The Island is to be saved and it moves?

[MangoBingo]

Precisely.  I've thought about starting a thread called "The Lost Stuff I Don't Want Answered." 

Yeah, I want to know the "why" behind Ms. Hawkins', Abbadon's, Richard's, Widmore's and Ben's motives - but I'm not that bothered about "how".

If Ms. Hawkins is only ever explained as an inter-dimensional temporal traffic warden, then so be it.

for those fellow comic book nerds out there, Ms. Hawking is the Time Broker

She sort of has an Agatha Harkness vibe too.

[MangoBingo]

Whenever or wherever the Island is moved, won't Keamy and company be along for the ride, unless John moves it before the chopper lands?

If it moves to an Arctic location and the Losties and Others are safely underground in The Temple (or wherever), the mercenaries would perish in the cold.

The Island would have killed the mercenaries itself, without anybody having to pick up a gun.

[Staggerlee]

That has the ring of some kind of retribution to it...cannot recall the specific word.....______ retribution....hmmmm

[T Mack]

Precisely.  I've thought about starting a thread called "The Lost Stuff I Don't Want Answered." 

Yeah, I want to know the "why" behind Ms. Hawkins', Abbadon's, Richard's, Widmore's and Ben's motives - but I'm not that bothered about "how".

If Ms. Hawkins is only ever explained as an inter-dimensional temporal traffic warden, then so be it.

for those fellow comic book nerds out there, Ms. Hawking is the Time Broker

She sort of has an Agatha Harkness vibe too.

I love it.  Ms. Hawkings as a time broker.  She could be a watcher or a handler as well.

[SQUIRT199]

If so, I missed it. Can you quote a passage?

This is part of the transcript of 'The Man From Tallahassee', from Lostpedia.

BEN: [turns around to look at Locke] I know you think you need to do this, John, but if you blow up my submarine, I have a big problem with my people.

LOCKE: Is that supposed to be an incentive not to blow it up?

BEN: [rolls over to Locke] I was born on this island. Not many of my people can say that. Most of them were recruited and brought here and as much as they love this place, as much as they would do anything to defend it, they need to know they can leave if they want to. The sub maintains that illusion.

LOCKE: So you're lying to them?

BEN: [exasperated] No! They're here because they want to be here! Some of them are just not ready to make a full... commitment yet.

I should add, that I was slightly incorrect, as this conversation was obviously prior to Locke blowing-up the submarine.

Now, you can read Ben's words two ways...

01. It's an illusion that The Others have a means to leave if they desire, meaning that Ben will never let them leave - by any means;

02. It's an illusion that the submarine is actually functional at all.

As we now know that Tom left and returned as he desired, it becomes more evident that Ben was literally using the word "illusion" in relation to the submarine. It was a prop.

I think the illusion is the fact Ben wont let them go?

But if they see SUB they will think that they can,  I am assuming that is what he meant and the sub was/is functional. (alot of debate whether Locke actually blew it up I think he did blow it u[p)

[DaveJohnson]

A few things from reading over the thread (my personal thoughts - hack away please!)

1. If you watch the Orchid video, you know there is a problem with time/space travel, as the rabbit comes back too early, presenting a classic time travel paradox - the rabbit can meet itself. I'm assuming this kind of paradox will come into play again.

2. Time/space travel obviously presents some issues in precision, as Ben has to ask what year it is when he arrived in the Sahara. This would make it difficult for use transporting people, if you didn't know what year you were sending them to! Plus, you have to be careful of the paradox in 1.

3. I don't know the 'frozen donkey wheel' reference - can someone explain?

4. Dharma can send things back in time - the polar bear that is excavated with the DI collar is proof. This could have been an accident tho.

5. I doubt they will be travelling to the arctic. To start, it would send the entire ecosystem in to shutdown - and what would be the point?

5a. Just a note, but Penny's people were looking for electromagnetic disturbances at the pole, since this is where the earth's electro/magnetic field touches down - BTW, good science by the writers - when I was in college I helped build these huge detectors that were placed at the poles to look for fluctuations in the EM fields... exactly as they pictured it. I don't think this implies the island will be moving there.

[MangoBingo]

If you watch the Orchid video, you know there is a problem with time/space travel, as the rabbit comes back too early, presenting a classic time travel paradox - the rabbit can meet itself. I'm assuming this kind of paradox will come into play again.

It's strange that the Lost universe's mechanism of "course correction" would presumably prevent those kinds of paradoxes, but in the Orchid Station video, it clearly hasn't.

Time/space travel obviously presents some issues in precision, as Ben has to ask what year it is when he arrived in the Sahara. This would make it difficult for use transporting people, if you didn't know what year you were sending them to!

Ben definitely looked like he'd been in a scuffle before arriving in Tunisia, as his arm was injured. The teleportation equipment may have been damaged or tampered with during this skirmish, causing Ben to be uncertain of his exact arrival date on that one occasion.

