Author Topic: the others  (Read 9399 times)

Offline LostinAlaska

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Re: the others
« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2008, 05:08:56 AM »
I wonder if in his plan, Alex was alive.

Ahahaha... good stuff

Keamy Shmeamy, honestly the guy does a great job being an aye hole just as great as Richard gives me nightmares with his black eyes. Agad!  Now on the forums I'm gonna try to find out who people think the tall creepy black guy is that pushed Locke around in his wheelchair (amongst other creepy moments)

Offline BobBX542

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Re: the others
« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2008, 10:10:44 AM »
Not sure which freaky silent people you mean.  ;)

I'm really hoping this is sarcasm, because the people I'm talking about couldn't have been missed by a Dharma workman (or Woman). The people that moved through the jungle with no noise, carrying the teddy bear on a rope or something like it. For a while, the whispers were being attributed to them.

I wonder if in his plan, Alex was alive.

Ahahaha... good stuff

Keamy Shmeamy, honestly the guy does a great job being an aye hole just as great as Richard gives me nightmares with his black eyes. Agad!  Now on the forums I'm gonna try to find out who people think the tall creepy black guy is that pushed Locke around in his wheelchair (amongst other creepy moments)

Are you talking about Abbadon?? The guy who came to visit Hurley?? There really shouldn't be any discussion, unless you mean why was he talking to Locke as well.

Offline LostAndSeek

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Re: the others
« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2008, 02:26:22 PM »
Ah, those freaky silent people.

Those were the Others, yes? One of the kids they 'napped is carrying the teddy bear.

Offline BobBX542

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Re: the others
« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2008, 03:14:56 PM »
Ah, those freaky silent people.

Those were the Others, yes? One of the kids they 'napped is carrying the teddy bear.

And that is my question. The first time we saw them, is that after (in the timeline of the show, not the order of episodes) the children were kidnapped??

Offline LostAndSeek

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Re: the others
« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2008, 04:00:27 PM »
Oh yeah, well after. The kids were taken within a couple of weeks of the crash. We don't see 'em tromping through the jungle until some time after the raftees wash up on shore.

Offline BobBX542

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Re: the others
« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2008, 04:06:44 PM »
Oh yeah, well after. The kids were taken within a couple of weeks of the crash. We don't see 'em tromping through the jungle until some time after the raftees wash up on shore.

So Eko was there?? Okay, I wasn't sure.

Offline LostAndSeek

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Re: the others
« Reply #36 on: May 19, 2008, 06:55:47 PM »
Right, Eko and Jin saw the scene you mentioned, along about day 45.

Offline qgardens

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Re: the others
« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2008, 11:18:51 PM »
I wonder to what extent he's [Richard] playing the good lieutenant, following Ben's orders in this time of war?

Richard is following Ben's orders?  I may not be as versed in the nuances of the story as the rest of y'all, but in my book, Ben is following Richard's orders whether he knows it or not.  So is John.

Offline laklost

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Re: the others
« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2008, 11:43:18 PM »
I wonder to what extent he's [Richard] playing the good lieutenant, following Ben's orders in this time of war?

Richard is following Ben's orders?  I may not be as versed in the nuances of the story as the rest of y'all, but in my book, Ben is following Richard's orders whether he knows it or not.  So is John.

Welcome, QGardens!  In my opinion the pecking order on display in "The Man Behind the Curtain" really does not show Ben answering to Richard.  What about their relationship makes you think that Richard is calling the shots?

Offline BobBX542

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Re: the others
« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2008, 11:52:31 PM »
I wonder to what extent he's [Richard] playing the good lieutenant, following Ben's orders in this time of war?

Richard is following Ben's orders?  I may not be as versed in the nuances of the story as the rest of y'all, but in my book, Ben is following Richard's orders whether he knows it or not.  So is John.

