Author Topic: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today  (Read 12488 times)

Offline T Mack

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All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« on: April 25, 2008, 11:36:59 AM »
The no time travel brigade on this board must be shucking and jiving all over the place today trying to explain last nights episode, which was awesome, and it showed what I've believed to be all along:

-Ben uses time travel to affect current and future events to his own ends.  It's the ultimate power high- to be able to change events- but how can he do it if the Universe always course corrects? Is it a temporary solution until the Universe gets it right- buying Ben some more time?  Or is the Universe not as smart as it thinks it is, and Ben can outsmart it with his time hopping? (meaning, he's the only one who has this ability?)
-It's 'good night, Irene' for the "there is no time travel on Lost" contingent.  They'll have to come up with another explanation, even the "mind time travel only" theory was debunked last night.
-Ben CLEARLY time traveled from the island to the Sahara desert in 2005.  They SHOWED YOU, and he verified the dates, so there should be no more denying and debating on this.  (no, he did not take a boat and a plane from Fiji  :D) It's amazing what people will still believe, (or not) even when they've been shown directly something that is happening. 
-Ben DID NOT mind travel, he body traveled.  If he only "mind traveled", why then the Sahara? Why would he choose that and not Tunisia or Iraq, where he ended up to do his dirty work?  He time traveled, and got his body as close to where he needed to be as he could.  They clearly do not have so much control over the time travel that they can get it exactly right, but close to the intended destination.
-Ben was wearing an Arctic style DHARMA jacket, if he knew he was going to mind travel to the desert, he wouldn't need that jacket, and if he knew exactly where he was going to end up, he wouldn't have worn it.  Clearly something happens during time travel where a cold weather jacket is needed.
-Since the reason for Ben's traveling to Iraq or Tunisia was to meet Sayid and possibly try to change events, there was no mind traveling that would make sense.  Desmond 'mind traveled' back to his flat in London where Penny was, but that was his connection to another timeline.  Ben has no connection here, other than to try to change events in the future that will affect the present, or change events in the past that will affect the present. There is no other explanation.
-There ARE multiple timelines in this show, just accept it. The timelines may not be months or even years off, they may be days difference, but there are multiple timelines.  The doctor is DEAD with his throat slit on the beach, but he is also alive on the freighter.  How can that be?  I still believe that the Oceanic 815 at the bottom of the trench COULD BE (and I stress could be) another version of the 815 that went through a time warp and duplicated itself.  I think the writers are playing with us on this idea, and they feel like they can go either way with it, depending on what the audience will accept.  It could be a setup by Widmore, or it even could be- GASP! - another version of the plane.  This would explain the tortured version of Jack, Hurley and Sayid ("we have to go back") in 2005, realizing that they are supposed to be dead and that somehow they are not synched with the rest of the Universe, a Universe that wants them, (and has fated them)to their deaths on Oceanic 815 in 2004.

All in all a fantastic episode and one which IMO sets up things in such a way that the denial theorists must play nicely in the sandbox or take their toys and go home to pout. ;D

« Last Edit: April 25, 2008, 12:17:47 PM by T Mack »

Offline opgelost

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2008, 11:55:52 AM »
Quote
Ben CLEARLY time traveled from the island in 2004 to the Sahara desert in 2005.
?? I thought he travelled from the island on 24 october 2005 to the Sahara on 24 october 2005, just a flash froward, like all the others.

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Ben DID NOT mind travel, he body traveled.
Teleportation not time travel.

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Since he had never been to Iraq or the Tunisia before
?? He was a preferred guest in the hotel. His name was in the books.
I think he was teleported to that spot in the Sahara many times before and maybe
he has his own room in that hotel.

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The doctor is DEAD with his throat slit on the beach, but he is also alive on the freighter.
And he has weird stitches on his face, where there first was nothing and later a healed cut. I think he travels like Desmond did.

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I still believe that the Oceanic 815 at the bottom of the trench COULD BE (and I stress could be) another version of the 815 that went through a time warp and duplicated itself.
I believe it is the 815 that duplicated itself like the bunny in the orchid. But not by traveling through time.





