Author Topic: First Thoughts  (Read 1583 times)

Offline MangoBingo

  • In the Loop
  • ****
  • Posts: 1510
    • View Profile
First Thoughts
« on: January 23, 2009, 06:23:24 AM »
I only saw episodes one and two late last night and I'm on my way out to work soon, so this will be brief...

Okay... I get that "whatever will be, will be" and you can't change anything in the past which has already happened. I also understand that Desmond and Daniel are exempt from this rule (and can interact with each other) because they are each other's constant... I mean, it's a pretty stupid conceit, because what about all the blades of grass they're squishing as they're trawling around the jungle? Would that grass have been squished anyway? I'm presuming that this only applies to humans or a human perception of existence.  ???

Anyway...

If Frogurt and other redshirts can be killed are the Losties now no longer in the past? If they are in the past, will Frobert reappear? Is this why Mikhail kept reappearing? Has "the record been skipping" all along?

It's interesting that Ms. Hawking and Ben appear to know each other. I'm unsure if this means that they are both evil or both good.

And one of those cops staking out Hurley was Matthew Abbadon, wasn't it? We never got a close-up but it looked like his head-shape and frame. When Widmore indicated to Sun that the airport police worked for him, was this a hint that the "cops" in L.A. were also working for him (meaning that Abaddon is working for Widmore).

And Hurley is retarded!!! Yes, Sayid told him to do the opposite of whatever Ben told him to do but Ana-Lucia also warned him to stay away from the police!!!

I can't wait to watch the episodes again and dive back in here, full time.  :)
« Last Edit: January 23, 2009, 07:28:59 AM by MangoBingo »

Offline Writers_Strike

  • Survivor
  • ***
  • Posts: 865
    • View Profile
Re: First Thoughts
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2009, 08:05:13 AM »
If Frogurt and other redshirts can be killed are the Losties now no longer in the past? If they are in the past, will Frobert reappear? Is this why Mikhail kept reappearing? Has "the record been skipping" all along?

No Frogurt will not be returning. The changing the past rule applies to the original timeline. If Dan was talking to Des and Dan pulled a gun and tried to kill Des he would fail. If he did kill him, then Des would reappear as if nothing happened in a course correction. Any of our heroes are able to die off in the past. Rose and Bernard will become "Adam ans Eve" me thinks.

Mikhail kept comming back because no one killed him until he turned himself in to chum.

Offline CastawayCayley

  • DHARMA Work Man (or Woman)
  • *****
  • Posts: 4855
    • View Profile
Re: First Thoughts
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2009, 08:28:59 AM »
also, those airport police were not in LA. She was flying to LA. My guess is that that meeting happened right after she approached him in London. She said what she was going to say and then was heading home, where he grabbed her at the airport leaving England to teach her a little something about how she should have approached him.

Offline MangoBingo

  • In the Loop
  • ****
  • Posts: 1510
    • View Profile
Re: First Thoughts
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2009, 06:10:48 PM »
If Frogurt and other redshirts can be killed are the Losties now no longer in the past? If they are in the past, will Frobert reappear?

No Frogurt will not be returning. The changing the past rule applies to the original timeline. If Dan was talking to Des and Dan pulled a gun and tried to kill Des he would fail. If he did kill him, then Des would reappear as if nothing happened in a course correction. Any of our heroes are able to die off in the past. Rose and Bernard will become "Adam ans Eve" me thinks.

 ???

I can't get this right in my head.

Are you saying, if I went to the past I couldn't kill anybody, but somebody else could kill me (because to me it's still my present)?

Is this why Mikhail kept reappearing? Has "the record been skipping" all along?

Mikhail kept comming back because no one killed him until he turned himself in to chum.

Are you 100% sure he didn't die more than once?

Offline MangoBingo

  • In the Loop
  • ****
  • Posts: 1510
    • View Profile
Re: First Thoughts
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2009, 06:12:56 PM »
also, those airport police were not in LA. She was flying to LA. My guess is that that meeting happened right after she approached him in London.

I know they were differing police forces in differing countries. I did watch the show, you know!  ;) However, if Widmore is powerful enough to control some policemen in London, why not in Los Angeles?

Offline patrixmith

  • Red Shirt
  • **
  • Posts: 133
    • View Profile
Re: First Thoughts
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2009, 04:53:44 AM »
To me it sounds like, in a way, things technically "can" be changed to a degree. According to Daniel's explanation of "not being able to change the past" to Sawyer, when Sawyer is banging on the back door of the hatch, is that Sawyer can't talk to Desmond because they have never talked to each other before. They have not met yet, therefore, they cannot meet now. If they had already met before, it wouldn't be an initial time in history that would be affected, so they could talk. It almost sounds like only initial incidents in time are affected by time travel, if that makes sense the way I'm saying it.

