Ben Is Always The Ultimate Liar

[jphimself]

I think Lost is saying plainly, in the title of this episode, that we are not dealing with the truth.  Not regarding the O6 cover story, but about the belief, generated by Ben, that "everyone" must go back to the Island or bad things will happen to those 815 survivors (plus Juliet) left behind.

Ben has been lying since we first met him caught up in Rousseau's trap.  Does anyone believe that he cares at all about the fate of the survivors?  The one true thing we know about Benjamin is that he cares only about himself, especially now that Alex is dead (apparently).  So getting all to return must in some way benefit him.  Perhaps in their company he can get around his previous belief that if he turned the wheel he could never return, as he told John in the Season 4 finale.

According to the rules as laid out by Mrs. Hawking and Faraday, nothing that has happened can be altered.  Alex cannot be brought back to life.  If bad things have happened to the survivors (Frogurt's death for example, as unregrettable as it was), they cannot be undone by the return of the O6 plus Locke and Ben.

What Ben's true goal is we do not yet know.  But we know that Sayid,and now Hurley, are not buying it.  Miserable Jack is buying in, but for him anything would be better than his current misery.  Kate may need to escape the lawyers via a return trip to the Island.  (Could Ben be their secret client seeking to encourage her well-tried running instinct?)  Sun will do whatever allows her to take her revenge on whoever she blames for Jin's "death".  Widmore, who sent Keamy?  Ben who killed Keamy and activated the bomb?  We don't yet know.  In the end, Ben may yet be able to manipulate them all into going back despite their reluctance.

What does Ben want?  We can't be sure, but my guess is that he wants to resume his command of the Island and to beat Widmore in their game.  These seem to be the only things he cares about.

Off the Island, Ben is susceptible to being captured by Widmore.  Remember, Keamy's orders were to bring Ben back alive.  Back on the Island, he stands a better chance of staying out of Widmore's clutches and he will again be able to be king.

Of great interest to me is what the "Time Lords", Mrs. Hawking and co.'s, role in all this is.  Are they players in the Ben/Widmore battle?  Are they its possible victims or its possible masters?

Oh what fun to be back in this world, getting lost in Lost.

[Laklost]

You rock, JPHimself!  I completely agree that Ben is the villain, and Sayid's words are true: whatever Ben says, do the opposite.

[this is some crazy stuff]

its still hard for me to tell which is good and which is bad.  BEN or WIDMORE.  To me its more like Ben is bad because he wants the island to himself and he knows how to do that.  And Widmore is worse because he will kill everyone in his path to get there.

So no is is technically "The good guys" as Ben said he was but one is not as bad as the other.

[§møĐēąη]

You rock, JPHimself!  I completely agree that Ben is the villain, and Sayid's words are true: whatever Ben says, do the opposite.

One day you'll see Ben for the true hero he is.  He, like Locke, have only done things to protect the island.
I'd say Jack is more the ultimate liar than anyone else.  The O-6 lie and the lying in court are 2 examples.  It's dark Jack.  Very dark.

[hatch4815162342]

jack was always the one who would tell the losties thatr they were ok and blah blah blah.  Locke tells it like it is.(most of the time) ben would stab you in the back without even thinking twice.

[Gmonkey]

Ben is a a liar an villian (one of the best love to hate characters ive ever experienced)

Mrs Hawking, I believe is unbias. I dont beleive she is "working" with ben, but rather assisting him with something that must be done. I think she is a "watchkeeper" of the island, like Richard, and can/has seen how all things pan out in the end.

[nomteticus]

Nope, I really think Ben wants to save the island. Mrs. Hawkings said that if 70 hours pass there will be blood (well, something like that) and Ben seemed genuinely worried. That doesn't mean he's telling the whole truth, but in the end I really think Ben wil be the hero (despite killing all those boat men because he couldn't control his anger as he hacked Keamy).
Though he has done bad deeds, he is ultimately an utilitarian. he would kill 10.000.000 people if the world could be saved.

[Laklost]

A utilitarian - like Stalin? 

