Author Topic: Richard Alpert's meeting with the young John Locke...  (Read 11416 times)

Offline AstroJones

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Re: Richard Alpert's meeting with the young John Locke...
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2009, 01:48:15 AM »
Well, if you read Sledge and I's chat log on the front page of the site, we sort of proved already that Cayley was smarter than me....so...  ;)

And its okay, I'm married, so I'm used to being wrong a lot.

Offline Maxor127

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Re: Richard Alpert's meeting with the young John Locke...
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2009, 03:23:25 AM »
Hmm... so am I the only one who thinks that Locke visiting Richard last episode did NOT cause Richard to seek out baby Locke in the future?

Offline Mrs Hume

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Re: Richard Alpert's meeting with the young John Locke...
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2009, 04:34:30 AM »
Maybe there was some kind of "if something bad happens to me, make sure the rest of you give John the knife." thing in the future.
So John picking the knife in the beginning told Richard something about the future.

... a bit of a stretch, but stranger things have happened.

That's a very good theory...  :)

Offline Mrs Hume

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Re: Richard Alpert's meeting with the young John Locke...
« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2009, 04:37:48 AM »
Hmm... so am I the only one who thinks that Locke visiting Richard last episode did NOT cause Richard to seek out baby Locke in the future?

I have to admit, I am very confussed about that one. If it is true, wouldn't that be a loop?
and if it is true, then I give up with all this time travel cr^p!


(end of tentrum) :-\

Offline Gmonkey

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Re: Richard Alpert's meeting with the young John Locke...
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2009, 09:56:22 AM »
As per Astrojones, i think that Richard "failed" the test. I think he does not quite understand and was expecting some significance with the compass since john gave it to him 2 year before he was born, and it was simply a way of telling if he was telling the truth about being from the future/their leader/sent by jacob.

its very interesting because (in 1954) richard does not seem to know a whole lot, which has made me think this (if you have read my other posts, well i better warn you im about to make no sense at all, again):

Richard only thinks locke is special because of this meeting in 1954, where locke tells richard he is the leader and sent by jacob.
Because of this meeting, Richard has watched john grow up, curiously
John comes to the island in 2004 when 815 crashes
Richard now believes that Locke is special - since the 2004 version of locke appeared in 1954.
But (1954) Richard only thinks he is special, because (2004) Locke told him so. (2004) Locke thinks he is special, because (2004) richard told him so...

I guess what im trying to say is, is Locke really special??

Offline HugeJohnLockeFan

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Re: Richard Alpert's meeting with the young John Locke...
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2009, 10:05:29 AM »
As per Astrojones, i think that Richard "failed" the test. I think he does not quite understand and was expecting some significance with the compass since john gave it to him 2 year before he was born, and it was simply a way of telling if he was telling the truth about being from the future/their leader/sent by jacob.

its very interesting because (in 1954) richard does not seem to know a whole lot, which has made me think this (if you have read my other posts, well i better warn you im about to make no sense at all, again):

Richard only thinks locke is special because of this meeting in 1954, where locke tells richard he is the leader and sent by jacob.
Because of this meeting, Richard has watched john grow up, curiously
John comes to the island in 2004 when 815 crashes
Richard now believes that Locke is special - since the 2004 version of locke appeared in 1954.
But (1954) Richard only thinks he is special, because (2004) Locke told him so. (2004) Locke thinks he is special, because (2004) richard told him so...

I guess what im trying to say is, is Locke really special??

Didn't Ben also say something about Locke being special?

Offline Staggerlee

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Re: Richard Alpert's meeting with the young John Locke...
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2009, 10:27:06 AM »
Richard only thinks locke is special because of this meeting in 1954, where locke tells richard he is the leader and sent by jacob.
Because of this meeting, Richard has watched john grow up, curiously
John comes to the island in 2004 when 815 crashes
Richard now believes that Locke is special - since the 2004 version of locke appeared in 1954.
But (1954) Richard only thinks he is special, because (2004) Locke told him so. (2004) Locke thinks he is special, because (2004) richard told him so...

I guess what im trying to say is, is Locke really special??

That's the circular in the linear thinking here...mucho confusing...the cul de sac in Faraday's metaphorical road....better yet the loop in his Hot Wheels track...maybe his linear road now has a loop in it, which it did not before?   Before what, though?
There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion.

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Offline zeekloveslost

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Re: Richard Alpert's meeting with the young John Locke...
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2009, 10:46:08 AM »
I like where Gmonkey was going. I can see where you're coming from.  Can't wait for more info!

Offline Writers_Strike

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Re: Richard Alpert's meeting with the young John Locke...
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2009, 11:32:32 AM »
A paralyzed man that came to the island and could walk immediately is what made him special.

Offline Staggerlee

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Re: Richard Alpert's meeting with the young John Locke...
« Reply #39 on: January 29, 2009, 12:23:44 PM »
A paralyzed man that came to the island and could walk immediately is what made him special.


That in and of itself does make him special, but it does not seem the impetus for all that has happened. Seems as though that was more a mere byproduct of him being there, and in one possibility the Isle making him whole to carry out his duties.
There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion.

