Author Topic: Did Desmond lie to Charlie?  (Read 4711 times)

Offline golfstrom

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Did Desmond lie to Charlie?
« on: May 04, 2008, 06:13:54 AM »
Hi,

Since the episode in which we learn that Kate took care of Aaron, we know for sure that Claire didn't leave the island. There was some speculation going on about what happened to her, whether she fell from the helicopter and whether that made Jack feel guilty.

Now we know that Claire disappeared in the jungle, some of us think she might be dead. But if so, if Claire never made it to the helicopter, do you think that Des lied to Charlie, when he told him he had seen Claire and Aaron going off the island?

Offline LostinLock

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Re: Did Desmond lie to Charlie?
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2008, 07:14:16 AM »
No he didn't lie to Charlie.  He was a good diplomat on some of his "predictions" but I don't believe he lied.
If you recall he saw Charlie dying in various situations, but they changed with interference.

Now what we all are focusing in on is Claire getting on the helicopter.   That might have changed and Desmond may not be the person effecting that change, but there is change.

I don't believe that Jack has guilt.  If he found out on the island that he had a sister, do you (not you personally) think that he is happy?  His father was leading a double life and well, just take that and run that through your own mind and see how you might feel.

Since Charlie had died funny how Desmond didn't have any more psychic readings. 

I know most parents would not leave their children behind.  But putting real life aside, as we have had to with this show, if Jin is willing to let his wife and child go, we know why.  Why wouldn't Claire let Aaron go if it meant his life?  It is not always design by choice but her choice may be for the ultimate reason of hislife and how he must survive. 

So again to answer your question no I don't believe he LIED to him. 

Offline LostAndSeek

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Re: Did Desmond lie to Charlie?
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2008, 09:18:56 AM »
Welcome, Golf!

I don't think Des lied, but as LiL says, there could have been change. We'll see!

Offline golfstrom

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Re: Did Desmond lie to Charlie?
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2008, 09:19:26 AM »
"A good diplomat" is quite a phrase. I would say he pushed Charlie's luck rather hard, when he thought that it was actually Penny who was comming to the island. Granted, he did come to Charlie's rescue and he's not a person who would easily sacrifice somebody else's life just to achieve his won goal. But still we saw him being desperate and talking Hurley, Jin and Charlie into this quest. They didn't even know exactly what they signed up for.

On the other hand I see Des as a sincere chap, so I would be much disappointed if he just made it up. So I'm happy you think he didn't lie :)

> Since Charlie had died funny how Desmond didn't have any more psychic readings.
Ah, but he has finally patched up his time/space continuum, hasn't he?

> I don't believe that Jack has guilt.  If he found out on the island that he had a sister, do you (not you personally) think that he is happy?  His father
> was leading a double life and well, just take that and run that through your own mind and see how you might feel.

One thing I don't understand is how Jack, a man of virtue, can take it up on a baby? If he somehow finds out that Aaron is his nephew, whether on or off the island, why would that be a reason for such a disdain? Jack is a man who usually gives people second, third or fourth chances (unless it's his father...). And suddenly there's that SOB when he tripps over an Aaron's toy. That is even more strange when you remember that Jack knew Claire and Aaron, they were not anonymous second family of his father. He knew them before he found out they were related, which in my opinion should help him get over the fact.

> I know most parents would not leave their children behind.  But putting real life aside, as we have had to with this show, if Jin is willing to let his wife and  
> child go, we know why.  Why wouldn't Claire let Aaron go if it meant his life?  It is not always design by choice but her choice may be for the ultimate
> reason of hislife and how he must survive.

Whether the fortuneteller had meant "another" or "an Other", Claire believed that she herself should raise her child. If it was up to her, I believe she wouldn't have abandon Aaron. She would either go or stay but always with him. There is obviously something more to the fact that she went with Christian and I think she was made to leave Aaron behind.


Offline LostAndSeek

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Re: Did Desmond lie to Charlie?
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2008, 09:24:46 AM »
And suddenly there's that SOB when he tripps over an Aaron's toy. That is even more strange when you remember that Jack knew Claire and Aaron, they were not anonymous second family of his father. He knew them before he found out they were related, which in my opinion should help him get over the fact.


I wouldn't make too much of this. Jack's a neat freak. He picks up Kate's underwear right before this. And he's clearly growing to love Aaron.

Offline LostinLock

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Re: Did Desmond lie to Charlie?
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2008, 11:58:05 AM »


> Since Charlie had died funny how Desmond didn't have any more psychic readings.
Ah, but he has finally patched up his time/space continuum, hasn't he?

I didn't think that those were related.  He started having the flashes right after the implode of the hatch.  I remember his time travel with Mrs. Hawking, but I didn't think they were both the same.  But that could explain why.

> ...... There is obviously something more to the fact that she went with Christian and I think she was made to leave Aaron behind.



I have been saying this all along.  Ergo the great debate of a parent letting their child go.  As this is a tv show I am going on a limb and say she would based on something that has to do with his survival the island and those who remain/live etc on the island.

Thus here goes the slams of parents that this would never happen.  Yes I would agree in a real life situation, but this is LOST and Claire may have seen or heard why she must do this.

