Author Topic: O6 Season 5 lie  (Read 5469 times)

Offline Matt_at_TSH

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Re: O6 Season 5 lie
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2009, 10:30:40 AM »
Thanks PL,

Here is also an angle I was pondering.

Q: How do you do you get 6+ people to walk away from the peices of their lives that they have struggled so hard to regain?
A: You expose them as fruads.

Q: Who would have the motivation and means to expose the O6.
A: Ben

Q: Why would Ben risk exposing the O6?
A: Exposing the O6 could essentially send them into hiding. Imagine the lawsuits and media circus surrounding such a huge cover up. All Ben would have to do is pick up the peices.

Q: What is Bens motivation?
A: If Bens statements to John were true in regards to "Whomever moves the Island can never return", what better way to try and cheat this principle than to surround yourself by those that are bound by fate to return to the Island.



Of course this is all speculation.

I do agree that the "Lie" aspect of season 5 will not run the course of the season, though I do find it to be an interesting topic. Anyway, I have been enjoying evreyones courtesy and ideas. Thanks for the welcome...

Offline BobBX542

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Re: O6 Season 5 lie
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2009, 10:51:58 AM »
Well, Aaron is going to be key to the whole thing I think. I mean, if you have seen the sneak peek video, you know what happens. I won't say it here in case you haven't, but there's one way. As far as Michael?? Well, technically it would be him after his demise, because I think that the boat that blew up and killed him (Thank you LOST writers) will never be found, and all knowledge of the boat will disavowed. Plus, he had a different name on the boat, so even if they find ID, it will say something else. But he is on record in the hospital after he tried to kill himself in the car, so there's another one right there. Sun's 11 month pregnancy?? Did I miss something there?? Anyway, I'm sure there are a whole bunch of ways to find the lie, we'll just have to wait and see. Plus, I think that like in the video on the S4 special features, alot of people on the show are going to want to know what happened thinking it was just cannibalism, never suspecting the Mysterious Island of Mystery to be so, well, mysterious.

I just rewatched this epi the other day and I hadnt noticed before, but in the hospital he has that vision of Libby who does call him Mr. Dawson, but then when he snaps out of it/wakes up the "real" nurse walks in and mentions that he had no ID and he wont tell them who he is, so they don't actually have him on record at the hospital. Not that it really matters though, since I agree we probably wont be seeing Michael again.

from the transcript (and I only add this so I can practice my transcript-fu for the upcoming season :)):
NURSE: Ugh. Let's get some light in here. Now I thought I heard someone shout, and something tells me it wasn't him. You okay? (Sighs) You're lucky to be alive. E.M.T.S say they found you in a wrecked car with a note pinned to your chest. You didn't have any I.D. on you. Want to tell me your name? (sighs) Yeah, I didn't think so. You want me to call Walt?
MICHAEL: What?
NURSE: The note pinned to your chest. It was written to "Walt". You want me to call him?
MICHAEL: (Whispers) No.
NURSE: Okay, then.
(Door opens and shuts)

My recollection of him being on record in the hospital is actually just me thinking that he would have to be. Now that you give the transcript of the episode, I do remember it, thanks.

Offline LostinLock

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Re: O6 Season 5 lie
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2009, 12:57:29 PM »
Thanks PL,

Here is also an angle I was pondering.

Q: How do you do you get 6+ people to walk away from the peices of their lives that they have struggled so hard to regain?
A: You expose them as fruads.

Q: Who would have the motivation and means to expose the O6.
A: Ben

Q: Why would Ben risk exposing the O6?
A: Exposing the O6 could essentially send them into hiding. Imagine the lawsuits and media circus surrounding such a huge cover up. All Ben would have to do is pick up the peices.

Q: What is Bens motivation?
A: If Bens statements to John were true in regards to "Whomever moves the Island can never return", what better way to try and cheat this principle than to surround yourself by those that are bound by fate to return to the Island.



Of course this is all speculation.

I do agree that the "Lie" aspect of season 5 will not run the course of the season, though I do find it to be an interesting topic. Anyway, I have been enjoying evreyones courtesy and ideas. Thanks for the welcome...

Yeah good thoughts but one thing Charlie (confirmed dead) has told Hurley they need you.  So Ben trying to get them back so he can go back could be a reason, but again why expose them after all that time.  Not a good enough reason.  Also the person that has truly brought them was Locke as he did the door to door knocking.  He and Ben are not friends and Ben is the only person who can  bring them back to the island. 

