Author Topic: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today  (Read 14855 times)

Offline Ladybug

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #45 on: April 25, 2008, 03:17:21 PM »
.... an another thing ... what happened to Ben's glasses, he doesn't need them anymore?
maybe he timewarped to the past and ate more carrots to help make his eyes healthy.

**actually, he's probably just farsighted, and only needs them when he reads.  and since not much reading has been going on lately, he's without the specs.

Offline Staggerlee

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #46 on: April 25, 2008, 03:19:42 PM »
good point squirt, lest it was one of Dharma's P bears, but point taken...


on the island...hmmm? them unanswered questions what's keeps us comin' back for more to the street corner that is Lost.....hehehehe ;D
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Offline SQUIRT199

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #47 on: April 25, 2008, 03:23:48 PM »
good point squirt, lest it was one of Dharma's P bears, but point taken...


on the island...hmmm? them unanswered questions what's keeps us comin' back for more to the street corner that is Lost.....hehehehe ;D

I think it was indeed one of Dharma polar bears, it did have the collar with a station emblme on it.

But I just dont think the teleportation/time machine is actually located in a cold climate but rather going throgh it at some point it gets cold, "Like back to the future", remember the car came back thru time covered in ice?

Offline fieldy32

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #48 on: April 25, 2008, 03:25:03 PM »
Where are you people getting the idea that he time traveled or teleported.  It looked to me like any other flash forward.  I saw no evidence of time travel in this episode.  The only thing we don't know is how he got in the middle of the desert but we don't have any evidence of time travel yet.  You all just seem so sure that this episode proved time travel but I didn't see that proven.  I'm not trying to start a debate and I'm not anti time travel either, I'm just wondering what is suddenly making everyone so sure.  It just looked like a flash forward.

Ben opened his eyes, teeth chattering, gasped for air, lying in the middle of the desert in an arctic coat, sat up, disoriented, and puked. I think that's what suggests teleportation. Then the fact the he asked what year it was suggests time travel. It COULD all be a clever illusion though.
It was December, 2004 on the island when we were watching our episode.  It was October 2005 when Ben was shown in Tunisia at the hotel counter.  Either it was a clever ruse to disguise forward time travel, or they conveniently left out and entire year and just moved the storyline to 2005.  This is very confusing to average viewers IMO.  They seem to be tapdancing around the idea of time travel.

We are nibbling around the edges, and I want to take a big bite out of it.
There was definitely teleportation that happened in this episode... time travel is still a maybe, but definitely possible. As for the December 2004/October 2005 thing, that was just because it was a flashforward. Simple as that. This was definitely an awesome episode tho.

Offline Shoeless

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #49 on: April 25, 2008, 03:26:54 PM »
maybe he timewarped to the past and ate more carrots to help make his eyes healthy.

 ;D  ;D  ;D  :-*

Offline JBRam

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #50 on: April 25, 2008, 03:32:53 PM »
Where are you people getting the idea that he time traveled or teleported.  It looked to me like any other flash forward.  I saw no evidence of time travel in this episode.  The only thing we don't know is how he got in the middle of the desert but we don't have any evidence of time travel yet.  You all just seem so sure that this episode proved time travel but I didn't see that proven.  I'm not trying to start a debate and I'm not anti time travel either, I'm just wondering what is suddenly making everyone so sure.  It just looked like a flash forward.

Ben opened his eyes, teeth chattering, gasped for air, lying in the middle of the desert in an arctic coat, sat up, disoriented, and puked. I think that's what suggests teleportation. Then the fact the he asked what year it was suggests time travel. It COULD all be a clever illusion though.
It was December, 2004 on the island when we were watching our episode.  It was October 2005 when Ben was shown in Tunisia at the hotel counter.  Either it was a clever ruse to disguise forward time travel, or they conveniently left out and entire year and just moved the storyline to 2005.  This is very confusing to average viewers IMO.  They seem to be tapdancing around the idea of time travel.

We are nibbling around the edges, and I want to take a big bite out of it.
We've seen flashforwards many times this season already and in the last episode of S3.

No one would ask what year it is -- especially to a stranger -- unless they were unsure themselves. And to say the writers did it "for our benefit" makes no sense. If they wanted us to know what year it was, the worst thing to do on THIS show is to have a character ASK what year it is.

In shows and movies, to tell JUST THE VIEWERS what date it is, they often just put a crawl/subtitle on the screen: "Tunisia, October 2005."

