Author Topic: Ben vs Widmore  (Read 13656 times)

Offline karatemama

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Re: Ben vs Widmore
« Reply #45 on: April 26, 2008, 11:46:48 AM »
i posted this in one of the other threads from another episode...but I had a feeling that Ben and Charles knew each other and possibly had worked together in the past...they,up until this week's episode, knew what the other would do in certain situations...it was predictable to them...now that the "rules have changed" i think anything goes...this episode shows that Ben is as manipulative as ever! He was able to convince Sayid that Charles Widmore had his wife killed...COME ON!!! I don't buy that for a minute! Not with that famous smirking Ben face as he walked away from Sayid!

Charles is going to have to sept up his game now!!!

Should be interesting!!!

Offline Lion of Atreides

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Re: Ben vs Widmore
« Reply #46 on: April 26, 2008, 05:20:49 PM »
i posted this in one of the other threads from another episode...but I had a feeling that Ben and Charles knew each other and possibly had worked together in the past...they,up until this week's episode, knew what the other would do in certain situations...it was predictable to them...

I think the consensus is that Widmore was in control of the island via Dharma up until the purge, when Ben took control. But recall that Ben at that time was just the son of a Work Man, and in Widmore's eyes, part of a lowly janitorial caste.  What's the likelihood that Ben had anything to do with bossman Widmore prior to the purge? Would Dharma have seen Ben's potential and given him a scholarship of sorts, sending him to study at the most prestigious Dharma labs around the world, perhaps to study at the feet of the great Charles Widmore himself?  Or would Ben have been relegated to a life of toil on the island, never fated to leave?

Offline deletia

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Re: Ben vs Widmore
« Reply #47 on: April 26, 2008, 05:25:29 PM »
Hi. First post here. Sorry if I'm missing something already posted.

Quick question: Wasn't there some Widmore paraphernalia--a pregnancy test maybe?--scavenged from the fuselage? I'd never thought much of it before, it just seemed like it was all part of the general conspiratorial backdrop. I thought maybe it came from someone associated with the Others. Now, though, it occurs to me that the Others were no longer Widmore affiliates, and if someone had Widmore stuff, that could indicate a spy in their midst. It could also indicate nothing but a coincidence.

So, who had the Widmore stuff, do we know?

Edited to add:
Quote
Would Dharma have seen Ben's potential and given him a scholarship of sorts, sending him to study at the most prestigious Dharma labs around the world, perhaps to study at the feet of the great Charles Widmore himself?

Intersting! Perhaps it was Ben's potential that got his parents a ticket to the island in the first place?
« Last Edit: April 26, 2008, 05:53:21 PM by deletia »

Offline LostinLock

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Re: Ben vs Widmore
« Reply #48 on: April 26, 2008, 06:32:47 PM »
Hi. First post here. Sorry if I'm missing something already posted.

Quick question: Wasn't there some Widmore paraphernalia--a pregnancy test maybe?--scavenged from the fuselage? I'd never thought much of it before, it just seemed like it was all part of the general conspiratorial backdrop. I thought maybe it came from someone associated with the Others. Now, though, it occurs to me that the Others were no longer Widmore affiliates, and if someone had Widmore stuff, that could indicate a spy in their midst. It could also indicate nothing but a coincidence.

So, who had the Widmore stuff, do we know?

Edited to add:
Quote
Would Dharma have seen Ben's potential and given him a scholarship of sorts, sending him to study at the most prestigious Dharma labs around the world, perhaps to study at the feet of the great Charles Widmore himself?

Intersting! Perhaps it was Ben's potential that got his parents a ticket to the island in the first place?

Welcome- No it was random items that had the Widmore branding on it.  We also saw in the episode where Desmond first time travels, the Widmore logo was on a building.  Again, one of the set ups to bring Widmore into the mix.

Interesting thought though if Ben gained control of the island when he removed the Dharma's, who was really in control of it previously. 

Hmmmmmm

Offline LostAndSeek

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Re: Ben vs Widmore
« Reply #49 on: April 26, 2008, 08:15:01 PM »
Welcome, Deletia!

Offline DIZZYBECKSTER

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Re: Ben vs Widmore
« Reply #50 on: April 28, 2008, 12:31:04 PM »
Quote
Did you notice that during Ben and Charles scene their faces were half dark and half light.

We only saw Ben's right half and Charles' left half. Like it were two halfs of one face.

like a good twin and a bad twin...?

I like Lion of Areides idea that they are each others constant....

Offline DIZZYBECKSTER

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Re: Ben vs Widmore
« Reply #51 on: April 28, 2008, 12:42:17 PM »
I guess the part I didn't understand was why, if Widmore is trying to claim that the island was his first, does he not know where the island is??  Maybe grew up on the island with Ben when they were little, was related or indirectly related to the people who started Dharma,  was taken off of the island for some reason before the purge, maybe lost family members, friends at the island during the purge, and has been trying all his life to get back there and find it.  Meanwhile, Ben, knowing the powers of the island and was the main executor of the purge, can get back and forth on and off the island and can keep in touch with Widmore whenever he wants to.  This infuriates Widmore and motivates him to do what he does.  But why??  Just kind of a short undetailed rough theory. 

mebbe....