[Maxor127]

I think Ben's lies all have a hint of truth.  Just look at his Henry Gale story.  I think he was telling a personal story but wrapping it in the Henry Gale lie.  And I think we'll eventually find out that Ben had a wife or someone who he loved and lost.  And I think at the end of the series, we'll realize that Ben and the others really were the good guys.

[sillysab]

You rock, JPHimself!  I completely agree that Ben is the villain, and Sayid's words are true: whatever Ben says, do the opposite.

One day you'll see Ben for the true hero he is.  He, like Locke, have only done things to protect the island.
I'd say Jack is more the ultimate liar than anyone else.  The O-6 lie and the lying in court are 2 examples.  It's dark Jack.  Very dark.

Ana Lucia said - whatever you do, don't get arrested to Hurley - apparently he forgot this and thought he was doing the right thing (according to Sayid) by opposing Ben. He only follows 2 of the 3 things Ana Lucia tells him. I think Ben is the "bad" guy and Locke is the good sacrificial lamb in a way. But Ben also only ever acts in his own best interests, and this time I think they coincide with what the O6 need to do - go back to the island.

[Mrs Hume]

I love Ben. to me, He seems to ALWAYS know what to do and how to do it. (except for now ) But I'm confident he will get the job done. He might not seem like he is good but i think all the bad things he does is for a greater good.

[jphimself]

So now, as I suggested above, after "The Little Prince", we know that Ben did sic the lawyers on Kate and used their services to try to get Hurley out of jail.  So what does Ben want?  I still think that he needs all six (plus Locke) to return to the Island so he can return.  If a time jump is not possible for them off Island, then he must get them back physically.  But, does Sun intend to kill Ben?  Or is it another or others of the six she is after.  Will Ben be able to convince her the Jin is still alive?  Is this her only issue?

[Mrs Alpert]

I love Ben. to me, He seems to ALWAYS know what to do and how to do it. (except for now ) But I'm confident he will get the job done. He might not seem like he is good but i think all the bad things he does is for a greater good.

I totally agree. All he wanted from the Others, growing up, was to be accepted. Locke came into the picture and Ben was miffed, there was a scuffle for power, but Ben is the one who turned the donkey wheel. This way, he could feel like he gave the island to Locke, entrusted it to him. Ben told the O6 they had to go back to save everyone; Richard told Locke the same thing. While I don't always believe everything Ben says, I'm pretty confident in Richard, so for me, he validates Ben's statement to the O6.

Plus, if I was ever in trouble, I'd want Ben on my side. Manipulative and selfish though he may be, he's the man with answers and a plan.

[PrincessLeia]

Ben is a liar, & that's why his era as leader of the Others has ended.  He may have started out wanting to protect the Island & stay true to the Others' primary purposes, but somewhere along the way he became consumed by his own ego.  Right now, I see his objective as beating Widmore.  Plain & simple.  His only loyalty is to himself.

[Mrs Hume]

I love Ben. to me, He seems to ALWAYS know what to do and how to do it. (except for now ) But I'm confident he will get the job done. He might not seem like he is good but i think all the bad things he does is for a greater good.

I totally agree. All he wanted from the Others, growing up, was to be accepted. Locke came into the picture and Ben was miffed, there was a scuffle for power, but Ben is the one who turned the donkey wheel. This way, he could feel like he gave the island to Locke, entrusted it to him. Ben told the O6 they had to go back to save everyone; Richard told Locke the same thing. While I don't always believe everything Ben says, I'm pretty confident in Richard, so for me, he validates Ben's statement to the O6.
Plus, if I was ever in trouble, I'd want Ben on my side. Manipulative and selfish though he may be, he's the man with answers and a plan.

Exactly!!  Well said. and I agree! I think Ben is out to do the right thing for the island no matter what lengths he has to go to. That is the common characteristic in our island leaders, new or old. Being able to kill your father for the island shows that you'd  do what is needed to do for a greater good. 
and I agree, I always said that I would want to have Ben on my side. I looooove his calmness coolness and collectedness!