Offline lostfan777

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2008, 11:57:46 AM »
-Ben CLEARLY time traveled from the island in 2004 to the Sahara desert in 2005.  They SHOWED YOU, and he verified the dates, so there should be no more denying and debating on this. 

I'm not here to debate your entire post, but I wanted to comment on this part.  It was MY impression that the opening scene was a flash forward.  It had nothing to do with the compound being under attack in 2004 other than his warning to Widmore that he would kill Penny to avenge Alex.  But that isn't why he went into his secret room.  He went to somehow summon Smokie.  The desert scenes are in the future (after the O6 go home) and Ben appears to have teleported, probably from the Orchid station (because he is wearing the Halliwax parka) or he may have made other stops along the way that we haven't been shown yet (that would require a parka).  But from the attack in 2004 to the desert in 2005, I don't think so.  I think you may have misunderstood the inference.

With that said, I'm not saying you're wrong about the time travel theory itself, other than that the producers have said it will be mind travel only.  But who knows, I trust them as much as I would trust Ben.

Offline Fallybear

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2008, 12:00:53 PM »
Well stated TMack. The anti time travel people are quiet today..  I wish Puff was still here. He would body slam people with this info

Puffy.... if you're lurking, come on back!!!
« Last Edit: April 25, 2008, 12:02:42 PM by Fallybear »

Offline T Mack

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2008, 12:02:52 PM »
Could be different times, I'm not debating that...because we haven't been given enough info to suggest it was from 2005 to 2005 or what year he came from...but my larger point was that he "teleported" as you say, I say time traveled but at this point it's just terminology, use whatever term you want.

Offline T Mack

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2008, 12:09:02 PM »
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?? I thought he traveled from the island on 24 october 2005 to the Sahara on 24 october 2005, just a flash froward, like all the others. 
Ummm...that wouldn't be a flash forward, it would be a flash present.

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Ben DID NOT mind travel, he body traveled.
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Teleportation not time travel.

As you wish.

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Since he had never been to Iraq or the Tunisia before
Quote
?? He was a preferred guest in the hotel. His name was in the books.
I think he was teleported to that spot in the Sahara many times before and maybe
he has his own room in that hotel.
  You are correct about that, but what I was trying to say was he had no 'constant' or other mind travel connection to that area.  He went there because of Sayid, and trying to "out course correct" (i.e., outwit) the Universe
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The doctor is DEAD with his throat slit on the beach, but he is also alive on the freighter.
Quote
And he has weird stitches on his face, where there first was nothing and later a healed cut. I think he travels like Desmond did.
No, his body is in two places at once, this is physically impossible unless you are duplicated in two timelines somehow, someway.  I don't know the answer to this but it is what the show is telling us.

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I still believe that the Oceanic 815 at the bottom of the trench COULD BE (and I stress could be) another version of the 815 that went through a time warp and duplicated itself.
Quote
I believe it is the 815 that duplicated itself like the bunny in the orchid. But not by traveling through time.
There would be no other way to do it.

Offline T Mack

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2008, 12:10:21 PM »
Well stated TMack. The anti time travel people are quiet today..  I wish Puff was still here. He would body slam people with this info

Puffy.... if you're lurking, come on back!!!
Oh, he's here.  No worries, just under an assumed name! ;>)  He's time traveling on the boards.

Offline The Boy

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2008, 12:27:04 PM »
What is the explaination behind the bullet wound in Ben's right arm when he teleports to the desert?  Anybody?

Offline jugdish

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2008, 12:28:08 PM »
Not time travel but teleportation. There is a big difference. He used the orchid station to do it. He is not going to the future and coming back and changing events. There is zero evidence of that happening.

The doctor is dead and the boat people lied about it.

Ben went to the cave to get smokie not to travel to the desert.Even Sayid asked him when he got off the island.  Sayid knows he left him on the island, sometime in early 2005

WHo said it was a bullet wound, all we know is he is hurt.

Jumping many logic steps to push a theory you believe in. Most times the simple answer is the best answer.

It may be semantics, but it is not timetraveling to the future or past and back.

Offline Fallybear

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2008, 12:38:32 PM »
Not time travel but teleportation. There is a big difference. He used the orchid station to do it. He is not going to the future and coming back and changing events. There is zero evidence of that happening.