Mebbe Widmore has 'bought' everything Hanso because he is obsessed... like a Star Wars collector having every version of r2d2 models, every book, every picture, the scripts, the directors used coffee cup, the rights to the stageplay etc etc. And as such believes that because he owns it all, understands everything about Hanso and the island's mysticism he therefore has the right to dictate how it is run. One down side is... he aint got a clue where it is...

He needs Ben. Ben understands the power of the island but resents the corporation which is manipulating it, but he's seen the eye of the island and knows there is more to it than what Widmore is trying to buy. In reality, Widmore needs to be Bens bestest buddy in the whole wide world, it's gonna be a tough job to persuade him! and changing the rules like this will certainly be a major set back...

Offline Lion of Atreides

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Re: Ben vs Widmore
« Reply #52 on: April 28, 2008, 01:18:01 PM »
Interesting suggestion! I had a cousin who collected Star Wars junk like crazy. Then lost interest in that collection, and moved on to collect military paraphanelia.  Maybe Widmore, too, will just get bored with his Island collection and start collecting muscle cars. Like Jay Leno.

But it doesn't explain the touching bedroom scene where Widmore asserted Ben had taken the island from him, and Ben didn't deny it.  Sorta confirms that the Island was Widmore's, at a time when Ben wasn't critical to his control of the island.  Perhaps Miles is the replacement Widmore found, someone who can commune with the heart of the island but is on his payroll.

And I'm gonna have to disagree with my own theory.  While these two could be each other's constant, it's unlikely.  A more viable explanation is that both Ben and Widmore know what the timeline has in store, and that it can not tolerate a world without either of them.  On the other hand, how to explain the fact that Ben almost died from a tumor, and then from Jack's knife... But he didn't die.  Maybe that, too, was forseen.

Offline Rebel 3:16

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Re: Ben vs Widmore
« Reply #53 on: April 28, 2008, 07:35:20 PM »
The good twin - bad twin made me think - maybe Ben and Widmore are the Yin and Yang, both needed to complete the circle. This could have something to do with Ben stating that he couldnt kill Widmore? (would break the circle/ stability of the Island?)

Offline Lion of Atreides

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Re: Ben vs Widmore
« Reply #54 on: April 28, 2008, 09:22:18 PM »
The good twin - bad twin made me think - maybe Ben and Widmore are the Yin and Yang, both needed to complete the circle.

I likey. Darlton don't seem big into far out Hindu mysticism, but do seem to incorporate such standard fare as Taoism's yin/yang.

Offline lostfan777

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Re: Ben vs Widmore
« Reply #55 on: April 29, 2008, 11:25:01 AM »
I think the consensus is that Widmore was in control of the island via Dharma up until the purge, when Ben took control.

I agree with this, but maybe even a step further.  During their scene, Widmore says to Ben, "That island's mine, Benjamin. It always was. It will be again."  Could he be insinuating that he goes back farther than Dharma?  Are we looking at a possible Richard-like history for Widmore?  This is gonna get interesting!

Offline Lion of Atreides

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Re: Ben vs Widmore
« Reply #56 on: April 29, 2008, 05:38:11 PM »
Or, Widmore could be part of the Hanso clan.  Conversely, it'd be interesting if he's the descendant of the pirate who 'obtained' the log from the Black Rock, or even the pirate himself.  Maybe a deck hand on the Black Rock who got off the Island, but not before securing for himself serious longevity. 

Offline DIZZYBECKSTER

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Re: Ben vs Widmore
« Reply #57 on: April 30, 2008, 07:47:51 AM »
A Q: what did Widmore mean when telling Ben " I KNOW WHO U ARE BOY, I KNOW *WHAT* U ARE " ???

what is Ben? really....a demon?
just a thought.

I think he means the purge and killing that he is a bad bad man

mebbe he's seen the Wizard of Oz and recognised the Wizard...

Offline lostfan777

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Re: Ben vs Widmore
« Reply #58 on: April 30, 2008, 11:26:24 AM »
A Q: what did Widmore mean when telling Ben " I KNOW WHO U ARE BOY, I KNOW *WHAT* U ARE " ???

what is Ben? really....a demon?
just a thought.

I think he means the purge and killing that he is a bad bad man


Is Widmore saying only that Ben is a bad man?  ("A very very bad man!"  *holding fist steady and only waving his pointer finger at him*, for the Seinfeld fans watching!).  I think the 'what you are' comment along with his claim that the island 'always was' his is hinting at an amazing future revelation (there I go, using the word 'revelation' again!.....wink, wink, nudge, nudge...)

Offline laklost

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Re: Ben vs Widmore
« Reply #59 on: April 30, 2008, 11:30:24 AM »
I love the idea that Widmore predates Dharma.  I don't mind the bigger powers like Charles and Ben battling it out - but I am really waiting for the rise of the Losties.  I'm tired of seeing them getting their butts kicked.