Ben, friend or foe, holds the key to getting them all back. If you recall Jack tried to get back by flying and getting drunk and he couldn't.

I understand where you are going with this but, there is an imbalance and they all have to go back ,not just the O6, Ben was specific that Locke had to join them.  So the exposing of our six losties does not benefit him.

Additionally something tells me the money that has been put to our folks was backed up.  Oceanic knows full well they are not repsonsible and if they did put the money out then someone paid for their insurance policy.

 ;D

Offline jugdish

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Re: O6 Season 5 lie
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2009, 01:09:14 PM »
This is an awesome discussion.

Offline BobBX542

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Re: O6 Season 5 lie
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2009, 01:24:27 PM »
I think that the amount of time that has passed is going to be very significant as to how, and why they all get back. Keep in mind that all four seasons took place between September 2004 and January 2005 (approxamtely), and now the show is taking place in the current time?? Please correct me if I'm wrong about that. But if it's been 4 years since they have been off the island, Locke could have shown up to tell them the island is in trouble "last week" (you know what I mean there) or it could have been in February of 2005. So there are lots of factors that we're going to have to take into account.

Offline LostinLock

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Re: O6 Season 5 lie
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2009, 01:31:02 PM »
Bobx thanks.  It has been a number of years and so the lie has lived longer than someone wanting to tear the lie/fabrication/story apart.  And if you remember one thing and this is important, Locke told Jack that they would have to lie. 

 ::)  rush in music  dah ta don ::)

Offline jugdish

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Re: O6 Season 5 lie
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2009, 01:35:19 PM »
During Kate and Jack's meeting by the airport, Kate said it took her 3 years to get over what happened the day they left. So they are in current time off the island.

So are the ones left behind on the island going to be there for the 3 years that the Oceanic 6 have been off the island? I do not have a big sci fi background so the whole time issue gets me screwed up.

Offline LostinLock

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Re: O6 Season 5 lie
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2009, 11:37:29 PM »
Interesting watching last three episodes especially with the enhancements.

It appears that the lies were never pursued, because there is money and power helping keeping the lie out of the public scrutiny.  Mr. Widmore wants answers and knows that they lied, Sun broached him with that fact, he of course was aloof.  But we know that Widmore's man was outside Santa Rosa and as Hurley told Walt, we have to lie to protect those who are left.

So the logical reason the "lie" was left alone is again, power, money and a bigger secret the Island.

that's my story and I am sticking to this one

Offline Asmodean

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Re: O6 Season 5 lie
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2009, 12:00:57 PM »
Hey you have to remember that in there story.  They say that 8 people survive the crash.  Three die later then Kate has Aaron.  That is the six.  I have not watched the Season 4 dvd part of the interview so I do not know if there was more to it.  But on the show it self they do not say who the other 3 people were.  So you could assume that one of the three was Jin therefore impregnating Sun on the island.                                     

In There's No Place Like Home Part 1, Jack said it was Boone, Libby, & Charlie at the O6 Press Conference.

Offline laklost

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Re: O6 Season 5 lie
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2009, 05:32:31 PM »
During Kate and Jack's meeting by the airport, Kate said it took her 3 years to get over what happened the day they left. So they are in current time off the island.

So are the ones left behind on the island going to be there for the 3 years that the Oceanic 6 have been off the island? I do not have a big sci fi background so the whole time issue gets me screwed up.

And there's no telling if these writers are going to do something new with time travel stuff.  My gut says that 3 years off the island does not equal 3 years on.  Remember that in The Constant Penny got Desmond's call when she was living in 1994 (is that right?  10 years before?) and he was on a boat in 2004.  Her experience of getting that phone call informed her experience for the next 10 years (I'm sure I'm wrong..too lazy to look it up right now).  I think that is the WHAT FOR - even if we don't get the "how." 

Offline CastawayCayley

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Re: O6 Season 5 lie
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2009, 06:59:29 PM »
During Kate and Jack's meeting by the airport, Kate said it took her 3 years to get over what happened the day they left. So they are in current time off the island.

So are the ones left behind on the island going to be there for the 3 years that the Oceanic 6 have been off the island? I do not have a big sci fi background so the whole time issue gets me screwed up.

