Author Topic: Locke not Knowing Richard  (Read 12257 times)

Offline SQUIRT199

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Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2009, 01:42:16 PM »
I THINK what squirt is saying is that the plane that yemmy was on really first crashed when locke saw it crash last Wednesday. and that when locke first saw the plane with Boone it was a premonition or some sort or fortelling of the future. am I right?

That couldn't be the case because yemmi's brother Eko knew when he left on that plane and knew when he died. and he had died a long time before the 815ers crashed on the island. there are a lot of other reasons i can't think of right now with a head cold...

You do understand, but....

Ekko would still know when he left and he would die at the same time according to Yemmis body and decay because that is eventually what happened,  but when the plane took off its flight was interrupted by the island appearing somewhere it wasnt until say ten years later,

I say that if Ben did not move the island the plane would have taken off in the past and then landed at its intended destination, nothing fishy,

But,  if it was going to be interupted/crash landing on the island becuase that is what was going to happen whether it be ten years from when the plane actually took off or (to Yemmi and plane crew) the same day they took off, the point is it was going to happen so it was there when locke and boone first saw it. I am not saying that the plane boone and locke first encountered was an apparition but IT WAS the plane that was going to crash land a few months later, (from locke/boone perspective)  but actually happened int he past  but couldnt/wouldnt have happened if ben did not move the island.

Offline Writers_Strike

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Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2009, 01:52:12 PM »
Stupid fate >:(

Offline SQUIRT199

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Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2009, 01:53:18 PM »
Its alot like what came first, the chicken or the egg?

How can the plane be on the island in the past if it wont crash until the future, but since in the future it will crash in what was the past it will be on the island before the 815'ers, even though it wont happen till after the Island moves the 815'ers still see it because it crashed in the past.

Offline Mrs Hume

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Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2009, 02:06:23 PM »
OK, yes, i understand. i know you were saying the plane was real when Boone and he saw it. and i get the idea of which came first theory.
But i think what happened happened then and now the island is just going back in time and it is happening all over again. and that is how we know time is skipping back on the island and not forward. it is a bookmark.

Offline Alex2000

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Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2009, 02:16:02 PM »
How can the plane be on the island in the past if it wont crash until the future, but since in the future it will crash in what was the past it will be on the island before the 815'ers, even though it wont happen till after the Island moves the 815'ers still see it because it crashed in the past.


Why do you think it crashes in the "future"? It seemed clear that Locke and the other 815ers had just been time-skipped back to events pre-815-crash but post Dharma extermination. Remember that we see Sawyer and the others examining "the hatch" area. We see Sawyer and the gang leaving their now-gone camp, then it cuts to Locke and his sighting of the plane. It is safe to assume that he is time-skipping along with the other 815ers (we even see them together at the end of the episode).

 I'll borrow from my previous post with the time-line and include the plane crash.

1) Locke is timeshifted back to the early 50s. (It might have already happened. Don't you think that the uniforms and weapons of the soldiers that Juliet, Sawyer and finally Locke were fighting looked like they were WW2 era?). Locke tells Richard to help him in the (very) distant future with his wound.

2) Locke meets Richard for the "first" time (keeping in mind that Richard doesn't age). Using the compass to prove who he is (somehow).
   Richard visits Locke as a baby in 1956 then again as a child in 1961 where the compass is one of the items shown to him.

3) Locke and the 815ers are time skipped.[Pre-Oceanic 815 Crash, but Post-Dharma genocide and Ben's takeover]Sawyer and the 815ers leave the beach where their camp will be in the future. Locke sees the drug plane (with Eko's brother on it) crash into the island. He goes to the crash site. Locke appears before Ethan (who doesn't know Locke yet) who then confronts him. Ethan would obviously tell Richard about this encounter (confirming what Locke told Richard in the "past").

4) Oceanic 815 Crashes, events of season 1 to 4 take place, Locke takes over the others.  

5) Ben turns wheel, things go nuts, Richard watches the crashed plane site for the "foretold" appearance of the wounded Locke.

« Last Edit: January 26, 2009, 02:28:36 PM by Alex2000 »

Offline CastawayCayley

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Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
« Reply #35 on: January 26, 2009, 02:22:17 PM »
Its alot like what came first, the chicken or the egg?

How can the plane be on the island in the past if it wont crash until the future, but since in the future it will crash in what was the past it will be on the island before the 815'ers, even though it wont happen till after the Island moves the 815'ers still see it because it crashed in the past.

OK, yes, i understand. i know you were saying the plane was real when Boone and he saw it. and i get the idea of which came first theory.
But i think what happened happened then and now the island is just going back in time and it is happening all over again. and that is how we know time is skipping back on the island and not forward. it is a bookmark.
I think Mrs. Hume is right; the beechcraft didnt crash because the losties are jumping, it just crashed for whatever reasons it crashed. Locke just jumped to that part in the established timeline of the island and witnessed it.