Welcome, QGardens!  In my opinion the pecking order on display in "The Man Behind the Curtain" really does not show Ben answering to Richard.  What about their relationship makes you think that Richard is calling the shots?

I deffinitely do not feel this either, but I am intrigued.

Offline qgardens

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Re: the others
« Reply #40 on: May 20, 2008, 09:09:36 PM »
I wonder to what extent he's [Richard] playing the good lieutenant, following Ben's orders in this time of war?

Richard is following Ben's orders?  I may not be as versed in the nuances of the story as the rest of y'all, but in my book, Ben is following Richard's orders whether he knows it or not.  So is John.

Welcome, QGardens!  In my opinion the pecking order on display in "The Man Behind the Curtain" really does not show Ben answering to Richard.  What about their relationship makes you think that Richard is calling the shots?

I deffinitely do not feel this either, but I am intrigued.
Laklost and Bob:  Thank you for the welcome.  Without going and re-watching TMBTC (and yes, I probably will), I respond:  First, my thoughts on Richard being "above" Ben in the scheme of things:  I perceive that Richard already "existed" on the island, in time, what have you, before Ben, and Richard is the key to the island's mysteries.  After all, Richard is the one who reached out to/sought out both Ben and John, two of the people who he knows have the strongest connection with the island.  I can't see that Ben alone realized the magic and the mystery of the island before anyone else did.  There is also too much we don't know about Richard yet; maybe I missed some bits on Richard, but he's still a huge enigma to me. Either way, whether Richard or Ben calls the shots, we just haven't been shown everything yet about that distribution of power; for example (correct me if I missed it) the "real" reason Richard gave Ben to convince him to orchestrate the purge.  Just like Ben isn't being "completely truthful" with those around him, so it goes what we, the audience, have seen thus far is not the "complete truth".  Then I add in fact that Ben likes to feel "in control".  Fine.  He wants to be in control, Richard will let him think he's in control.  I see Ben as being manipulated (by either/and/or Richard/other players) in the same way he's manipulating others into thinking they are making their own decisions (Sawyer killing Cooper, Sayid killing Nadia's assassin, and  most of all, John).

That said, I will reiterate that I am not nor do I claim to be as versed in the intricacies of every epi - that's what makes the show interesting and reading the board so enjoyable for me.  I read the theories and commentary, but that's just it: I read it, I think about it, and I move on with my own perception. I perceive that despite what we've seen so far, Richard is calling the shots.  If I'm way off base, so be it:  that just means the reveals are that much sweeter.   You can counter that it's easy to dig out The Truth from what we are being shown via episodes, interactive websites, podcasts, the myriad of mathematical and scientific references, etc.  Fine also. I don't have the time or interest to follow those or to analyze every detail of the episodes.  But I also don't knock the analysis presented here on the board - on the contrary, I defer to those whose participation is more active than mine. But if I allowed myself to hold everything that everyone else thinks as gospel, I'd be bored - there would be no wonder and none of those stunning payoffs.  I don't really mind if I'm wrong about this - when it comes down to it, my experience of it is in between my own ears.  Reading the board enhances it and makes me go "hmm", but it doesn't change the show's meaning for me.  I've been painfully wrong in my guesses before (anyone remember my guest post that referenced The Secret of NIMH with re to the dog in the painting?), but there are days when I feel I'm on the right track in agreeing with some of the discussion (the Odyssean qualities of the Des/Pen story for one).  Isn't that what discussion is all about?  It isn't a race to crack the secrets of the story before the series concludes...at least for me.  Why keep watching if I know all the answers? 

Offline Gar O Mac

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Re: the others
« Reply #41 on: May 20, 2008, 10:07:34 PM »
I wonder to what extent he's [Richard] playing the good lieutenant, following Ben's orders in this time of war?

Richard is following Ben's orders?  I may not be as versed in the nuances of the story as the rest of y'all, but in my book, Ben is following Richard's orders whether he knows it or not.  So is John.