And there's no telling if these writers are going to do something new with time travel stuff.  My gut says that 3 years off the island does not equal 3 years on.  Remember that in The Constant Penny got Desmond's call when she was living in 1994 (is that right?  10 years before?) and he was on a boat in 2004.  Her experience of getting that phone call informed her experience for the next 10 years (I'm sure I'm wrong..too lazy to look it up right now).  I think that is the WHAT FOR - even if we don't get the "how." 

I think you're  bit mistaken. He went to her in 1996 and asked for her phone number and told her not to change it for 8 years. Then he called her on Christmas Eve 2004, so that was real time. But after she gave him the phone number she had 8 years to start trying to find him. She has the tracking station which got that blip when the hatch blew up, and then she got the phone call, and then somehow was able to use both those to find him a week or two after the phone call.

Offline E.S.B.

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Re: O6 Season 5 lie
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2009, 08:08:10 PM »
I do think it's possible that time moves differently on the Island and off the Island, so I would not be shocked at all if when the O6 get back it may not necessarily be at the same point in time.

I'm currently trying to read Hawking's A Brief History of Time, and though most of it is over my head, one thing I did get out of it is that the force of gravity changes how fast time moves.  So in other words, the closer you are to an object with more mass, the slower (or faster? can't remember) time moves.  Maybe the electromagnetic properties of the Island have a similar affect.  Or maybe not - maybe the properties just cause a bending of time upon entering/exiting the Island (remember the rocket Faraday launched).

We shall see!

Offline LostinLock

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Re: O6 Season 5 lie
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2009, 09:39:32 PM »
During Kate and Jack's meeting by the airport, Kate said it took her 3 years to get over what happened the day they left. So they are in current time off the island.

So are the ones left behind on the island going to be there for the 3 years that the Oceanic 6 have been off the island? I do not have a big sci fi background so the whole time issue gets me screwed up.

And there's no telling if these writers are going to do something new with time travel stuff.  My gut says that 3 years off the island does not equal 3 years on.  Remember that in The Constant Penny got Desmond's call when she was living in 1994 (is that right?  10 years before?) and he was on a boat in 2004.  Her experience of getting that phone call informed her experience for the next 10 years (I'm sure I'm wrong..too lazy to look it up right now).  I think that is the WHAT FOR - even if we don't get the "how." 

I think you're  bit mistaken. He went to her in 1996 and asked for her phone number and told her not to change it for 8 years. Then he called her on Christmas Eve 2004, so that was real time. But after she gave him the phone number she had 8 years to start trying to find him. She has the tracking station which got that blip when the hatch blew up, and then she got the phone call, and then somehow was able to use both those to find him a week or two after the phone call.


Yes it is known fact it was 8 years.  And yes, she did find him, after the blip!



 yes time is different on the island, Faraday said there was a different. but they are in real time off the island and on the enhanced episode Aaron is three. 

Offline Hurley rocks dudes

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Re: O6 Season 5 lie
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2009, 04:47:31 PM »
Hey you have to remember that in there story.  They say that 8 people survive the crash.  Three die later then Kate has Aaron.  That is the six.  I have not watched the Season 4 dvd part of the interview so I do not know if there was more to it.  But on the show it self they do not say who the other 3 people were.  So you could assume that one of the three was Jin therefore impregnating Sun on the island.                                     
I know that as soon as I say this, you'll say, "Oh yeah!" but they did say who the others were @ the press conference on part 1 of the s4 finale.

Quote
JACK: One of them, his name is Boone Carlyle, suffered tremendous internal injuries and died a few days after the crash. A woman, Libby, she didn't make it through the first week. Charlie Pace, he drowned a few weeks before we were able to leave.

then Sun said this...

Quote
SUN: The answer is no. He never made it off the plane.
(when asked if Jin was one of the passengers who died on the Island.)

Then Jin's tombstone on "Ji Yeon" had the plane crash date as the date of death.




btw, Matt- I love your idea about Claire's note.  dang....I had almost forgotten about that episode, too.  Like I was supposed to, perhaps? ;)
when i watched that scene again, i wondered why they didn't claim jin to be one of the guys who made it off the plane, but didn't survive... if they had said that, then they would have had solid proof for sun's pregnancy timing and all that...

Offline jugdish

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Re: O6 Season 5 lie
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2009, 04:56:44 PM »
I agree, I would like an explanation on why they chose the three that they did.

Charlie because there would of been some interest in what happened to him, but why the other two?