The doctor is dead and the boat people lied about it.

Ben went to the cave to get smokie not to travel to the desert.Even Sayid asked him when he got off the island.  Sayid knows he left him on the island, sometime in early 2005

WHo said it was a bullet wound, all we know is he is hurt.

Jumping many logic steps to push a theory you believe in. Most times the simple answer is the best answer.

It may be semantics, but it is not timetraveling to the future or past and back.


Jug...... why does Ben ask for the present date from the desk clerk? If he just teleported, wouldn't he know what year it was?

Offline jugdish

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2008, 12:43:01 PM »
Good question there.

I think it has to do with the problem with time and leaving the island. It was the time frame he thought it was. So he was not "lost in time". But there is time issues with leaving the island but it does not land you in the future, just like the helicopter leaving the island

Offline Ladybug

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2008, 12:43:30 PM »
Not time travel but teleportation. There is a big difference. He used the orchid station to do it. He is not going to the future and coming back and changing events. There is zero evidence of that happening.

The doctor is dead and the boat people lied about it.

Ben went to the cave to get smokie not to travel to the desert.Even Sayid asked him when he got off the island.  Sayid knows he left him on the island, sometime in early 2005

WHo said it was a bullet wound, all we know is he is hurt.

Jumping many logic steps to push a theory you believe in. Most times the simple answer is the best answer.

It may be semantics, but it is not timetraveling to the future or past and back.
thank you jug.  you read MY mind.  lol.

Offline lostfan777

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2008, 12:45:40 PM »
I believe he teleported from one place (that we haven't been shown yet, but somewhere that required Halliwax's parka from the Orchid) to another place at the same time.  He checked the date with the woman at the counter, but I think that was for our benefit so that we would know WHEN it was (a flash forward).  On the other hand, we haven't gotten to the Orchid station yet, so we don't yet know what the potential for time travel is or how much control they have over it.  They didn't seem to have total control over bunny #15, so maybe that's why Ben needed to double check the date.  But so far, we have yet to see someone physically leave a point in time and go forward or back, except during the actual travel through whatever barrier surrounds the island (the helicopter arrived a day or so after it left).  
On a similar note, I think this explains the Doc's body.  He will be alive on the ship until someone kills him and then his body will wash ashore after travelling through the warped time to arrive before he actually dies.

Offline JBRam

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2008, 12:48:48 PM »
Not time travel but teleportation. There is a big difference. He used the orchid station to do it. He is not going to the future and coming back and changing events. There is zero evidence of that happening.

The doctor is dead and the boat people lied about it.

Ben went to the cave to get smokie not to travel to the desert.Even Sayid asked him when he got off the island.  Sayid knows he left him on the island, sometime in early 2005

WHo said it was a bullet wound, all we know is he is hurt.

Jumping many logic steps to push a theory you believe in. Most times the simple answer is the best answer.

It may be semantics, but it is not timetraveling to the future or past and back.
Excellent rebuttal, Jug.

I'm also curious why he asked the year. This may suggest time travel, but I seriously hope not.

Again, teleportation is not equal to time travel.

Offline JBRam

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Re: All the anti- time travel theorists heads are spinning today
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2008, 12:50:30 PM »
I believe he teleported from one place (that we haven't been shown yet, but somewhere that required Halliwax's parka from the Orchid) to another place at the same time.  He checked the date with the woman at the counter, but I think that was for our benefit so that we would know WHEN it was (a flash forward).  On the other hand, we haven't gotten to the Orchid station yet, so we don't yet know what the potential for time travel is or how much control they have over it.  They didn't seem to have total control over bunny #15, so maybe that's why Ben needed to double check the date.  But so far, we have yet to see someone physically leave a point in time and go forward or back, except during the actual travel through whatever barrier surrounds the island (the helicopter arrived a day or so after it left). 
On a similar note, I think this explains the Doc's body.  He will be alive on the ship until someone kills him and then his body will wash ashore after travelling through the warped time to arrive before he actually dies.
I'm still thinking that the freighter people lied.

I agree that the teleportation thing has its bugs. I'm wondering if he brought the parka cause he wasn't sure where he'd end up.