Non the less it is done, bring the slings and arrows  ;D

Mother and son will be reunited IMHO

Offline PrincessLeia

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Re: Did Desmond lie to Charlie?
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2008, 03:17:05 PM »
I'll answer this question after I see Claire dying before making it onto a helicopter. ;)  I'm keeping hope alive that Des's vision WILL be fulfilled.



And suddenly there's that SOB when he tripps over an Aaron's toy. That is even more strange when you remember that Jack knew Claire and Aaron, they were not anonymous second family of his father. He knew them before he found out they were related, which in my opinion should help him get over the fact.
Do you have kids?  Have you ever stepped on a Hot Wheel, a Lego, or jacks?  My mouth is squeaky clean, but **** it hurts. :D

Offline golfstrom

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Re: Did Desmond lie to Charlie?
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2008, 03:20:30 PM »
> Yes I would agree in a real life situation, but this is LOST and Claire may have seen or heard why she must do this.

You know, if that's the kind of free decision "damn if you do, damn if you don't" then I still think she was made to do that, even if she says "OK, I agree".

BTW. I've never judged Claire after I've learnt that Kate took care of Aaron, even though I don't much like Claire. However, as a new mother I find scenes when Aaron is in danger very difficult to watch! It wasn't like that when I was pregnant!

Offline golfstrom

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Re: Did Desmond lie to Charlie?
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2008, 03:42:18 PM »
@ Leia and LostAndSeek

I guess you are right - it's just that on the island Jack doesn't lose his temper that easily over nothing... Well, almost nothing ;)
My kid is too tiny to be interested in Millennium Falcon and other sharp objects. However he's got a picture with Lord Vader :)

Offline LostinLock

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Re: Did Desmond lie to Charlie?
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2008, 03:43:15 PM »
> Yes I would agree in a real life situation, but this is LOST and Claire may have seen or heard why she must do this.

You know, if that's the kind of free decision "damn if you do, damn if you don't" then I still think she was made to do that, even if she says "OK, I agree".I believe we are in agreement here

BTW. I've never judged Claire after I've learnt that Kate took care of Aaron, even though I don't much like Claire. However, as a new mother I find scenes when Aaron is in danger very difficult to watch! It wasn't like that when I was pregnant!
I didn't get the impression you did judge Claire. I was referring to other threads where we have been discussing Claire and the fact she may have had to let Aaron go.  All I am trying to say is yes, there is not a doubt in my mind that in any real life situation one would let there child just go.  Because this is LOST it has compelled us to think outside the box.  

In the situation with Claire it is easier for the audience to have her die.  This makes the transfer of Aaron to Kate easier.  It is more difficult for the audience to see this young Mother give her only child over to basically a stranger, even though they have lived together for what four months.  Is is even harder for us to conceive the notion of her willingly to give Aaron to Kate after we have seen her with Aaron.

The only other reason that I can see the writers doing is Claire having a case of amnesia or her head trauma, she has been complaining about double vision etc. have cause a lapse in memory and she gives her son to Kate.  Not so far fetched but that would be another reason.


Offline PrincessLeia

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Re: Did Desmond lie to Charlie?
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2008, 03:46:30 PM »
BTW. I've never judged Claire after I've learnt that Kate took care of Aaron, even though I don't much like Claire. However, as a new mother I find scenes when Aaron is in danger very difficult to watch! It wasn't like that when I was pregnant!
Even seeing Hurley put Aaron in the laundry basket on the bed last week had me flipping my lid! lol

btw- welcome to the boards (& to the mom club). :)

Offline golfstrom

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Re: Did Desmond lie to Charlie?
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2008, 04:06:58 PM »
@ LostInLock

I was merely expressing my surprise that I did not judge her :) I didn't feel attacked ;)
I suppose one more reason why I don't think Claire let Aaron go just like that is her devotion. She really loves that child  - she wouldn't give it to anyone just because she wanted to free herself from the burden, like she originally planned.

@Leia
I couldn't resist any longer. Ever time I watch a new episode I have a dream at night that I'm on the island or that I'm in a survival group :) Spooky

Offline LostinLock

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Re: Did Desmond lie to Charlie?
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2008, 04:15:20 PM »
@ LostInLock

I was merely expressing my surprise that I did not judge her :) I didn't feel attacked ;)
I suppose one more reason why I don't think Claire let Aaron go just like that is her devotion. She really loves that child  - she wouldn't give it to anyone just because she wanted to free herself from the burden, like she originally planned.


Yep I was in agreement ...guess my writing skills are going down hill ;) 

I don't believe the audience would buy into her giving him up for the sake of giving him up.  If tptb did that they might have to hide from Smokey >:(

Offline opgelost

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Re: Did Desmond lie to Charlie?
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2008, 07:02:02 AM »
Quote
But if so, if Claire never made it to the helicopter, do you think that Des lied to Charlie, when he told him he had seen Claire and Aaron going off the island?

I remember that Des said that his visions were just flashes and only came true if he didn't tell them and followed them exactly.
The moment he told what he saw to someone he was changing the outcome. Or something like that.
So maybe he saw Claire getting on the helicopter, but by telling Charlie he changed the future.

Desmond was also sure that the person with the parachute was Penny, but it was Naomi.

I don't think he lied, he saw it, but it changed. If it was important for Claire to leave, the universe will coursecorrect it some way.