Having Ben ask what date and then year it is was supposed to be significant. It was SUPPOSED to give us INFORMATION about SOME aspect of the show. If it's not time-travel of some variety, why else would he ask?

I agree. To say it is for our benefit is denial.
.... an another thing ... what happened to Ben's glasses, he doesn't need them anymore?
He only needed them for reading before.

Offline Fallybear

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #51 on: April 25, 2008, 03:34:00 PM »
Where are you people getting the idea that he time traveled or teleported.  It looked to me like any other flash forward.  I saw no evidence of time travel in this episode.  The only thing we don't know is how he got in the middle of the desert but we don't have any evidence of time travel yet.  You all just seem so sure that this episode proved time travel but I didn't see that proven.  I'm not trying to start a debate and I'm not anti time travel either, I'm just wondering what is suddenly making everyone so sure.  It just looked like a flash forward.

Ben opened his eyes, teeth chattering, gasped for air, lying in the middle of the desert in an arctic coat, sat up, disoriented, and puked. I think that's what suggests teleportation. Then the fact the he asked what year it was suggests time travel. It COULD all be a clever illusion though.
It was December, 2004 on the island when we were watching our episode.  It was October 2005 when Ben was shown in Tunisia at the hotel counter.  Either it was a clever ruse to disguise forward time travel, or they conveniently left out and entire year and just moved the storyline to 2005.  This is very confusing to average viewers IMO.  They seem to be tapdancing around the idea of time travel.

We are nibbling around the edges, and I want to take a big bite out of it.
There was definitely teleportation that happened in this episode... time travel is still a maybe, but definitely possible. As for the December 2004/October 2005 thing, that was just because it was a flashforward. Simple as that. This was definitely an awesome episode tho.

Fieldy....I hate to say the same thing again BUT...if it was just a flashforward, why is Ben unsure of the year. He clearly asks the hotel clerk "2005?"  
In all the other flashforwards, the characters know what year they are in.

Offline Staggerlee

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #52 on: April 25, 2008, 03:41:30 PM »
tis the crux right there Fally. I agree.
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Offline jugdish

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #53 on: April 25, 2008, 03:52:42 PM »
Quote
Not time travel but teleportation. There is a big difference. He used the orchid station to do it. He is not going to the future and coming back and changing events. There is zero evidence of that happening.
This is just semantics.  He traveled from one location to another.  It can't be at the exact same time, or there would be 2 of him (a twin or duplicate), so if it's one second later or 15 minutes, earlier, he's time traveling. When I drive my car to go somewhere, I do not get there instantly. Traveling time does not mean Time traveling, HUGE DIFFERENCE
Quote

The doctor is dead and the boat people lied about it.
This is pure speculation by you, and just as you say there is "zero evidence" for my theory, there is indeed zero evidence for yours as well.  You say trust the simplest theory, the simplest was one that was shown to us, i.e., the doctor is not dead on the boat, but he's dead on the beach. A guy being alive at the same time his dead body is washing ashore is not the simplist answer. I know I have no evidence for this, but it is what I believe and what makes sense to me.

Quote
Ben went to the cave to get smokie not to travel to the desert. Even Sayid asked him when he got off the island.  Sayid knows he left him on the island, sometime in early 2005
I didn't say Ben went to "the cave" to travel.  But certainly he is using some way to get on and off, whether it's inside the special room or from some other bunker or station.  Interesting that Ben didn't know what "time" he had ended up in at Tunisia, so if he didn't know, then he obviously doesn't have as much control over it as you would think. 

I never said how much control he had over it. All I have said so far is that teleportation (if that is what he did) looks like a rough ride.

Quote
Jumping many logic steps to push a theory you believe in. Most times the simple answer is the best answer.
You have assumed several steps also my friend, it seems to me that you allow yourself to do this to push your own theory, but don't allow others the same freedom.

I am not stopping you, just pointed something out. I saw evidence of teleportation, but non yet of time traveling. That is how I see it.
Quote
It may be semantics, but it is not time traveling to the future or past and back.
As you wish.


I may very well be wrong, but this how I see it now. I can only call it as I see it.

Offline Staggerlee

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #54 on: April 25, 2008, 04:04:45 PM »
"It may be semantics, but it is not time traveling to the future or past and back."

if you  follow a linear construct, yes...

