Author Topic: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today  (Read 12556 times)

Offline SQUIRT199

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #60 on: April 25, 2008, 05:26:23 PM »
Where are you people getting the idea that he time traveled or teleported.  It looked to me like any other flash forward.  I saw no evidence of time travel in this episode.  The only thing we don't know is how he got in the middle of the desert but we don't have any evidence of time travel yet.  You all just seem so sure that this episode proved time travel but I didn't see that proven.  I'm not trying to start a debate and I'm not anti time travel either, I'm just wondering what is suddenly making everyone so sure.  It just looked like a flash forward.


Why would Ben ask what YEAR it was if there was not time  travel. I"m pretty sure that is  what the writers are indicating by that statement.

I think he asked her "2005?" when she told him the date.  To me, this means he did not know what year he had teleported to.

I see way too many holes in this whole time travel theory. I think that there is some form of teleportation going on, but absolutely not time travel. Just think about it... if your time travel 'machine' (whatever it is, at the Orchid, who knows? whatever it is) is soooo inaccurate that a) you don't know where you're going to end up and b) you don't know when you're going to get there, who in their right mind would use it? You're basically using it to get you to an unknown place at an unknown time... whats the point? That's not going to accomplish anything.

I believe that Ben dropped that line about 2005 simply to clue us, the viewers, in. Yes, we know it's after they got off the island, and yes we find out that it's right before Sayid started to work for Ben... but other than the line about 2005, we have NO time reference. Not even in the Sayid episode (4-4, The Economist) there isn't really a time frame given. It could have been 10 years from now, for all we know. The girl in it (name?) even mentions how her boss is a little old fashioned, or something to that extent, which explained the out of date pager that she used...

So, I'm still on the anti-time travel wagon, it's going to take something a LOT more solid than that to convince me.


Sayid said something about 8 years looking for his true love?

I was wondering the sigifigance their,  if its 2005, he has been looking for Nadia since 1997?

the war and her escape with Sayids help was back in 91 or 92 no?

Anyone think anything to this? I dont even know what I am getting at here.

Offline SQUIRT199

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #61 on: April 25, 2008, 05:27:59 PM »
I just wanted to make a very small point about what "Darlton" said about dead doc
They said not to worry to much about "who" it is but  rather "when" it is...as far as the body was concerned
This leads me to beleive that once again they are showing us that something weird is going on with time. (duh)
Faraday also says AGAIN that time is  ummmm relevant.

My opinion about Ben is that he is teleporting or somehow has a double ending up on the other end of the wormhole  (I don't really buy the double thing but who knows...)

But then again...I also think that the sequence of events that they showed us could be misleading
For example it "appears" that Ben walks into the secret room and ends up in the dessert in Tunisia.
I'm guessing that the two events may not be related, but just a sequence made to throw us off. (They did that in Jin Yeon as well)
On the other hand, he steps into the secret room and all of his "travel stuff" is in there....so....

ok that was my two cents  :P


Relative was the term used,  I believe (semantics)

Offline Maxor127

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #62 on: April 25, 2008, 06:09:59 PM »
There's a big difference between time travel and teleportation.  I don't think Ben can time travel, I think he can just teleport.  I could be wrong, but there was nothing to prove or even support any time travel theories.  The producers made the rules of time travel clear.  That only consciousnesses can time travel and that you can't change the future.  I think they're going to stick to those rules.

Offline LostGirlDeb

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #63 on: April 25, 2008, 06:16:02 PM »
I just wanted to make a very small point about what "Darlton" said about dead doc
They said not to worry to much about "who" it is but  rather "when" it is...as far as the body was concerned
This leads me to beleive that once again they are showing us that something weird is going on with time. (duh)
Faraday also says AGAIN that time is ummmm relevant.

My opinion about Ben is that he is teleporting or somehow has a double ending up on the other end of the wormhole  (I don't really buy the double thing but who knows...)