My only evidence is that Daniel was able to talk to Desmond at the back door of the hatch, even though he did not talk to him there during that time period when it actually happened, but because they had already met at Oxford when Desmond sought him out for help. Or, is that only because Desmond is his constant? That is something that we don't have enough evidence of yet. This season will tell...
« Last Edit: January 27, 2009, 04:48:33 PM by patrixmith »

Offline opgelost

  • In the Loop
  • ****
  • Posts: 1826
    • View Profile
Re: First Thoughts
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2009, 05:28:03 AM »
Desmond's constant is Penny, not Dan.

Offline MangoBingo

  • In the Loop
  • ****
  • Posts: 1510
    • View Profile
Re: First Thoughts
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2009, 05:58:19 AM »
I'm still confused about all this "being unable to change the past" stuff...  ???

Locke killed those soldiers. If it was in their past, does that mean that they would have died at that moment anyway? We don't even know if the last "record skip" took them to the past. They might be in the future. Ugh.

There is always the possibility that Faraday is bullsh1tting and he's told them that they can't meddle, to cause fewer ructions in the space-time continuum.  :)

Offline opgelost

  • In the Loop
  • ****
  • Posts: 1826
    • View Profile
Re: First Thoughts
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2009, 06:26:26 AM »
I'm confused too.
I thought that whatever happened, happened and you cannot change anything.
But if Neil was killed in the past, he can never be on the plane.

And why did all this happen bacause Jack left? Is Jack the
island's constant and does he need to fix it in time again?
And that strange sentence: Locke told me that everyone died if I didn't come back?
Is that good English? It sounded strange to me.
Isn't it: everyone will die if I don't go back or everyone died, because
I didn't come back.


Offline MangoBingo

  • In the Loop
  • ****
  • Posts: 1510
    • View Profile
Re: First Thoughts
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2009, 04:04:27 PM »
I just watched a video at EW.com

http://www.ew.com/ew/package/0,,1550612_20245764,00.html

Apparently, we're meant to be questioning if the "course correction" theory of the past being unchangeable is true or not.

Thank God for that. I thought I was being dense for not understanding how it could work.

So, I wonder if Desmond could have saved Charlie all along and Ms. Hawking was fibbing about all that "course correction" business?  :-\

Offline hatch4815162342

  • Red Shirt
  • **
  • Posts: 214
    • View Profile
Re: First Thoughts
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2009, 11:18:52 PM »
sorry for the randomness but i dont know where to put it. What was the number in the lie epi that kate tried to call but put the phone away? it said jack shepard so i would like to try and call it and see if abc set it up or not....

Offline Mrs Hume

  • DHARMA Work Man (or Woman)
  • *****
  • Posts: 3556
    • View Profile
Re: First Thoughts
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2009, 01:09:39 AM »
I just watched a video at EW.com

http://www.ew.com/ew/package/0,,1550612_20245764,00.html

Apparently, we're meant to be questioning if the "course correction" theory of the past being unchangeable is true or not.

Thank God for that. I thought I was being dense for not understanding how it could work.

So, I wonder if Desmond could have saved Charlie all along and Ms. Hawking was fibbing about all that "course correction" business?  :-\

Thanks for that link. It was very good info. I never go to those sites , but I should start.

Offline vickilynn

  • DHARMA Work Man (or Woman)
  • *****
  • Posts: 3880
    • View Profile
Re: First Thoughts
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2009, 02:50:04 PM »
I just watched a video at EW.com

http://www.ew.com/ew/package/0,,1550612_20245764,00.html

Apparently, we're meant to be questioning if the "course correction" theory of the past being unchangeable is true or not.

Thank God for that. I thought I was being dense for not understanding how it could work.

So, I wonder if Desmond could have saved Charlie all along and Ms. Hawking was fibbing about all that "course correction" business?  :-\

I'm still confused...but at least it's good to know I'm not the only one! Maybe if I get out my kids' crayons and a huge piece of paper and start drawing it I could figure it out, or maybe my husband will have me commited if I start doing that!

Offline patrixmith

  • Red Shirt
  • **
  • Posts: 133
    • View Profile
Re: First Thoughts
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2009, 04:45:30 PM »
Desmond's constant is Penny, not Dan.

Sorry that's what I meant. Because Desmond is Dan's constant is what I meant to say up there.