I believe that Michael and Walt's boat was teleported back to U.S. waters once it reached the horizon. I believe that Juliet was teleported to the island and then strapped into the submarine prior to her waking. I believe that Tom used the teleportation device to recruit Mike in New York and then return with Anthony Cooper.

I don't know the 'frozen donkey wheel' reference - can someone explain?

It's the code phrase which the producers have given to the finale of Season Four. They mentioned this in the official ABC Lost Podcast a few weeks ago.

Dharma can send things back in time - the polar bear that is excavated with the DI collar is proof. This could have been an accident tho.

I didn't pick up on it being ancient, just that it was in an unnatural enviroment.  I'll have to take another look.

I doubt they will be travelling to the arctic. To start, it would send the entire ecosystem in to shutdown - and what would be the point?

I'm sure the Island could just resurrect itself back to it's original state when transported back to tropical climes at a later date (as it has apparently done so to Christian Shepherd).

I don't think this implies the island will be moving there.

You never know!

[solost]

anyone saw a so called fake trailer with at the end penny walking on a mountain of snow it was on the net like when season two was running
it might have been fake.but if this is going to happen tottaly possible.

Where was that? Is it on YouTube still?

Just found it. It's fake but really good!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcjHpcuEe6w

The shots of Penny in the snow and jungle are from the TV move the Librarian 'THE SPEAR OF DESTINY'.....it is well done, it looks real.

[MangoBingo]

Interesting turn of phrase from the co-executive producer, Jean Higgins, in an interview with TV Guide...

http://community.tvguide.com/blog-entry/TV-Show-Blog/Tv-Previews/Lost-Finale-Preview/800039681

Remember the time you couldn't figure out how to move that sofa from one room to another? Lost co-executive producer Jean Higgins feels your pain. And then some. Right now, she's preparing to move an entire island. After all, that's what Christian Shephard advised Locke to do in the May 8th episode. Though Higgins isn't at liberty to reveal how such a feat will be attempted, she will say that it calls for a new set piece — and "a very interesting" one at that. "It will be cool," she adds, proudly.

[LostAndSeek]

Someone has probably already mentioned this, but I don't remember seeing it.

It's likely Ben et al (hey that means and Others) moved the Island right after Dharmacaust. This would explain Widmore's inability to locate it since. OTOH, it doesn't explain the continuation of the food drops unless Ben's behind those...

[Laklost]

I was thinking this morning too that the 15 years ago move was THE INCIDENT.

[MangoBingo]

OTOH, it doesn't explain the continuation of the food drops unless Ben's behind those...

It seems more than likely that the supplies are delivered via Ben's hand.

Doesn't the food have a preposterously long shelf-life? I'm sure that one of the Losties has mentioned this in the past. That being the case, it could have been stored on the Island for decades.

Why Ben would keep up the pretense of food drops though, is a mystery. He even wrote about being short on supplies in his journal.

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Ben's_diary

Perhaps his journal is just another prop like the submarine? Maybe he expects others to snoop and read it?

[LostAndSeek]

Mango, the food drops are still going on. The Losties found one a few weeks ago their time.

[MangoBingo]

Mango, the food drops are still going on. The Losties found one a few weeks ago their time.

I didn't mean literally by Ben's hands - I meant by his doing. I didn't mean that Ben was sneaking around in the night like the Easter Bunny.

The last "drop" occurred after Locke destroyed The Flame station (which was presumably used to order supplies) didn't it?

[Laklost]

Mango, the food drops are still going on. The Losties found one a few weeks ago their time.

I didn't mean literally by Ben's hands - I meant by his doing. I didn't mean that Ben was sneaking around in the night like the Easter Bunny.

The last "drop" occurred after Locke destroyed The Flame station (which was presumably used to order supplies) didn't it?

I am going to go way overboard with this, but I had a blast (door  ) reading these Lostpedia theories on the food drops.

1) DHARMA, the Others, nor the lockdown incident had anything to do with the supply drop. Instead the Magic Box theory has everything to do with it. Locke theoretically could have brought his father to the Island after he destroyed all the ways off of the Island, and once Hurley conquered his eating problem, the Island once again gave him food.

2) If nobody heard or saw a plane fly over, then maybe it was placed there, and the lockdown incident was there so anyone in the Hatch would not be able to see anyone place the supply drop out there, and the beacon and parachute is a cover up, so the survivors are led to believe that it came out of a plane, as whoever drew the map on the door would have thought the same. The Others faked the supply drop.

3)The supply drop could also have been made by balloon. A balloon is not affected by the magnetic properties of the Island. It would be silent as it made its approach and drop. It could be deployed and retrieved by a small boat.
A balloon would make a poor resupply vehicle as it is heavily dependant on winds. Trying to line up to drop a parcel at an exact point (and at night no less) is very difficult. It would take several trys until you could get the ballon to pass over the right spot, while a helocopter or plane could easily make the drop in one go.