But then again...I also think that the sequence of events that they showed us could be misleading
For example it "appears" that Ben walks into the secret room and ends up in the dessert in Tunisia.
I'm guessing that the two events may not be related, but just a sequence made to throw us off. (They did that in Jin Yeon as well)
On the other hand, he steps into the secret room and all of his "travel stuff" is in there....so....

ok that was my two cents  :P


Relative was the term used,  I believe (semantics)

LOL yes and thanks (sorry)...I knew that!! I did it on purpose to see if you would catch it. ;)
I was wondering why it wasn't sounding right to me LOL 

Offline Staggerlee

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #64 on: April 25, 2008, 08:15:40 PM »
There's a big difference between time travel and teleportation.  I don't think Ben can time travel, I think he can just teleport.  I could be wrong, but there was nothing to prove or even support any time travel theories.  The producers made the rules of time travel clear.  That only consciousnesses can time travel and that you can't change the future.  I think they're going to stick to those rules.


This dead horse is gettin' it's beating today...

They did say they were not averse to time "bending"....take it as we may
There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion.

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Offline LostAndSeek

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #65 on: April 25, 2008, 10:22:04 PM »
My best guess (and I'm just agreeing with others who have said similar things).

Ben teleported to Tunisia. A side effect of teleportation is, or can be, time travel. They can't control the side effect. So he's not sure what date he arrives and has to ask.

He didn't teleport from the secret room, at least not in yesterday's episode. He just went in to invoke Smokie. (Can't believe I used "just" in that context). More likely he teleports from the Orchid station sometime later.

As for the parka, somebody suggested that maybe the teleportation equipment has to be really cold. Alternatively maybe there are bugs in the teleportation properties as well. Like you could end up in any number of fixed locations. If one of them's cold (wasn't the Orchid video found in Norway?) then dress warmly. You can always remove the parka if you don't need it.

Offline T Mack

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #66 on: April 25, 2008, 11:45:09 PM »
I just wanted to make a very small point about what "Darlton" said about dead doc
They said not to worry to much about "who" it is but  rather "when" it is...as far as the body was concerned
This leads me to believe that once again they are showing us that something weird is going on with time. (duh)
Faraday also says AGAIN that time is  ummmm relevant. relative

Time and the manipulation thereof, has been mentioned now COUNTLESS times in Lost by both the producers, the actors, in mobisodes, youtube videos and on the show itself.  I can't figure out what more needs to be said to convince people that don't believe.  It's almost like they just don't want to, so therefore they don't.  I'm not pushing the theory on anyone, but it's what I BELIEVE.  Just to be clear, I think teleportation would also be a very cool avenue for the show to explore, and I would love to see how they pull that off.

I  just don't get how it's so believable to some that a dude could "teleport" himself to another place and time, but he couldn't time travel there...how is one more believable than another?  They are both far out and impossible to do as we know it, so they are both skirting the boundaries of realism by introducing either on the show.  Have you or one of your friends ever 'teleported' over to the local movie theater or to New York City for the evening?

Maybe we can all just agree that time is being manipulated, and clearly Ben has found a way of mastering this through time travel, teleportation, or some other means.

Offline Lion of Atreides

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #67 on: April 26, 2008, 12:35:50 AM »
TPTB have said emphatically in interviews, and it makes perfect sense from having suffered through so many bad Star Trek time travel stories, that time travel opens up a can of worms.  Once the audience knows that the future can be changed, then nothing characters do in the present will have any meaning for us, the audience, as we know it could just be changed by a bit of time travel.

I'd come across in an interesting notion in a Star Trek novel.  Seven of Nine and Neelix end up in an alien spaceship that is a time travel ship. By accident they travel 50,000 years into the past.  The problem is, the aliens who built these time travel ships have carved up time into, like, 250,000 year blocks, and thus opened up travel between blocks of time, such that the number of people in their 'civilization' could number in the trillions, yet live on just one planet.  However, they had made it their number one crime to travel to a year within the same time block, as they've learned that it opens up the threat of paradox, and requires the intervention of their 'time police' to return things back to the original timeline. 

