Destiny is not a fickle bitch...

[xrayeck]

...it's a bunch of guys with a time machine.

[T Mack]

agreed

[Jungle Otter]

....it's an enigma wrapped in a riddle nestled in the sweet goodness of a mallomar

[Maxor127]

I don't think so.  The show made it clear what the limits of time travel were, and if there was time travel, then it would cheapen the show and make anything changeable.  I think characters like Richard have flashes of the future like Desmond has or some sort of clairvoyancy.

[Folly529]

It is so much at odds with Ben's usual take on destiny/fate.  He repeatedly returns to the importance of being special and being chosen, and the connection of that status to one's destiny. 

One can respond to that destiny - fulfill it, fight it, run from it, deny it, etc. - but not change it materially.

The dumb thing about that scene is that the line really is more reflective of Locke's philosophy than Ben's.

[TheGoodPeople]

Ben's attitude has really changed since Alex was killed

[opgelost]

It was the first time I agreed with Ben.

Destiny is what brought them all to the island and controlled them from birth.
They have no free will at all. They are constantly supposed to do or don't do things and are guided in the direction they have to go.
When they try to change destiny, something happens to coursecorrect.
That can be a caraccident, a bus hitting your ex, Miss Hawkin or Abbadon who tell you, a miracle, guns that don't work etc.

John's destiny was this from the moment he was born. Someone tried to stop it by hitting his mother with a car, but he survived even if he was born at 6 months (a miracle), he was pushed out a high building and survived (a miracle), he can walk again (a miracle), he got shot and didn't die (a miracle). A lot of miracles happened to Locke, or he just couldn't die from the start.

They have no choice, so destiny is a fickle bitch.

[LostAndSeek]

I agree that rampant time travel cheapens the show and the Powers have said they won't go there.

Maxor, what have you noticed about Richard that I missed? What makes you think he's having flashes? He's too old for menopause. 

[Maxor127]

It's just the only other explanation I can think of at the moment to explain how he'd track down Locke at birth (since I don't think he's the dad) and sort of guide him towards his destiny.  The same with Abaddon setting Locke on the path that would put him on Flight 815.  The thing that's really bugging me is Richard and Abaddon seem to be on separate sides, but they were both guiding Locke towards his destiny?

[Suzanne4Au2]

It's just the only other explanation I can think of at the moment to explain how he'd track down Locke at birth (since I don't think he's the dad) and sort of guide him towards his destiny.  The same with Abaddon setting Locke on the path that would put him on Flight 815.  The thing that's really bugging me is Richard and Abaddon seem to be on separate sides, but they were both guiding Locke towards his destiny?

How do we know they are on different sides?

[Maxor127]

Because Richard is helping Ben and Abaddon sent the freighter team to capture/kill Ben.  We've seen Richard on the island a bunch of times but have never seen Abaddon on the island and according Abaddon's visit with Hurley, he doesn't know how to find it or who is still alive on it.

[Suzanne4Au2]

Because Richard is helping Ben and Abaddon sent the freighter team to capture/kill Ben.  We've seen Richard on the island a bunch of times but have never seen Abaddon on the island and according Abaddon's visit with Hurley, he doesn't know how to find it or who is still alive on it.

We saw Abbadon assemble Naomi's team not Keamy who is there to kill everyone

[Maxor127]

I think Abaddon assembled the entire freighter crew.  Naomi's team had their job and Keamy's team had their own job.  Afterall, even Naomi's team said that their primary mission was Ben.  Plus, Naomi seemed military so I think she's a part of Keamy's crew but she was tasked with protecting the science group while on the island.

[LostAndSeek]

I agree with Maxor that they're on separate sides. All the evidence we have is that Abbadon works for Widmore. That's enough right there to place him in opposition to Ben.

I don't think Richard's having flashes, but Jacob might well be.

[E.S.B.]

Because Richard is helping Ben and Abaddon sent the freighter team to capture/kill Ben.  We've seen Richard on the island a bunch of times but have never seen Abaddon on the island and according Abaddon's visit with Hurley, he doesn't know how to find it or who is still alive on it.

Jeff Jensen from ew.com had a great theory on this.  I'm paraphrasing, but he basically implied that Widmore and Richard were in cahoots and Locke was the chosen one to lead the Others.  Locke keeps getting recruited to go to the Island, but he doesn't go, so Ben is picked as a Plan B.  But Ben has done things differently and now Widmore's not happy with it.  So Abbadon works for Widmore and has been trying to get Locke to the Island, and now Richard is there and helping to try to overthrow Ben by facilitating Locke's destined rise to power.