4)The supply drop had to have originated from nearby land since the size of the package would mean at least a medium sized cargo plane would be required. Of course unless there is a runway around the other side of the Island, it is highly likely this plane had to have taken off from either Australia, New Zealand or a Pacific Island.

5) The time-differential theory explains its mysterious appearance. If there is a time differential between the Island and the outside world, then there is probably a sphere (think snowglobe) around the Island that is all island-time. Assuming the plane flies over the sphere and drops the pallet, then the airplane remains in normal-time. The pallet parachutes into the new time zone and voila, we get a pallet that seems to mysteriously appear without any plane to drop it. That's because the plane that dropped it--- from the Island perspective--- dropped it some other time!

6) The source of the supply drop is a facility located on, or near, the Island. The drop contains a kit with a case of vials, and in "One of Us", Juliet states that she has invented, or helped invent, the drug which requires a facility for producing such drugs nearby.

7) Somewhere in the real world, there is an enormous warehouse full of DHARMA Initiative supplies and a runway for a cargo plane. Every 6-8 months, the plane is loaded with a supply pallet, flies out to a specific point in the middle of the ocean, and (so far as they know) drop the pallet into the open sea from a high altitude. They don't ask questions, because they are paid a great deal of money to do this seemingly-pointless task. The reason it's still happening could very well be due to bureaucracy - even though the DHARMA Initiative is by all appearances defunct, and has been for nearly twenty years, nobody at the Hanso Foundation ever canceled the automatic payments to the pilots of the cargo plane or the warehouse workers. In other words, nobody ever told them to stop doing what they're doing. To the cargo plane pilots and the warehouse crew, it's just a very weird and apparently pointless, yet high-paying occasional job to do, once or twice a year.

The PRDs were actually sent from the island itself, but from the past to future times (evenly spaced in periods of 6-8 months) - teleportation/time-travel is at least heavily insinuated as possible in 4x09: The Shape of Things to Come. Presuming that the teleportation into the future has a reasonably short turnaround time, many future PRDs could be sent in a reasonable amount of time (in the past). This would explain the consistency of the contents of the PRDs (small selections from one bulk store), and also some anachronisms such as the apollo bars. The lock-downs are in effect because teleportation cannot specify the exact time/position (a la Heisenberg Uncertainty), so if the time is quite precise, the location will have unavoidable uncertainty associated with it - hence personnel must be kept clear from areas where the PRDs may appear.

Other Theories

1) The drops could account for the newer technology on the Island.

2) As long as the button is pushed, a station will remain active in the DHARMA Mainframe and will get supplies, but no other contact is allowed.

3) The pneumatic injector that Charlie found for Claire had 8 vials of vaccine. If it is to be injected every 9 days, then there should be a drop every 72 days. Or, if it is intended for two, than every 36 days.
Close-ups of the vials reveal the text "multiple dose vial"; see the article titled "CR 4-81516-23 42"
It is possible that each vial contains enough for multiple treatments.

4) The fact that all the food was repackaged could mean it was reprocessed/repackaged for long term storage in a jungle (hostile) environment. It also shows that there is (or was) a very large scale industrial capacity backing up the activities on the Island.

5) Since Mittelwerk has stated the work on the DHARMA Initiative finished some time ago, the supply droppers may be a faction of the old Hanso Foundation continuing on their original mission, and the Others might be people involved with that faction. It could also be some offshoot of the foundation working with Paik or Widmore.
We know that Thomas Mittelwerk quoted Alvar Hanso, so they are definitely working in some way with the DHARMA Initiative.

6) The supply drops mentioned in The Flame's computer are the drops that occur by The Swan, rather than being drops that take might place at The Flame or any other location. This is evidenced by the fact that Mikhail's alcohol had the Swan Station logo on it.

7) The Others are partly reliant on the supply drops (as evidenced by supplies in the Flame bearing the Swan logo). The Losties arrival near the site of the drop has messed this up, forcing them to take risks to correct the situation (Ben getting caught?) and to clear ground in safe territory to grow more food (the project on the Hydra island).

The food drops have stopped because of the implosion of The Swan and the explosion of The Flame. The Flame initiated the supply drop, while the Swan temporarily let down the 'cloak' of the Island allowing the drop to occur.
Mikhail may have been an original Dharma member loyal to Ben and not killed in the purge. As the one communicating with the outside world, he could have kept up the drops, and perhaps even kept up a facade of a purge never happening to those not on the Island.

9) The Blast Door Map Notations say "P.R.D. every 6-8 months. Fatalities: 5." Five people have died in connection with the supply drop.
The real Henry Gale died in connection with a supply drop.


10) The supply drop was sent in past. Because of the strange time thingy on the island it landed again.

11) The food drop was initiated manually by patchy from the flame in order to allow ben a chance to escape or contact the others via the swan computer when blast doors came down. the others are now running out of food as when locke destoryed the flame computer he also destroyed the others ability to call in a supply drop. This was the reason for the code 77 if the hostiles ever took over the station their food supply would be cut off.
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