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Offline Ladybug

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Re: Richard Alpert's meeting with the young John Locke...
« Reply #40 on: January 29, 2009, 12:51:35 PM »
matahari, that's also a matter of perspective.  He picked up those items, and set them back down.  I say he didn't actually "pick" any of them but the knife.  That's just my perspective though.  Cayley sees it the way you do.  She thinks he picked all three and it was just the picking of the knife that upset Richard.
i agree with you astro.  i always felt like he picked up the compass & sand, they were somehow familiar to him, but he didn't feel like they were actually HIS, whereas the knife was his personal possession.

Offline TheBrightandTheDark

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Re: Richard Alpert's meeting with the young John Locke...
« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2009, 02:07:06 PM »
I agree too. Little-Locke chose the sand, signifying the island, and the compass, which I think signifies his meeting with Richard circa 2004. In a previous season, Locke gives a compass to Sayid because he "doesn't need it anymore." And in fact, in those first few episodes of the series, Locke tromps through the jungle with a vest with all sorts of gadgets to help him survive, whereas now he brings maybe a knife. So we know Locke doesn't really need a compass. Richard watches Little-Locke pick up these items and bring them closer to himself (Locke), but Richard doesn't seem upset by the choices.

It isn't until Little-Locke picks up the knife that Richard gets upset, and it seems that he wanted the kid to pick the Book of Laws.

So what I think (finally) is that Little-Locke misunderstood what was being asked of him. He had drawn a picture of a person being attacked by smoke out of a fire. Maybe he already knew of the island somehow, understood that the island was his, understood that the compass was a sign for Richard, but wanted to be prepared for the violence and chose the knife over the book? And Richard thinks Locke failed the test. It isn't until later, when Locke is in high school, that Richard understands what Locke was trying to tell him.

Offline matahari

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Re: Richard Alpert's meeting with the young John Locke...
« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2009, 02:16:47 PM »
What year does Richard recruit Ben? 1970?

What year does Locke find out about Mittelos Camp? 1970?

Do we have better estimates of the time?

Offline Mrs Hume

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Re: Richard Alpert's meeting with the young John Locke...
« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2009, 02:48:45 PM »
As per Astrojones, i think that Richard "failed" the test. I think he does not quite understand and was expecting some significance with the compass since john gave it to him 2 year before he was born, and it was simply a way of telling if he was telling the truth about being from the future/their leader/sent by jacob.

its very interesting because (in 1954) richard does not seem to know a whole lot, which has made me think this (if you have read my other posts, well i better warn you im about to make no sense at all, again):

Richard only thinks locke is special because of this meeting in 1954, where locke tells richard he is the leader and sent by jacob.
Because of this meeting, Richard has watched john grow up, curiously
John comes to the island in 2004 when 815 crashes
Richard now believes that Locke is special - since the 2004 version of locke appeared in 1954.
But (1954) Richard only thinks he is special, because (2004) Locke told him so. (2004) Locke thinks he is special, because (2004) richard told him so...

I guess what im trying to say is, is Locke really special??

You made perfect sense to me! lol, that is exactly the way I was thinking!!!!!!! Thank you thank you thank you! Now I don't feel alone!  :D
My post in another thread...
right, like Locke told Richard that he was the new leader in the past so they look for him and make him the new leader, so that he can tell Richard that he is the new leader in the future so they can look for him and make him the new leader in the past .... and Infinity.... . and now he is the new leader. I think this is the way it's happening. but if you ask me this seems more like a loop to me than anything. which came first? !!!! aaaaaah sometimes just when I think I'm getting it I realize I don't got it! lol


(forgive the rambling, it's reeeeally late)
« Last Edit: January 29, 2009, 02:50:27 PM by Mrs Hume »

Offline RM

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Re: Richard Alpert's meeting with the young John Locke...
« Reply #44 on: January 29, 2009, 10:26:23 PM »
I couldn't figure out how Richard knew exactly when and where to go to the plane to fix Locke's wound and give him the compass, but somebody else posted that after Ethan shot Locke that he time-shifted back to exactly the point in time when he left.  Therefore, Richard 2005 saw Locke disappear and _immediately_ headed for the plane because (A) Locke had already told him back in 1954 the story of what happened and Richard had seen Locke disappear once before.

But where did Richard get the compass before he gave it to Locke?  I thought it was already Richard's, but he didn't recognize it in 1954.  If Richard had in his possession for 50 years, then the existence of the compass is a paradox.

------

Richard is old, but he has a linear memory like anybody else.  Desmond is the only one who has this mind-time-travel memory that's non-linear.

Also, I agree with the fundamental "Is Locke really special at all?" theme.  Richard 1954 meets a man from the future who knows about Jacob.  Then there really is a kid born in 1956 just like Future Man said would happen.  It's natural for Richard to believe Locke is special, but 6yo Locke doesn't have a memory of anything from 1954.  Locke doesn't believe he's special until the Others tell him he is.  The island healed Rose just like Locke, but the Others don't ask her to lead them -- that's the specialness of the island, not the person being healed.  But after he crashes, Jacob did send Ben to get Locke, so Jacob does eventually tell the Others that Locke is special.