Australian* Aborigines have circular time beliefs...



"Australia is key..."
There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion.

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Offline Shoeless

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #55 on: April 25, 2008, 04:26:55 PM »
"It may be semantics, but it is not time traveling to the future or past and back."

if you  follow a linear construct, yes...

Australian* Aborigines have circular time beliefs...



"Australia is key..."
*teleported from another thread; stuffing as many marshmallows as I can in my mouth so I don't implode*   (((Stag)))   ;)

Edit: *chews & swallows* am in right thread  :o  *heads back to beach & continues search for shoes*  :-[

« Last Edit: April 25, 2008, 04:29:46 PM by Shoeless »

Offline lostfan777

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #56 on: April 25, 2008, 04:30:35 PM »
Alright, forget I mentioned the 'for our benefit' comment, that was absurd.  I do think they haven't got the bugs worked out at the Orchid station yet and he needed to double check the time.  My opinion, final answer (for now!).

Offline KateReallyLovesJack

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #57 on: April 25, 2008, 04:30:51 PM »
Where are you people getting the idea that he time traveled or teleported.  It looked to me like any other flash forward.  I saw no evidence of time travel in this episode.  The only thing we don't know is how he got in the middle of the desert but we don't have any evidence of time travel yet.  You all just seem so sure that this episode proved time travel but I didn't see that proven.  I'm not trying to start a debate and I'm not anti time travel either, I'm just wondering what is suddenly making everyone so sure.  It just looked like a flash forward.


Why would Ben ask what YEAR it was if there was not time  travel. I"m pretty sure that is  what the writers are indicating by that statement.

I think he asked her "2005?" when she told him the date.  To me, this means he did not know what year he had teleported to.

I see way too many holes in this whole time travel theory. I think that there is some form of teleportation going on, but absolutely not time travel. Just think about it... if your time travel 'machine' (whatever it is, at the Orchid, who knows? whatever it is) is soooo inaccurate that a) you don't know where you're going to end up and b) you don't know when you're going to get there, who in their right mind would use it? You're basically using it to get you to an unknown place at an unknown time... whats the point? That's not going to accomplish anything.

I believe that Ben dropped that line about 2005 simply to clue us, the viewers, in. Yes, we know it's after they got off the island, and yes we find out that it's right before Sayid started to work for Ben... but other than the line about 2005, we have NO time reference. Not even in the Sayid episode (4-4, The Economist) there isn't really a time frame given. It could have been 10 years from now, for all we know. The girl in it (name?) even mentions how her boss is a little old fashioned, or something to that extent, which explained the out of date pager that she used...

So, I'm still on the anti-time travel wagon, it's going to take something a LOT more solid than that to convince me.

Offline Staggerlee

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #58 on: April 25, 2008, 04:33:00 PM »
"It may be semantics, but it is not time traveling to the future or past and back."

if you  follow a linear construct, yes...

Australian* Aborigines have circular time beliefs...



"Australia is key..."
*teleported from another thread; stuffing as many marshmallows as I can in my mouth so I don't implode*   (((Stag)))   ;)

Edit: *chews & swallows* am in right thread  :o  *heads back to beach & continues search for shoes*  :-[



find my spats will ya ?

not widely known, but m'mallows were the first successfully teleported objects, they're spongy! (twinkies get squished :'()...next came bunnies....they lifted them from a cosmetics lab... ;D
There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion.

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Offline LostGirlDeb

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #59 on: April 25, 2008, 05:05:50 PM »
I just wanted to make a very small point about what "Darlton" said about dead doc
They said not to worry to much about "who" it is but  rather "when" it is...as far as the body was concerned
This leads me to beleive that once again they are showing us that something weird is going on with time. (duh)
Faraday also says AGAIN that time is  ummmm relevant. relative

My opinion about Ben is that he is teleporting or somehow has a double ending up on the other end of the wormhole  (I don't really buy the double thing but who knows...)

But then again...I also think that the sequence of events that they showed us could be misleading
For example it "appears" that Ben walks into the secret room and ends up in the dessert in Tunisia.
I'm guessing that the two events may not be related, but just a sequence made to throw us off. (They did that in Jin Yeon as well)
On the other hand, he steps into the secret room and all of his "travel stuff" is in there....so....

ok that was my two cents  :P
« Last Edit: April 25, 2008, 06:17:05 PM by LostGirlDeb »