Welcome, QGardens!  In my opinion the pecking order on display in "The Man Behind the Curtain" really does not show Ben answering to Richard.  What about their relationship makes you think that Richard is calling the shots?

I deffinitely do not feel this either, but I am intrigued.
Laklost and Bob:  Thank you for the welcome.  Without going and re-watching TMBTC (and yes, I probably will), I respond:  First, my thoughts on Richard being "above" Ben in the scheme of things:  I perceive that Richard already "existed" on the island, in time, what have you, before Ben, and Richard is the key to the island's mysteries.  After all, Richard is the one who reached out to/sought out both Ben and John, two of the people who he knows have the strongest connection with the island.  I can't see that Ben alone realized the magic and the mystery of the island before anyone else did.  There is also too much we don't know about Richard yet; maybe I missed some bits on Richard, but he's still a huge enigma to me. Either way, whether Richard or Ben calls the shots, we just haven't been shown everything yet about that distribution of power; for example (correct me if I missed it) the "real" reason Richard gave Ben to convince him to orchestrate the purge.  Just like Ben isn't being "completely truthful" with those around him, so it goes what we, the audience, have seen thus far is not the "complete truth".  Then I add in fact that Ben likes to feel "in control".  Fine.  He wants to be in control, Richard will let him think he's in control.  I see Ben as being manipulated (by either/and/or Richard/other players) in the same way he's manipulating others into thinking they are making their own decisions (Sawyer killing Cooper, Sayid killing Nadia's assassin, and  most of all, John).

That said, I will reiterate that I am not nor do I claim to be as versed in the intricacies of every epi - that's what makes the show interesting and reading the board so enjoyable for me.  I read the theories and commentary, but that's just it: I read it, I think about it, and I move on with my own perception. I perceive that despite what we've seen so far, Richard is calling the shots.  If I'm way off base, so be it:  that just means the reveals are that much sweeter.   You can counter that it's easy to dig out The Truth from what we are being shown via episodes, interactive websites, podcasts, the myriad of mathematical and scientific references, etc.  Fine also. I don't have the time or interest to follow those or to analyze every detail of the episodes.  But I also don't knock the analysis presented here on the board - on the contrary, I defer to those whose participation is more active than mine. But if I allowed myself to hold everything that everyone else thinks as gospel, I'd be bored - there would be no wonder and none of those stunning payoffs.  I don't really mind if I'm wrong about this - when it comes down to it, my experience of it is in between my own ears.  Reading the board enhances it and makes me go "hmm", but it doesn't change the show's meaning for me.  I've been painfully wrong in my guesses before (anyone remember my guest post that referenced The Secret of NIMH with re to the dog in the painting?), but there are days when I feel I'm on the right track in agreeing with some of the discussion (the Odyssean qualities of the Des/Pen story for one).  Isn't that what discussion is all about?  It isn't a race to crack the secrets of the story before the series concludes...at least for me.  Why keep watching if I know all the answers? 
Well Q, I'll be keeping my eye on you.

Offline Optimus J

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Re: the others
« Reply #42 on: May 21, 2008, 12:18:01 AM »
But the others caught Cindy, the kids, killed that guy to get Claire back, and we know they did it, and they left no tracks in those ocasions. Even when they get the weapons, pointing a gun at Kate, the survivors can't find their tracks.
There is no doubt that they were the people of New Othertown and they left no tracks on those ocasions.

Offline laklost

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Re: the others
« Reply #43 on: May 21, 2008, 12:27:41 AM »
You made some good points about Richard, QGardens.  Keep 'em coming!

Offline qgardens

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Re: the others
« Reply #44 on: May 21, 2008, 01:31:38 AM »
You made some good points about Richard, QGardens.  Keep 'em coming!
Well Q, I'll be keeping my eye on you.
Thanks, Laklost, and "sounds good" Gar O Mac.  Jay-sus, I waited four years to participate?  That must be a world lurking record.  ;D