "into" the characters.)

I trust the writers -- they have not disappointed so far.  I think they know what they're doing.  They've clearly fleshed out the entire ending of the story by now, so the information that they are doling out now, while it may not seem important, will probably have some vital tie-in connection later.

Yes, they could just have one show with all the "important stuff" and wrap the whole thing up in one episode if we're in that big of a hurry.  (The-O6-return-Locke-drops-baby-Aaron-in-the-Jughead-pit-as-a-sacrifice-and-saves-the-world-everyone-looks-at-Richard's-bare-feet-look!-he-has-four-toes-Smokey-morphs-back-into-Vincent-Penny's-boat-comes-and-rescues-everyone-and-she-tells-them-Ben-and-Widmore-beat-each-other-to-death-and-Rose-and-Bernard-stay-behind-and-become-Adam-and-Eve-THE END!  They all lived happily ever after!  But what fun would that be?

(Actually, I'd like to see the Ben-and-Widmore-beat-each-other-to-death part...) 

Offline Writers_Strike

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Re: What on earth is going on?
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2009, 12:15:40 PM »
The-O6-return-Locke-drops-baby-Aaron-in-the-Jughead-pit-as-a-sacrifice-and-saves-the-world-everyone-looks-at-Richard's-bare-feet-look!-he-has-four-toes-Smokey-morphs-back-into-Vincent-Penny's-boat-comes-and-rescues-everyone-and-she-tells-them-Ben-and-Widmore-beat-each-other-to-death-and-Rose-and-Bernard-stay-behind-and-become-Adam-and-Eve-THE END!

Best episode ever!

Offline BurkRoyer

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Re: What on earth is going on?
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2009, 02:23:52 PM »
I don't think the freighter was inside the radius, because Sawyer and Juliet didn't see the smoke from it when the island jumped. It just blew up--there should be smoke, right?

Obviously, I'm not a very clear communicator. Let me try this one more time;

The reason Sawyer and Juliet stopped seeing the smoke after the flash (the first time-jump) was because the smoking freighter DID NOT Time-Jump, even though it WAS in the radius.  Jin was in the water by then, and in the radius of course, and he DID Time-Jump. 

Another way of looking at it, there were 2 things that happened, to the "stuff" that was within the radius, when Ben moved the donkey wheel.

1) The island and all the structures, including the freighter, within the radius moved in space (location on the earth, not outer-space).
2) The Losties and friend, and certain items they were in possession of, moved in time and space. And they keep jumping around in time and space.

The freighter is at the bottom of the ocean now so we will probably never know. Nevertheless, we do know somehow Jin was close enough to the island to be effected, while the people in helicopter were not.  So unless they go back this week and show us how he got off the freighter (and I hope they do!), we'll have to believe want makes most sense to ourselves.

Offline A Better Tomorrow

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Re: What on earth is going on?
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2009, 04:54:41 PM »
Hi All...

Ben told Jack the island would not let him return alone.  Interperation: The island will not let Ben return alone.  Why do you think Ben is helping the O6, cause he's a nice guy?  The O6 needs Ben, yes, but he needs them too.  Predictions: Locke is not dead - but he will have a spider bite.  The numbers are the frequency (remember Daniel's lab) that will open a portal back to the island.  The O6 may each somehow represent one of the numbers; Kate = 4, Jack = 8, Hurley = 15 and so on.

The time travelers cannot remember the past on their own.  It takes an external stimulas like electromagnatism or a good wack to the head from a cricket bat.  Desmond didn't remember Daniel either - but that was before he turned the key.  Rousseau did not recognize Jin for the same reason.

Another interesting thing, there's a lot of bleeding noses around but not Desmond, Ben or Daniel.  Daniel is Desmond's constant and Desmond's anchor is Penny.  I expect it won't be too long before we find out about Ben's constant.  Locke's constant is clearly Richard.   
 
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 02:12:15 PM by A Better Tomorrow »

Offline Madam P

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Re: What on earth is going on?
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2009, 09:54:14 PM »
The-O6-return-Locke-drops-baby-Aaron-in-the-Jughead-pit-as-a-sacrifice-and-saves-the-world-everyone-looks-at-Richard's-bare-feet-look!-he-has-four-toes-Smokey-morphs-back-into-Vincent-Penny's-boat-comes-and-rescues-everyone-and-she-tells-them-Ben-and-Widmore-beat-each-other-to-death-and-Rose-and-Bernard-stay-behind-and-become-Adam-and-Eve-THE END!

Best episode ever!

Thank you, thank you.  I'm expecting a call from the head writers any moment now, begging me to write for them.   ::)

Time-Jumper, I understood what you said perfectly.  You had pictures and everything! 

A Better Tomorrow, that is a great point about there being six Numbers and the Oceanic Six.  I never thought of that.  It could be -- like a combination lock or something -- each of them has to be present to input/represent a number on some sort of portal or heading or something.  Good thought!

Offline A Better Tomorrow

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Re: What on earth is going on?
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2009, 12:26:56 PM »
Well Madam P, if you liked that theory you'll love this one. 

Ready...

The numbers are sentries - Holy Cow!!!

A sentry is a soldier posted at a set spot to prevent entry by the unauthorized.

Let me be the first to say there are 6 sentries spread across the island.

You know it.  You've seen it.  Here it is....

The four toed statue is the sentry representing "4"

I'm quite sure the other 5 sentries will be shown to represent 8, 15, 16, 23 and 42.

These sentries are obviously non-human, maybe they are electromagnetic (like the sonic fence), but in any case, they are a force to be reckoned with.  It's also possible they are not all fixed in one spot.  Maybe 4 (the simple one) takes a physical form as a statue and 42 (the complex one) is the smoke monster. 

Also posted in Theories and Speculation.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 02:13:47 PM by A Better Tomorrow »

Offline TheBrightandTheDark

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Re: What on earth is going on?
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2009, 01:18:34 PM »
Well Madam P, if you liked that theory you'll love this one. 

Ready...

The numbers are sentries - Holy Cow!!!

A sentry is a soldier posted at a set spot to prevent entry by the unauthorized.

Let me be the first to say there are 6 sentries spread across the island.

You know it.  You've seen it.  Here it is....

The four toed statue is the sentry representing "4"

I'm quite sure the other 5 sentries will be shown to represent 8, 15, 16, 23 and 42.

These sentries are obviously non-human, maybe they are electromagnetic (like the sonic fence), but in any case, they are a force to be reckoned with.  It's also possible they are not all fixed in one spot.  Maybe 4 (the simple one) takes a physical form as a statue and 42 (the complex one) is the smoke monster. 

Whoa. My brain just died. But I like it!