TPTB have surely absorbed many of these lessons from past sci fi, and I believe they're smart enough not to make time travel a reliable thing.  Where they seem to be going with it is that time travel is an aberration that is very, very BAD.  When done with one's consciousness, it gives you a nasty aneurysm, unless you've got that constant thingy working well.  When done with one's physical body, it apparently, according to the Orchid Video, opens up some cataclysmic potentiality. That Ben asked what the date was, and was relieved to find out he didn't time travel, shows that he was taking a risk in teleporting.  And it wasn't exactly fun, from the vomitus and disorientation he evinced upon waking up like a snow, er..., sand angel.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2008, 03:40:24 PM by Lion of Atreides »

Offline JBRam

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #68 on: April 26, 2008, 12:42:57 AM »
Not a bad thought at all, Lion.

Offline opgelost

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #69 on: April 26, 2008, 06:30:00 AM »
Ben said to Sayid: "Go away. Once you let your grieve become anger it will never go away. I speak of experience." I guess Ben was talking about Alex. If he travelled from december 2004 to october 2005, he wouldn't have had the time to let his grieve become anger and to plan to kill Charles' daughter out of revenge. That's why I think it is a flash forward and not time travel.
Maybe teleportation has the same side effects as leaving the island in the wrong direction and your consciousness could end up in the wrong time and Ben asked the date to be sure not to need to contact his constant.

Offline LostAndSeek

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #70 on: April 26, 2008, 10:08:15 AM »
It just hit me in another thread that the time dilation effect in leaving the Island might be exacerbated by teleportation. So perhaps Ben needs to ask the date because, though it's only been a few seconds to him, it may have been much longer in the world.

Opge, there's no reason to think Ben traveled from December, 2004, unless I missed something.

Offline fieldy32

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #71 on: April 26, 2008, 01:49:36 PM »
It just hit me in another thread that the time dilation effect in leaving the Island might be exacerbated by teleportation. So perhaps Ben needs to ask the date because, though it's only been a few seconds to him, it may have been much longer in the world.

Opge, there's no reason to think Ben traveled from December, 2004, unless I missed something.
Bingo! I think this is why Ben asked the date.  He teleported, and due to the "time bubble" that surrounds the island, he just wanted to double check that he hadn't "time traveled" instead.

Offline Writers_Strike

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #72 on: April 26, 2008, 03:02:18 PM »
The episode stared like Season 1 of Locke or Jacks episode, looking at him laying on the ground, a little dazed. So what if Ben was in a plane crash that was transporting dry ice to the refrigerators of the nomads in the desert. It has just as little evidence as Time travel, so that means it has merit right?

Offline Lion of Atreides

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #73 on: April 26, 2008, 03:48:15 PM »
It just hit me in another thread that the time dilation effect in leaving the Island might be exacerbated by teleportation.

Another great possibility.  Plus, it may be unclear, even to Ben, what the proper setting of the teleporter would be, if the implosion of the Swan did impact the time dilation between the island & the real world.

The episode stared like Season 1 of Locke or Jacks episode, looking at him laying on the ground, a little dazed. So what if Ben was in a plane crash that was transporting dry ice to the refrigerators of the nomads in the desert.

Nice comparison.  However, neither Locke nor Jack woke wearing Halliwax's coat from the Orchid Station.  And intrepid Ben himself was rather dazed from the teleport, which he wouldn't have been had he rode the slowboat to the desert like the polar bear.

Offline lostfan777

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #74 on: April 26, 2008, 09:55:25 PM »
I can't understand why this is such a huge debate.  They've made it clear that time can be affected when attempting to leave or approach the island and the Orchid video made it clear that they were doing experiments involving teleportation and that time can be affected during that process.  So why isn't it obvious that Ben teleported and needed to double check the time to make sure that he didn't screw something up?  Sounds simple enough to me! (Especially when you consider that we all must be out of our minds to be this involved in this discussion!  ;D )

On a side note, maybe Dr. Candle/ Halliwax or whatever his name is accidentally teleported his left arm somewhere!  I've gotten careless with power tools a couple of times myself and I know how quickly accidents can happen! Just ask the nice nurses at the ER!  :-[