Offline SQUIRT199

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Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2009, 02:25:13 PM »
How can the plane be on the island in the past if it wont crash until the future, but since in the future it will crash in what was the past it will be on the island before the 815'ers, even though it wont happen till after the Island moves the 815'ers still see it because it crashed in the past.


Why do you think it crashes in the "future"? It seemed clear that Locke and the other 815ers had just been time-skipped back to events pre-815-crash but post Dharma extermination. I'll borrow from my previous post with the time-line and include the plane crash.

1) Locke is timeshifted back to the early 50s. (It might have already happened. Don't you think that the uniforms and weapons of the soldiers that Juliet, Sawyer and finally Locke were fighting looked like they were WW2 era?). Locke tells Richard to help him in the (very) distant future with his wound.

2) Locke meets Richard for the "first" time (keeping in mind that Richard doesn't age). Using the compass to prove who he is (somehow).
   Richard visits Locke as a baby in 1956 then again as a child in 1961 where the compass is one of the items shown to him.

3) Locke and the 815ers are time skipped.[Pre-Oceanic 815 Crash, but Post-Dharma genocide and Ben's takeover] Locke sees the drug plane (with Eko's brother on it) crash into the island. He goes to the crash site. Locke appears before Ethan (who doesn't know Locke yet) who then confronts him. Ethan would obviously tell Richard about this encounter (confirming what Locke told Richard in the "past").Still fits but this is the first time the plane comes to the island, since it is in the islands past the plane is seen by locke and boone in the future because it will happen

4) Oceanic 815 Crashes, events of season 1 to 4 take place, Locke takes over the others.  

5) Ben turns wheel, things go nuts, Richard watches the crashed plane site for the "foretold" appearance of the wounded Locke.



Offline Mrs Hume

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Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2009, 02:27:39 PM »
you know what. I see what you mean. it happeneds in the future past. (lol) it is possible but i don't think for the sake of the casual viewer that they would go that deep.

Offline SQUIRT199

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Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
« Reply #38 on: January 26, 2009, 02:28:32 PM »
OK, yes, i understand. i know you were saying the plane was real when Boone and he saw it. and i get the idea of which came first theory.
But i think what happened happened then and now the island is just going back in time and it is happening all over again. and that is how we know time is skipping back on the island and not forward. it is a bookmark.

Thats what I thought initially but this thought came to me on Saturday as I watched the episode again.  Just a thought is all, but interesting

Offline Mrs Hume

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Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
« Reply #39 on: January 26, 2009, 02:33:30 PM »
that is exactly where i get all confused about time travel. the what comes first factor.. so the way i think it is , is there is a base line. one that never changes and came first. Then, every thing else can slide up and down on that time line,back or forth.  ? ? ?  ???   

Offline Writers_Strike

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Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
« Reply #40 on: January 26, 2009, 03:09:12 PM »
Unless the island is also moving, then you can not account for the beechcraft making it that far. How about the Blackrock, did the island pop up underneath it as we all assume? The island is definitely moving around, we just don't know if it moves when the losties time travel. I say no on that one.

Offline lostfromthestart

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Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
« Reply #41 on: January 26, 2009, 03:32:09 PM »
The island is not moving as the Lostee Time Travelling Tour Group jumps around.  The island only moves when the donkey wheel gets turned.  The moral of the story - You gotta turn the donkey wheel if you want the island to dance..... or something like that....

Offline Mrs Hume

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Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
« Reply #42 on: January 26, 2009, 03:34:05 PM »
right. a while ago, everyone here. well,maybe not everyone , but a lot of people ,thought that maybe the island did move and that , that was how the black rock got there. by the island popping up from under it. Not so far fetched these days, but maybe it is more like the island wasn't as big yrs ago when it crashed there, and has since evolved or changed through (natural) time the way land and water changes things naturally. But, I thought dan said it wasn't the island that was moving.
                                                

Offline SQUIRT199

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Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
« Reply #43 on: January 26, 2009, 03:44:54 PM »
I thought Daniel was not sure which but just as likely to be the survivors but left it at possibly both the Island and the losties

I say the island is moving thru both space and time, and the losties are moving with it.

Offline PrincessLeia

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Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
« Reply #44 on: January 26, 2009, 03:53:50 PM »
Unless the island is also moving, then you can not account for the beechcraft making it that far. How about the Blackrock, did the island pop up underneath it as we all assume? The island is definitely moving around, we just don't know if it moves when the losties time travel. I say no on that one.
The Island is stationary, but since it is dislodged from the timeline, the space it occupies is determined by the position of the earth @ that exact time in history.  (That's the significance of the pendulum in Ms. Hawkings' lab.)  The Island did "pop up" in the path of the Beechcraft, just as it has (or will ;) ) under the Black Rock.